Full Stock rifles?

[tcrocker]

I use a Marlin 1895gs love the gun but I was walking out if the woods yesterday and my wife and myself saw a deer about 150 to 200yd out a little farr for this gun so I was thinling of getting a "international" style rifle. I was thinking of a CZ550 FS or a Ruger International, both being a short length 18 to 20 barrel. I am set up for 30-06 now but getting new dies isn't a big deal. So are this guns good for deer / hog lets say out to 200 250 yds? And wold I get good perfoamance form the 30-06 or would a 308win be better in these short barrels? CZ also offers the 550FS in 6.5x55 se,& 9.3x62 these are interesting round too. Eny input would be great:bigsmyl2:

[jhrosier]

Any of the calibers that you mentions would be suited for 200 yard deer hunting. The 7mm08 would also be a good choice.
I have heard that the full stocked rifles are more difficult to bed properly for accuracy than a traditional sporter style. They certainly do look nice though.
I suppose that it would be easy enough to cut off the forestock if it caused problems.

The 9.3x62mm should be an interesting cast boolit gun, similar to the .35 Whelen.

Jack

[largom]

They are beautiful guns. I only have one, a MiniMark Mauser in 223 with a tiger stripe full stock. Just about pulled my hair out trying to keep the stock from putting pressure on the barrel. Even bedded a 1/4 steel rod in the barrel channel. I mostly leave it in the gun safe now.

Larry

[tcrocker]

I'm kind of leaning toward the 9.3x62 it seems like it would be a real thumper.

[waksupi]

They can be finicky, and usually need a goodly amount of pressure up on the forend.

Here's one I built a year or so ago.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=39020&highlight=Mannlicher

[MtGun44]

Waksupi,

Beautiful rifle, even though the details are a bit hard to see in the overall pix.

Bill

[StarMetal]

I've had quite a few mannlichers. Sako solves the problem with an inconspicuous two piece stock. All the Sako mannlichers I've owned shot under an inch easy. The Mark X Mauser I had that was a 7x57 mannlicher shot the same way and it's a totally different system then Sako. My best friends CZ's mannlicher shoot that good too.

Look at the many military rifles that basically can be considered wood to the end of the barrel that shoot good. My Swede for one example and my Yugo 48B for another.

Joe

[dualsport]

I have a CZ 550 FS in 30-06. It was my dream gun and it took a while to get it. I thought hard about which caliber to get, but went with the '06 for practical reasons. It is a thing of beauty inside and out. My best groups so far have been around 1 1/2" at 100 yds. with handloads and j-bullets. It's not the easiest gun to manage on the bench, a little light, full stocked 20.5" barrel, but I didn't get it for a bench gun. The only thing I've killed with it so far was a 200 .lb hog at about 75 yds using discontinued PMC ammo. The pig did a back flip and died where it stood. That's the '06 for ya, it'll do the job out of any good gun. I shoot cast bullets in my CZ a lot and have done alright in several postal matches with it. It has a 1/12" twist which is unusual for an '06, but works out nice for launching heavy cast boolits. The workmanship is awesome. They sure ought to know how to make a good Mauser by now. I've shot 7.62 Nato and .308 Win. in it with a chamber insert that was made for a Garand. Shoots great, definitely my best gun. The moment I shot that pig my nephew shot one right next to it with my other hunting rifle, an 1891 Argentine 7.65 loaded with Hornady factory ammo. That ammo is top notch, believe me. His pig died just as fast as mine. We were in the hills above Bakersfield, California. The hunt was his goin' away present for joining the Army. He's heading for A-stan in two months. Oh, by the way, my CZ has a factory set trigger, very nice option, super light for target, regular for hunting, and it's adjustable. If you send your bolt to CZ-USA they'll jewel it for ya cheap.

[Brithunter]

They are beautiful guns. I only have one, a MiniMark Mauser in 223 with a tiger stripe full stock. Just about pulled my hair out trying to keep the stock from putting pressure on the barrel. Even bedded a 1/4 steel rod in the barrel channel. I mostly leave it in the gun safe now.

Larry


:cry: when will you lot learn that a barrel does nto have to be free floated to shoot well :mad:

To my mind free floating is an accountants cheap fix for production using cheap kiln dried wood :shock: yep it's all about cost cutting and nowt to do with accuracy. Below is a group shot and witnessed at 100 yards on Bisley's Short Siberia range:-

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL14/134492/1350773/36532858.jpg
The rifle is a 30-30 Bolt action udign 130 grain Hornady SP's and H-335 powder using a 6x42 scope. The barrel is tightly inletted, not beddign compund at all just careful hand inletting by a good stocker, woman as it happens did this one :smile:

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL14/134492/1350773/15751697.jpg
No gaps only shadows and yes it gets wet etc during hunting:-

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v166/Brithunter/Sat4thDec2004RoeDoe1.jpg
with a nice Roe Doe

from a different rifle and calibre:-

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v166/Brithunter/BSA%20Hunter/PICT0080-1.jpg
yep I dropped one, .222 Remington chambered BSA Hunter of 1956 vintage and again the barrel is tightly inletted into the stock no bedding compound again and factory original bedding.

Sorry I don't have photos of any groups shot with my full stock rifle but again is as it came from the factory and again the barrel is NOT floated and I won the clubs 600 yards annual shoot two years running with it until they banned the use of scopes in the competition LOL it's a .270 Win chambered rifle with a 20" barrel:-

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v166/Brithunter/BSA%20CF2/StutzenRHS.jpg
BSA CF2 Stutzen with BSA's double sett trigger.

[bcp477]

[QUOTE=Brithunter;759235]:cry: when will you lot learn that a barrel does not have to be free floated to shoot well :mad:

Here, here. I couldn't agree more. It is NOT an issue of whether the barrel is bedded or free-floated.....it is a matter of whether it is set up to shoot best - for THAT particular rifle. Most rifles can be made to shoot full-stocked.... IF set up correctly. Free-floating is touted as the be-all and end-all by those who don't know any better. Sorry, but that is the truth of the matter.

[runfiverun]

no they don't my buddy has a 6.5x55 cz he kept on getting me to buy but it weighed about 14 lbs.
but it sure would shoot itty bitty groups with the full stock.
i passed on it in the shop before he bought it just because it was so heavy.
i don't know where the wood was cut from the tree but it was dense stuff.

[Beekeeper]

Here is a M95 steyr that I bought without a stock and did a complete restock on.

Jim

[StarMetal]

Here is a M95 steyr that I bought without a stock and did a complete restock on.

Jim

Nice job Jim, that's an interesting rifle for sure.

Joe

[358wcf]

I, too, am a long-time lover of the full stocked rifle.
My most recent custom rifle wears a composite Kevlar mannlicher-style stock done by MPI stocks in Oregon. They do fabulous work, and I just about died when I saw they offered a full-stock option.
The rifle is on a Remington 700 short action in 358Win, 20" PacNor barrel, with iron sights, and the cheekpiece on the proper side for a southpaw, such as me. This rifle, fitted with a Leupold 2-7 compact in Leupold QD rings, shoots with every round touching at 100yds. I used the QD rings to carry a spare scope in New Zealand with a small game load and its own Weaver scope zeroed for that load. Lots of flexibility, for sure!
Not sure if I will do any more restocking jobs in what's left of my lifetime, but if I do, they will be full-stock!

358wcf [smilie=1:[smilie=1:[smilie=1:

[pietro]

I am the last person on God's Green Earth to dissuade someone from getting another gun (especially a mannlicher-stocked specimen), but FWIW, 200yds isn't "too far" for a .45-70 - not even your Guide Gun, and doubly so if it carries a low-powered variable scope.

.

[Throwback]

I have a fondness for 'Mannlichers' but I have not owned one by CZ so far. I have owned and shot a few of their rifles however and can find little to fault. I bought a Ruger International for my wife a long time ago and we were quite happy with it. I would have chosen a 7MM-08 or a 260 Remington if such had been available but I went with the .308. Although the .30'06 is my favorite cartridge and can be loaded to any configuration with bullets from 100 to 250 grains we never intended to shoot anything but 150 grain bullets in my wife's rifle. The .308 is more than versitile enough to do well with these and more, and in a rifle of this type there is little to choose from between the two cartidges. Velocities will be virtually identical. The .308 is simply a much better match to the package. It is also among the easiest cartridges to load for. The Ruger shot everything well. It was not a target rifle but it was nevertheless a superb hunter, and very pretty to look at. Most of the time it was shot with start and mid-power reloads.

[tcrocker]

358wcf you got to post a pic!!!!!!!

[Trappererick]

I have two Ruger's with the full length stock one is the MDL 77 RSI and the other is #1 both are chambered for 30/06 and both will shoot. The #1 has a barrel that is two inches longer than the 77RSI but is still shorter in overall length. A real pleasure to carry and I have never found the single shot to be a handicap.

[6pt-sika]

The first Mannlicher I ever had (and still have) was a restocked Mauser 98 of 1916 vintage .This one is still 8x57 and has a peep sight . On the days I'm seeing the target well it will easily shoot in 2 minutes of angle at 100 yards .

The second Mannlicher I had was a Sako with a 24" barrel . had this one almost 35 years ago . It was a 222 REM and shot nicely . Bought it with a old Weaver K6 for $225 . Removed the scope and rings and later sold the rifle for $450 on Shotgun News about a year after I bought it !

Since then I got a Ruger 77RSI tang safety in 308 WIN . This one had what I call an "unstable" trigger . One time you shoot and it's 2 1/2 pounds the next time it may be 3 3/4 pounds . So I put a RifleBasix sear in it and it cured that problem although then the heaviest I could get it was 1 3/4 pounds which was great EXCEPT on really cold days deer hunting . Rifle shot about an inch and a half for 3 shots at 100 yards with my best handload .

I now have a Mannlicher Schoenauer in 8x56MS thats a really nice rifle and a good shooter as well . Although I only shoot it with open sights it still easliy stays at about 2 inches at 100 yards for 3 shots again provided I'm seeing well that day .

In the last six months I picked up a pair of Sako Mannlichers of 60's or 70's vintage one was a 222 like the one I had before but with a 20" barrel this time and a Sako peep sight . The other was a 22-250 again with a Sako peep sight and 20" pipe . Kept those two about a month a piece and rolled them over for a tidy profit although I kinda wish I had kept the little 222 !

Anyway my take on Mannlichers has been they "normally" do not shoot quite as well a sporter stocked rifle . However typically all I'm gonna use a Mannlicher for is to deer hunt and typically inside 200 yards so the utmost accuracy ting can be bent a bit .

Personally I like Mannlichers . The CZ550 is a nice basis for any type rifle having shot quite a few in recent years ! Anything from a 22 Hornet to a 505 Gibbs . The little Remington Model 7 Mannlicher from Remington's Custom Shop is not a bad one either although they are a bit pricey .

I suspect my first two choices wuld be the CZ550MS in 6.5x55 or 9.3x62 . FWIW the recoil from the 9.3x62 is no worse the a 35 Whelen . And anyone who has shot much and isn't overly recoil sensitve should be able to handle with relative ease .

[6pt-sika]

I have two Ruger's with the full length stock one is the MDL 77 RSI and the other is #1 both are chambered for 30/06 and both will shoot. The #1 has a barrel that is two inches longer than the 77RSI but is still shorter in overall length. A real pleasure to carry and I have never found the single shot to be a handicap.

I had a #1RSI in 7x57 get away from me a couple months ago !
Gun had been used and was a slight bit abused . So I kinda turned my nose up at it ! Now I wish I had gone on and made the deal !

Also wish I had purchased a #1A in 7x57 before they stopped making them THIS YEAR !

[phatman]

Hello,

Nice little article on Realguns.com about the CZ 550 FS and the 9.3x62.
Shows the rifle disassembled so you can see the stock inletting and recoil lug areas.
Accurate for him also.

John

[Multigunner]

Any wood used from the 19th century on back to caveman days was seasoned for years, if the item was intended to last more than a few months that is.
The British ran short of properly seasoned timber duringb the Napoleonic wars and the ships they built then seldom lasted a third as long as older ships built with properly seasoned wood.
I forget the exact figures, but the wood had been lain up specifically for ships timbers, they just had too put it to use a few years too soon.

Same pretty much went for military rifle stocks.
The stocks that survive unaltered are usually those made from well seasoned wood. Those that didn't survive unaltered were of less well seasoned wood.
Many a WW1 era rifle was "bought to produce" due to poorly seasoned wood, some were restocked while others were badly rusted below the wood line and reduced to scrap.
Rarely a lower quality stock will season in place, more by luck than design.

many years ago Browning/FN tried rushing the seasoning process, and ended up with stocks contaminated with salts that destroyed many a fine sporting rifle.

If I couldn't be assured that a stock blank was properly seasoned, I'd opt for a laminated stock.
Properly done a laminated stock is unlikely to shift due to atmospheric effects.
Usually heavier though.

I like the looks of Mauser's "Special range rifle" of 1925. They are reissuing it. It blends the best features of the military stock and handguard with the mannlicher style sporter stock. The abreviated tangent sight looks rugged .

[Crash_Corrigan]

I have a CZ 527 FS rifle in .223. It was a pita to find mounts for but now properly wearing a Leopold scope it is a fine weapon. It will shoot j word bullets into less than 1 MOA at 100 and further if the wind is light.

However I have yet been able to get a decent cast load to work in the gun. Even so with the single set trigger and the nice balance I cannot wait to take it out on a coyote hunt.

[stubshaft]

I have a mania for Mannlicher style guns. I have in my collection a SAKO in .338 Mag. If you think that muzzle brakes are noisey try and fire this puppy with full bore loads and it's 18 1/2" barrel. An engraved Krieghoff presented to a german pilot in WWII with double set triggers in 6.5X57mm. A Ruger International in .308. A Steyr mannlicher in 7X57. They are all light and more importantly to me, well balanced, easily carried and accurate.

[lmcollins]

I have always thought that the only way to build a service manlicher stock rifle would be with a laminated stock. You said yours is laminated. Whose blank is it?

[Slogg76]

My CZ 550 FS in 6.5x55 is a sub-MOA rifle when I do my part. It easily out shoots my CZ 550 American premium in 30-06 which wears a standard stock. I think my CZ 550 FS is a bit heavy for what it is, but it balances very well and is quick to the shoulder. Pending funds, I believe I will try and pick up a CZ 550 FS in 9.3x62 next.

[waksupi]

I have always thought that the only way to build a service manlicher stock rifle would be with a laminated stock. You said yours is laminated. Whose blank is it?

I did the lamination on the rifle I linked to here. I was working at Serengeti Rifles when I built mine, and used our accubond equipment to do it.

[dubber123]

My CZ 550 FS in 6.5x55 is a sub-MOA rifle when I do my part. It easily out shoots my CZ 550 American premium in 30-06 which wears a standard stock. I think my CZ 550 FS is a bit heavy for what it is, but it balances very well and is quick to the shoulder. Pending funds, I believe I will try and pick up a CZ 550 FS in 9.3x62 next.

My 550 FS in 6.5X55 is a real shooter too. One in the 9.3 is high on my list also.

[bobthenailer]

in 1976 i built my full stock rifle a ruger short action, with a shilen match barrel in 350 rem mag with a 18 1/2 inch barrel, canjar trigger, and a 4 A fancy walnut stock from fajen and a leupold 1.75 x 6 scope. ive hunted with this rifle every year since and it is a dream to hunt with at 7 1/2 lbs, it will allways shoot a inch to a 1 1/4 group at 100 yards. and it is full length bedded to the end of the stock

[Lloyd Smale]

ive got an international in 250 sav. Its very accurate and does the job on deer at 200 yards with no problem

[MOHunter]

....Is in 30-06 and is very accurate (with in 1 MOA) with 180 gr. Remington PSPs. I have not tried any cast in it yet....http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj50/ratzapper/111410016.jpg

[home in oz]

Nice looking rifle, waksupi....

[tek4260]

Get a CZ 550FS in 9.3x62! Bit more than a 35 Whelen by the way. I think they are more comparable to a 375 H&H. At least that is what all the recent magazine articles will tell you. I have a 30-06 and 9.3x62 in 550FS's. I also have a 222 in a 527FS. Have had them for years and they are all some of the more accurate rifles I own. With the right load any CZ I have seen will touch holes at 100 yards if you are up to it.