246.5gr 303 Brit Hunting Boolit

[303Guy]

I have this very old and rust damaged Lee Enfield which is destined to be rebored to 375/303 (38 Hawkins). But for now it is to be my rainy weather pig gun. I have a mold that casts a 246.5gr boolit with a large meplat. I made a hollow point casting device for it and compared the two castings.

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-434F.jpg

Left - 208gr HP. Centre - 230gr HP. Right - 246.5gr FP.
The 208grainer is for comparison only.

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-436F.jpg

Centre boolit with recovered rim fragment - 203gr 88% weight retention.
Right Boolit with only piece of recovered patch - 245.7gr 99.7% weight retention.

Both boolits were patched and fired at the same velocity more or less. The heavier boolit was given more powder after the first comparison produced so little expansion and such penetration that the evidence was destroyed at the bottom of the wet sand pot!

The hollow point opened up immediately and left the rim fragments in the top layer of medium - together with evidence of rapid expansion. The flat point opened up much slower but kept its weight and penetrated less.

I think both samples were subsonic.

[leadman]

I bet even a low velocities theses bolits would still do in the pig very well.

Tell me more of this 38 Hawkins. I have a Savage built 2 groove Enfield with a slightly pitted barrel that might benefit from this.

[Bullshop Junior]

What is with the plating?

[swheeler]

Junior I think it is just reflected light.

[Jack Stanley]

Even the big hogs better watch themselves with that load in the woods .

Jack

[longbow]

303guy:

You have likely posted this info elsewhere but if you wouldn't mind, what diameter boolit and what paper thickness are you using?

Thanks,
Longbow

[longbow]

I guess I should ask for bore and groove diameters too!

Thanks,
Longbow

[303Guy]

No plating, just reflected light. Camera auto color actually - not too good.

The 38 Hawkins is a certain Mr Hawkins of NZ's rendition of the 375/303 Brit. It seems to be a brilliant compromize between big bore for cast or PP without the recoil of the 45-70 and the Lee Enfield is just made for it! It's a bit more powerful than the 375 Win (Quite a bit actually).
I shall put together what I know of it. Just give me a few days or more.
My two-groove has a fair amount of rust damage but accuracy after crowning and fire-lapping with J-words is very good. Excellent choice for a 38 Hawkins. Safe chamber pressure is 47,000 CUP! (Actually, the No4 can take 7.62 NATO pressures!)

38 Hawkins from JeffnNZ.
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/JeffinNZcartridges-1.jpg

My seriously rust damaged 303 MkI* has an indeterminable bore and groove due to the rust and the fact that it is now tapered. I can measure the casting and boolit that chambers.

Patched boolit at throat entry and bore .3169" & .3106"

This is the muzzle before chopping and after crowning and fire-lapping.
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-445F.jpg

And that's the end with more rifling!

Recovered patch and core at very low velocity.
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-117F.jpg

[303Guy]

More 38 Hawkins pics.

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/375-303.jpg

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/38-303.jpg

The 'dough-nut' is removed during forming by a draw plug while the case is still in the forming die.
The case taper is unaltered.

[swheeler]

303 looks to me like maybe 38 Hogkins would be a good name for it. Something similar on a MN and the Rooski case sounds interesting too. What twist do you have picked out for the rebore/rerifle job? I've got a mold you might be interested in, I know you like the heavy weights.

[Bullshop Junior]

Ok I see, it is a PP mold right? No lube grooves.
I don't do much with PP, so it looked odd to me.

[303Guy]

Not sure what twist to select. Prolly go with whatever the 375 Winchester uses.

Yup, paper patched. No ways a plain cast would get through that bore without slipping the rifling and leading it up - I think? Darn! Now I'll have to go and try it!:mrgreen:

I was surprized at how stable the 246.5 grainer was at quite low speed. I had a shot do a penetration of some rags, deflect off a piece of wood and stop in a piece of foam - nose first! it doesn't flip over or anything in the rag catch medium of my test tube. The faster, expanded boolit penetrates less.

I would say that my test boolits shown are way too soft. I've hardened the alloy some and will try again.

I'm getting interested in using the same heavy boolit (with some sizing) in my good bore, full length MkI* (new barrel) for low noise, low recoil hunting and shooting out to 100yds, the same as a 22LR. (And fun!)

[303Guy]

... what paper thickness are you using?Lined notepad paper of .0028" thickness. The paper I like best is 'Croxley'. It has self bonding and good wetting properties.

[swheeler]

When you get the barrel rebored have it throated out so you can use powder space, 1:16 twist should be fine. 372 grains bare bottomed. casts .378" out of WW, .2 meplat, 1.313" long. Should take care of porky just fine!

[Multigunner]

Safe chamber pressure is 47,000 CUP! (Actually, the No4 can take 7.62 NATO pressures!)


Not always safe to generalize. The No.4 rifles converted to 7.62 were reproofed at first 19 LT then later reproofed again at 20 LT due to concerns over use of bullets weighing more than 144 grains.
Assuming that every No.4 could pass reproof at those levels the M118 Long Range Special Ball generates significantly higher pressures than the M80 Ball and equivalent, and max acceptable pressure for the Special Ball far exceeds the 20 LT safety margin.

Most No.4 actions in good condition should be able to handle M80 Ball, which generates 48,000 CUP, but some may not handle it without excessive stress.

SAAMI specs for the .303 is 45,000 CUP or 48,000 PSI.
47,000 CUP is probably not going to be a problem, figures being rounded to the nearest K, the .303 MkVII actually generating 45,400 CUP.

I like the looks of that .375/.38 cartridge.

[303Guy]

Not always safe to generalize.Quite so. I was actually only emphasizing the fact that the No4 is plenty strong for any PP or cast boolit one might want to throw at it. There is actually no reason to overstress our rather precious brass! I'll be keeping mine to below 42 K CUP. The No4 might well comfortably handle 45 K CUP without stressing brass (and therefore give almost indefinate brass life - which is my criteria). Besides, just how much oomph does a 372gr hefty need? It's not gonna be no slouch!:mrgreen:

In fact, how much oomph does a .314, 246.5gr flat and soft point torpedo need?

I'm thinking that my piggy gun only needs a reach of 50yds and 700fps would be fine for that and the test boolit was probably no faster than that - more likely slower.

By now I am going to need a chonograph.[smilie=1:


When you get the barrel rebored have it throated out so you can use powder space,Oh yes! That was my plan. The mag can handle 3 inches so no need to seat the boolit deep! But then again, such a powder volume would be capable of actually hurting my shoulder!:mrgreen:
But I shall be fitting a suppressor anyway.

I'm thinking that 375/38 Hawkins is going to be a heap of fun!

(No mag or any other mods needed and the mag will still hold its full 10 round quota! I think?)

[swheeler]

Full magazine and you're packin more than 1/2 pound of lead, go big or go home!

[45-70 Chevroner]

With the tapered magazine of the 303 I'm not sure you will be able to get more than 8 rounds in the mag. ie the difference of a .313 + or- as apposed to the .377, that is .064" per bullet wider at the nose which is a total of 0.64" or a little over a 1/2 inch. That is unless there is more room than I remember in the magazine. Even if it only holds 8 or 9 rounds it would still be a great pig slayer. I really do like large slow calibers, as my forum name indicates. I would like to have a 45-70 made on the 303 action by Gibbs I think was the name. I had an oppertunity about 15 years ago to get one for about $200 but was low on cash at the time. So much for wishing.