Info on a Mauser 71/84

[lathesmith]

Any of you guys ever messed with a Mauser 71/84? I found one for sale locally, it appears in great shape, and to me it's a very interesting rifle. I was kinda wondering mainly about value, and any "hints n kinks" that you military rifle buffs might be able to chip in.

Thanks,
lathesmith

[Bullshop]

I cant help with the things you want to know I can only say that they shoot really good!
Well maybe one more thing, just the quality of craftmenship you would expect from the place and time. Think smokless 44/77 Sharps.
BIC/BS

[jhrosier]

I had both a 71/84 and a 71 carbine back in the day.
They were both fun to shoot and relatively accurate.
The price of .43 Mauser brass will take your breath away though.

Jack

[Beekeeper]

Lathesmith,
I have one and am in the middle of building another.
They are great historical rifles and have a considerable following.
You can buy a complete rifle built specifically for the movie "The Last Samuri" from OWS for 5-6 hundred dollars so kind of let that be your guide
Mine ,I started with barreled actions, spent 2 years rounding up enough parts and another 6 months scratch building a stock from looking at pictures.
Discounting my time I reacon mine is worth $350 tops as it isn't numbers matching.
They are a great rifle to shoot with black or smokeless.
Brass could be had from Grafs when I built my first one for about $2.00 each for bertram brass . Might be less now.
Check out the pics at OWS and let them be your guide.

Jim

[NickSS]

I have one that was sporterized a long time ago The barrel was shortened and so was the magazine tube. It works great and shoots great too. I had to get a new extractor for it but Gun Parts had the part. I got brass from BACO for around $1 per each. It was made from some other brass (unidentifyed) but they work fine. I love the look on peoples faces when I take out the ammo as it is impressive looking and even more fun to shoot.

[haak48]

As you have already heard, these are well made guns. Values for one of the mint examples that still remain out there are probably over $1000 now with shooter grade guns starting in the $200 range. The RCBS .446 bullet is probably the best one avalible right now. As to die sets, the current Lee will work those pricey cases the least and appears to be the closest to original diamentions. I use 4759 in mine with no fillers but I am sure other powders would be just fine. A word of caution about the cartridge lifter. It can become broken if improperly engaged. Close the bolt before moving the selector. Because they are often broken, these particular parts can be hard to find for just that reason. I shoot mine enough that I had you make a die for my Star L/S in .4460, which by the way, works perfectly. JH

[StrawHat]

I can't help you with value but others have chimed in. I can help you with loading it.

Here is a thread on this forum

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=5007

And this is a good article on the rifle and loads for it.

http://www.riflemagazine.com/magazine/article.cfm?magid=56&tocid=750

Good luck and please keep us in the loop.

[looseprojectile]

I have a near perfect museum quality 71/84. I have been collecting all the available brass and cartridges for it for years and there are no more to be had locally. I now have about 160 cases and cartridges. CIL/ Dominion are good.
I would hesitate to accept two thousand dollars for my gun.
The first time my gun was fired my shooting partner shot five shots into less than an inch and a half at one hundred yards with CIL factory loads. Took one apart and they look like they are loaded with SR 4759. They had to be at least forty or fifty years old. I have the RCBS mould and they shoot good as any. I have never used black powder as there are too many nooks and crannies to clean. If you get the gun I would be able to help with smokeless loads for it.
And the bolt has to be all the way back with the lifter up to move the cut off lever.
Don't force it.
Hope you get it. These old Mausers are a hoot to have and shoot and they are beautiful works of art.

Life is good

[lathesmith]

Guys, thanks for all the great responses, I appreciate it. If there's one thing I won't own--for long, anyway--it's a gun I can't shoot. I see from your collective experience that I don't have anything to worry about there. I am definitely interested in that rifle, and will go and see if it is still available.

I understand that the original ammo is collector item stuff, and priced such. This almost put me off, thinking I wouldn't be able to shoot this thing. However, from some research I have done, it seems that cases for these guns can easily be formed from 348 Winchester brass, or even 45-70 or 45-90 with just a small amount of lathe work. Hmmm, a lathe, you say? I've got one of those, and can use it pretty good...

I'll let the local guys continue to think that the ammo for this rifle is impossible to get, I think it might help in negotiations....

Thanks again,
lathesmith

[doug strong]

I have several of thes in restoration progress and as of this evening I have one ready to shoot. The rest are on thier way to workability. I can hardlywait to take min out for a test drive.

[arclight]

I bought a "trashed" condition 71/84 from SOG a few years ago for $250. It had a good bore, and was missing a couple of small parts, in addtion to being rusty and nasty. I got it together into nice shooting form using:

-Brass from Buffalo Arms (sometimes they have factory cases, otherwise they use a series of custom-made dies to form it from 348 Win brass. This is NOT an easy process, as the case head has to get squeezed down or turned, as well as the rim needing modification).

-Dies from Lee (cheap 2 die set)

-Lyman 446 mould and sizer. Unfortunately, these rifles were originally designed for paper-patched bullets. Some (like mine) will have difficulty chambering a case with a .446 slug in some brass, so you may need to size smaller or load PP bullets sized to around .440. This is what I do.

-Used Swedish Mauser slings are a good fit.

I have seen "mint" condition 71/84s imported from Canada going for >$1K and the parts guns for <$100. I would think $300-500 would be a fair price for one in basic shootable condition.

Arclight

[leadman]

I have some berdan cases, some berdan primers, and an old Lyman mold a friend of mine sent to me from Texas.

Have not seen any guns for sale though. Maybe someday.

[TAWILDCATT]

I had a carbine back before WW2 and got cart. in Trinadad in 1944.have one case left,shot the other 19 marked 1887.now have one with half stock and one action.I think you can use 45/90.I did size 45/70 but they are short.I would go that way as 348 get worked to much. starline has 45/90 brass.

[Multigunner]

Some of these were refinished in a large lot to equip the government troops in the film the Last Samurai.
Don't know any details on these but some rifles were sold to the public after the film was finished, so I'd check closely any of these that looked too good for their age.

The rifles still show up in afghan and tribal region arms caches'. Saw photos of truckloads of these awhile back, most cut down short enough to fit under a coat.

[leadman]

I bought a mod71 yesterday in very good overall condition with an excellent bore from a gun shop for $275.00.

Gotta order brass, dies, expander to start loading.

[danyboy]

Bought mine in 2000, got a Lyman 346gr bullet mold, Buffalo arms cases and been shooting it ever since. Everytime I use it at the range, people stop shooting and come aver to watch this old relica.
I recently managed to fit a B-Square scope mount where instead of the rear leaf sight so I don't have to drill any hole. Expecting my Long Eye Relief scope soon and can't wait to try it out at the range.
My uncle said he killed his first moose with one of them; it apparently dropped, never moved away.
I get a kick at casting and reloading other calibers as well but there is something about this old 71/84 that drives me on.
danyboy

[excess650]

I have a cut down 71/84 with great bore, but have only shot it with BP. I have both CIL balloonhead cases, and Bertram solidhead cases. I don't recall exactly what the groove diameter was on the 71/84 but it was in excess of .450" and it will just barely chamber a groove diameter bullet. I had a PP mold made that casts .435" and I patch it up to groove diameter. Bore size is real close to .435".

I also have a sporterized '71. I've never seen another like it, and I think it started out in life as a '71 carbine. It has DST, PG stock with cheekpiece, checkering, horn schnabble, and horn filler behind the trigger guard. http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=22949&stc=1&d=1276738138

The '71 has a groove diameter close to .456 and will not chamber a round with groove diameter bullet. I recall .451" or so is as large as would fit, but with a grease cookie sandwich under a PP soft bullet, it isn't a problem.

[danyboy]

Man o man o man ! What a nice sportster you got there. Do I see 2 triggers on it or what ?
What did you mean by 'balloonhead CIL cases', PG stock, DST, and horn schnabble ?
I just got into the world of outside neck turning which helps me use slightly larger diameter bullet by making the case neck thinner of .002-.004", multiplied by 2 would give you an extra .004-.008" at the chamber neck. You could probably use muzzle loading bullets.

[excess650]

Man o man o man ! What a nice sportster you got there. Do I see 2 triggers on it or what ?
What did you mean by 'balloonhead CIL cases', PG stock, DST, and horn schnabble ?

DST means double set triggers. PG refers to pistolgrip stock. "Horn schnabble" -instead of a contrasting wood forend tip, this forend has a horn overlay. There is also a filler/spacer behind the trigger guard made from horn.

Balloonhead cases were formed from thin brass, and the primer pocket protrudes into the powder space, so the heads are as thin as the case walls. They're safe enough for blackpowder (BP) but I wouldn't use 'em for smokeless.


"I just got into the world of outside neck turning which helps me use slightly larger diameter bullet by making the case neck thinner of .002-.004", multiplied by 2 would give you an extra .004-.008" at the chamber neck. You could probably use muzzle loading bullets."

I have a smooth sided mold that casts a suitable bullet for paper patching as the original military ammo was. With BP, the bullet can be undersize, sometimes as small as BORE diameter, and be expected to bump up to fill the rifling. The card overpowder wad and grease cookie help seal off the powder gas, and helps keep the fouling soft.

[danyboy]

Thanks for the acronym explanations. you're way ahead of me reloading wise. I never reloaded with BP not PP bullets but I also found out this was the way this rifle was meant to be.
May be one day I'll get into paper patching and black powder. Actually, I am waiting for a machinist to cut me a mold for 32RF heeled bullets and I will try reloading this caliber with the H&C collection reloading kit with BP. I am not too keen on using BP because of gun and cases cleaning cause I heard it's a bit more messy but I'll learn.
Regards,
Danyboy

[leadman]

I bought the brass from Grafs, about $2.90 a case, use the Lyman .446" boolit with 21grs of 2400.
My bore is large but if I seat just the base band in the case it will shoot about 3 to 4" at 200 yards.
Tried seating to the first driving band to make the bolit more stable in the case and lost 200 fps and doubled the group size.

[danyboy]

Did a chamber cast on mine:
chamber neck size: .467"
Bore slugs at .435", .4475"
case neck wall thickness is .013"
chamber size right outside the case neck line (where bullet starts) is .452"
I don't even know I managed to chamber a .446" bullet with a case neck .013" thick (.446+ (.013x2)=.472").
Now with this chamber cast, I am in a decision mode wether I will outside neck turn my cases to make room for a larger bullet.
If I used a .452" bullet, I'd have to neck turn cases from .013" to .0075".

[leadman]

I took a .452" Lee 300 gr. revolver boolit and tried it in the throeat of my 71. It enters the throat far enough that if I trimmed a case about .025" I could set the gas check shank portion of the boolit (without check) in the case and the bolt should close. Hope to try this soon.

For now I use the Lyman boolit and seat just the base band of the boolit in the case. The boolit is lubed with Carnuba Red in a .450" sizer die. This does not size the boolit but leave a layer of lube on the outside of the driving bands.
One has to be careful with the cartridge as the boolit can be tipped easily. The accuracy is very good at 3 to 5" consistently at 200 yards. Once in a while I get the slightest amount of leading but not really an issue.

From a guy that shoots Shutzen? he suggested I make a fixture to load the boolit further into the throat then just load the charged case behind it. Might try that also.