GB Ideal 454190 J.W. Cusey 6 cavity Lee results

[opentop]

Santa Claus showed up on my door today. I found 2 Big Boxes from LEE. And guess what was inside………. Our 454190 Group buy moulds!

Now when we started the group buy, Lee was quoting 12 months to make them. LEE delivered in just a hair less than 8 months.

I picked one mould at random from one of the boxes. Quality looked good, cavities look nice and smooth with no tool marks visible.

I cleaned it, smoked the cavities, and installed a set of handles. I then fired up the pot and set the mould on the hot plate. Once the melt was up to temp, I started pouring. It only took 2 pours to get the bases filled out on all six cavities, at which time I applied bull Plate lube.

This mould likes to run hot producing frosty boolits. I tried lowering the temp on my LEE 4-20, but started having problems with the bases filling out completely, so I turned the heat back up.

Problems can be expected from new moulds until you figure out their little quirks. I didn’t see any problems that I won’t be able to figure out once it gets broke in.

I selected 10 boolits from the pile and miced them, All 10 of them were out of round by .002 .455 and .457 Respectively, which puts this mould within spec.

Over all I am pleased with the job lee did with this mould.

The current Layman 454190 is on the left in the picturs.

[lathesmith]

All 10 of them were out of round by .002 .455 and .457 Respectively, which puts this mould within spec.

Oh boy, a nice FAT 45 mold, with 2 generous lube grooves. I've got a couple of 45 Colts that oughta like this one! That's great!
lathesmith

[Dale53]

Opentop;
That's a GOOD report. Sounds like you have a really nice mould.

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to all!

Dale53

[j20owner]

Opentop, can you find the small one and send it to me? [smilie=l:

I really don't need one that big, but I guess I can try it and see what happens. If it works OK, I can hollowpoint the SC Lyman 454190 I have.


Oh, BTW, :lovebooli

[badgeredd]

Opentop,

You could have knocked me over with a wet noodle when I saw this. Glad things worked for us this time. Looking forward to some serious casting for the Colt & Rugers. I have been thinking I will try these in my 625 Smith as well as the 1917 S&W. Thanks for running this GB.

Edd

[Dean D.]

Opentop, you could not have given me a more perfect surprise Christmas present than your latest post! I am really looking forward to my new mould and finally retiring the old Lyman tong tool. Those boolits you cast look awesome to me!

"Yes Virginia, there IS a Santa Claus!"

Merry Christmas to you and a huge thank you again for honcho'in this GB.

Sincerely, Dean D.

[Gee_Wizz01]

Nice looking boolits! How much do they weigh? I can't wait to cast some up. This is a great Christmas surprise. Thanks Opentop.

G

[opentop]

Tom Myers calculated the weight to be 262.8 with WW alloy. Here are the numbers from 10 bullets selected at random. Keep in mind that I was playing around with temp setting on my pot as I was casting, so once a cretin temp is achieved, I think They will be more consistent. Alloy was WW, Weighed on my RCBS 5-0-2 scale

262.4
262.6
262.7
262.7
262.9
263.0
263.3
263.3
263.6
264.0

I loaded some over 5 Grs of Red Dot for our indoor rage. I’m more than sure most here can get better accuracy than I can. They were shot from an Uberti SAA with 5.5 barrel at a distance of 50 feet.

[opentop]

Please bear with me on shipping. They came in on the holidays and I am working over time all next week which means the post office is closed on my way to work and on my way home from work. Plus I need to transfer the shipping money into the account I use for USPS click n ship.

I shipped a few molds out this morning, and will start shipping a few at a time as best I can coordinate getting them to the post office.

[John Boy]

:holysheep:-D:drinks:[smilie=w:
Like a 'little kid' on Christmas Morning! Good times are coming at the pot.
BTW opentop, John Boy is on the list under 'C' ;-)
Do want to Thank You Kindly for all the work needed with this Group Buy. Doing one is Work! The re-make of the Ideal 375166 took me close to TWO YEARS!

[Gee_Wizz01]

Please bear with me on shipping. They came in on the holidays and I am working over time all next week which means the post office is closed on my way to work and on my way home from work. Plus I need to transfer the shipping money into the account I use for USPS click n ship.

I shipped a few molds out this morning, and will start shipping a few at a time as best I can coordinate getting them to the post office.

Opentop, I fully understand, your job takes precedence! I didn't expect to get my mold until April or May of next year when I ordered it, and few more weeks is not a problem. I appreciate all of your work to make this happen. Thanks

Gary

[Gee_Wizz01]

Tom Myers calculated the weight to be 262.8 with WW alloy. Here are the numbers from 10 bullets selected at random. Keep in mind that I was playing around with temp setting on my pot as I was casting, so once a cretin temp is achieved, I think They will be more consistent. Alloy was WW, Weighed on my RCBS 5-0-2 scale

262.4
262.6
262.7
262.7
262.9
263.0
263.3
263.3
263.6
264.0



Thats exactly what I was hoping for. I was looking for a bullet weighing between 260 to 265gr and this looks like it fills the bill perfectly.

G

[Dean D.]

I have to agree with what John and Gary have said. Any time before April is just a bonus!

[opentop]

A few more molds are being shipped in the morning. The ramaning molds will go out Thursday morning.

[j20owner]

Opentop, thanks again for your 'Honchoing' and work on this mold. Looking forward to trying my first 6-cav Lee.

[Dale53]

I was at the range with Opentop and had a look at some of the bullets cast from his mould. These are excellent bullets and the mould (I looked at a sample) is absolutely first rate - I didn't cast with it, but the surface finish of the cavities is excellent.

I think you fellows who have one coming have a WINNER!

Dale53

[ddeaton]

I was there also, and it looks like Lee might finally be getting back in the game. Good job Opentop:Fire:

[Springfield]

I just received mine and I opened it up to take a look. Went and got a 454190 square lube groove bullet I had cast with my antique Ideal mould/reloading tool. Dropped it into the LEE mould to see how it compared and Holy ****! It dropped right in like it was cast from this mould. The base even lined up perfectly. Everyone involved did a hell of a good job on this, from the designer to the maker.

[Dean D.]

My mould arrived safely today! Thank you Santa John!!! [smilie=w: :mrgreen:

[opentop]

I just received mine and I opened it up to take a look. Went and got a 454190 square lube groove bullet I had cast with my antique Ideal mould/reloading tool. Dropped it into the LEE mould to see how it compared and Holy ****! It dropped right in like it was cast from this mould. The base even lined up perfectly. Everyone involved did a hell of a good job on this, from the designer to the maker.

I must admit, I was a little worried as the new Lee 454190 was a little longer than the current offering from Lyman, then I remembered Springfield measured his old Ideal tong tool.

I want to thank Springfield and Tom Myers for their role in this group buy. Springfield gave us accurate measurements and Tom for his outstanding blue prints!

I just finished printing shipping labels for the remaining molds that have not been mailed and they will go to the post office Thursday morning.

[madcaster]

I'm a late buyer on one,PM sent!:coffeecom

[lathesmith]

Mine arrived today John, thanks a bunch for running this one, and others for their input. The molds look great, I look forward to trying them out!
lathesmith

[oldelm]

PM sent also...thanks!

[badgeredd]

Mine came today...what a welcome sight!!!! It is a very good looking mold, in fact I think the machining looks better tan any other 6 cavity Lee mold I have. Thanks again for running this GB.

Edd

[j20owner]

Mine arrived today. Zip code 64117. Gonna take it to work to install a set-screw for the cam and to clean it. Then I'm going to cast with it tonight. Can't wait!

[Gee_Wizz01]

Hooray, mine showed up today! Zip code 32226. Its in the pot right now getting degreased. If SWMBO doesn't have plans for me tonight, I am going to fire up the old Lee pot! This baby should go through 20lbs of wheel weights in short order! I also received my NOE 225-55gr and haven't had a chance to try it out either.

G

[opentop]

All remaining molds have been shipped this morning.

[John Boy]

John, my mold arrived yesterday - Thanks Kindly!
When I opened the USPS box, noticed on the edge of the Lee mold box, the words: Commercial Quality! I didn't know that Lee made 2 levels of molds, but sure am happy with the mold. The cavities are perfect, mirror bright with no chatter marks.

This morning, I took all the screws out of the mold and looked it over, primarily looking for high edges. Found some, so took a fine diamond stone and did the following:
* Stoned the bottom of the sprue plate on the edges and over the sprue holes
* There was a small ridge on the top outer edge of each mold half - so I stoned them off and then beveled the top edges
* On the bottom of the rocker handle, there was a small ridge, so I stoned that too
Adjusted the tension sprue screw so the sprue plate swung freely and then adjusted the 'locking' screw' for the sprue plate so it was flush with the top of mold halves with no wiggle

Dumped 20#'s of Bhn 15.3 ingots into the pot, warmed the mold with hot water and then scrubbed it clean with Micro-90, 5% solution. Dried it and waited for the pot temperature to reach 700 F - fluxed the melt 2x with Borax - warmed the mold and proceeded to cast 18# 10oz of gorgeous bullets, about 470

I was casting fast and varying the melt temperature to see where the ideal casting temperature would be: 730 F down to 660 F. Found that the mold cast nicely at 680 F ... shiny bullets - no WHACKS needed, just several light taps and the bullets dropped out like pachinko balls falling in the machine! Regardless of the temperature, the bullets fell freely from the mold with just a couple of light taps
The weights varied between 268.6gr to 270.8grs because of me, varying the temperature during casting. Not an issue, because they will be used as cast for CAS. I culled out 100 that were 269 with 0.5gr variance that I will use in my levers for our 50-100-200yd club matches and then ran them through the Lee Sizer using the 454 die.

Final steps will be to pan lube them 100 at a time using a homemade lube that is the '1st Cousin' or could be the SPG formulation and then cast another 20 lbs of bullets.

Have to say - I really had fun with this casting session: great bullets and not having to wrestling with the mold to make it work

[Gee_Wizz01]

John Boy
Did you check the diameters of the boolits? I just ran cast about 15 lbs and they are beautiful, but they are a little large running at .459 - .460, cast out of WW with about 1 lb of LT added. The bright side is that they may work well in my 45-70.

G

[opentop]

but they are a little large running at .459 - .460, cast out of WW with about 1 lb of LT added.

That’s out of spec. Should not go more than .458. I wonder if they would drop smaller with out the LT added?

I just cast 20 pounds out of 50pb/50ww alloy and they are still dropping at .455/.457 with the weight jumping up about 4-5 grains.

I varied the temp on my Lee pot looking for the sweet spot. I found it with the setting on 6.5 getting shiny bullets with good fill out.

I sorted out 10 frosty bullets and 10 shiny bullets and ran them across the scale.

The frosty bullets ran a high of 267.7 and a low of 266.1. Most of them ran around 267.2

The shinny bullets ran a high of 268.4 and a low of 267.9

[j20owner]

I need a bigger pot.......

[Gee_Wizz01]

Opentop

I am going to try just plain WW tomorrow if the weather and SWMBO cooperate. I normally use just WW, but I had added the LT to the pot to get good fill on my .243 mold. I was just examining some of the boolits under a magnifier and I noticed I also have some mold misalignment. I got out my micrometer and measured a few degrees off of the parting line and the diameter was .4576 the measurements perpendicular to the parting line was .4617. Before I cast, I inspected the mold and found the same issue John Boy had with a ridge at the top of the mold. I use an xtra fine diamond hone to take the ridge off and slightly bevel the edge. When I get back to work on Monday, I will take a look at the mold under the Stereo Microscope to see if there is still a little ridge or some burrs I missed. I am not sure how to address the misalignment, I have never had that issue before. If I get a chance tomorrow I will also put another set of handles to see if that alleviates the misalignment.

G

[Springfield]

As long as the mis-alignment makes bullets larger than you are going to size them then it won't make a difference. My bullets are dropping at .456-.457 with soft BP alloy, about 10 Brinell. I always use my 10 power loupe and clean the slight burrs off the right side of the cavities on both mould halves. I can only surmise that this is the exit direction of the cutter LEE uses. Even my NOE mould had a slight burr here. File the leading edge of the sprue plate, peen the alignment pins in place and the mould works great.

[John Boy]

Did you check the diameters of the boolits?
G, yes I did check the base diameters. Using the Lyman #2 with some Bhn 15.3 WW ingots thrown in, they all measured 455 - 456. So, I spent the better part of the afternoon running 18+ lbs naked through the Lee lube/sizer. Their now 454's! :smile:

I use the Lyman 454190's shooting CAS with BP and WW alloy. All my handguns have the cylinders throated out to 4545, so these bullets will work just fine for me

I didn't check the cavity cuts for burrs. Since the bullets were dropping like 'pachinko balls' I figured there were no burrs. I'll take a look though just to be sure. As for your misalignment, put a square on the top halves of the mold while it's closed. I was having some galling on the opposite mold half across from where the sprue plate lock screw is. So I stopped casting and diamond stoned the top of both halves. Plus when I unscrewed the lock screw, there was lead under the washer. I figured this too could have added to the galling putting more pressure on the opposite mold half ... and both these items could be the reason for your misalignment. IMHO - the wide washers have to go! They collect too much lead under the them during the pours

[Springfield]

My moulds didn't have any wide washers on them, just some crappy wave washers that don't really do anything. Once the pivotscrew breaks loose and refuses to stay tight, like they all do sooner or later, I will fix it with a larger pivot bolt and a larger washer to help support the sprue plate. For now it works well enough.

[John Boy]

G, went to the basement looking for cavity burrs - None. What I did find though was that the handle bolt was too loose and had some wiggle. So, I tightened it. The mold halves now close in pefect alignment with the pins. In addition, the sprue plate slides under the washer on the sprue plate locking screw with no 'binding' what so ever. Also ran a steel across the tops of the mold halves - couldn't see any daylight under the steel edge. Believe the mold is good as it is going to get with the fine tuning. Overall, I'll give John Lee a :drinks: for this mold

[larry h]

opentop - My mould came in the mail today. This weekend I will check it closer for burrs and rough edges, and cast some boolits. Thanks for ram rodding this group buy.
R/Larry -92345-

[mtgrs737]

Got my two moulds today! Can't wait to take em for a spin.

Thanks for running this GB!

[Tabaquero]

Got mine yesterday! Can't wait to try them out.

[BoolitBill]

Opentop, I got mine today (79925), I would like to thank you for being the Honcho on this GB and for making this possible.

[Mohillbilly]

looks real good for a Lee, Thank You Opentop ! 63010

[denul]

I pm'd you about this, but thanks here also. Looks good.

[Coconino]

Thanks Opentop for running this GB.

I cast about 150 using a 20:1 alloy in the Lee 4-20, they dropped easily. Better than the other Lee moulds I have. I tried the kroil treatment on this die and after about 3 pours, was getting shiny bullets. The bullets are running large though (as cast .4575-4580"), or at least too large to size with the Lathesmith .454 die. Had to punch out the two bullets that would not go through without probably bending the handle on the Star.

The 20:1 alloy is the one I use for most revolver shooting. Made 750 of the .44 Biglube bullets from the same batch and they were about the same as cast size(+/- .001) as previous batches.

Do I have to go to a softer alloy to get this mould to work?

[j20owner]

Coconino, in casting with straight clip-on wheel weight metal, mine measure about the same. I believe opentop is using a star sizer and actually sizing to .452".

[opentop]

They wrere speced to drop no smaller than .455 with WW alloy. Even at .458, they are within spec acording to LEE. Mine are droping at .455-.457. I am sizing down to .452 with a Star and am having no problems.

[Coconino]

So if the bullets are casting to the right size and the sizer measures .454" not sure why they are so stubborn going through the sizer. It took considerable force to get a bullet to go in flush with the top of the die and figured something must be wrong. Tapped it back out and it did size the upper band to .454.

Maybe I need the big plow handle folks talk about for the Star.

[j20owner]

FWIW, I'm sizing with a Lyman 45 and I don't care for how these boolits look after sizing base first. I think I'm going to size with a Lee push-through and then lube with the Lyman.

Also cast with it again today, and I still need a bigger pot. 10lb goes fast when you use a 6-cav mold.[smilie=l:

[opentop]

So if the bullets are casting to the right size and the sizer measures .454" not sure why they are so stubborn going through the sizer. It took considerable force to get a bullet to go in flush with the top of the die and figured something must be wrong. Tapped it back out and it did size the upper band to .454.

Maybe I need the big plow handle folks talk about for the Star.

I just got a new sizing die from lathesmith today just for that bullet. I put it in the star, pulled the handle down, and ut oh, the bullet got stuck. I forced it on through the star and bent my handle. I applied some RCBS case lube (it didn’t take much, just a drop smeared around with my fingers) to the next bullet and it went right through. Once I got going, I ran a lubed bullet through about every sixth time when I started to feel it pushing hard. So I suspect once you get a good lubed bullet through it, it should start running smoother.

[opentop]

FWIW, I'm sizing with a Lyman 45 and I don't care for how these boolits look after sizing base first. I think I'm going to size with a Lee push-through and then lube with the Lyman.

Also cast with it again today, and I still need a bigger pot. 10lb goes fast when you use a 6-cav mold.

Yes, I agree, give the lee push through a try and lube with the lyman. They look so much better when nose first sized.

This mold with go through 10 Ibs in no time!

[Coconino]

Opentop, I replied to the PM. A little Dillon case lube on the first few boolits and the die works fine. Glad I did not bend my Star handle:p

Using the 20:1 alloy and a .454 Lathesmith die, my boolits sized to .4535 to .454". Weight about 268 gr. Looking to try in the Colt and USFA SAA with larger chamber mouths.

Of course we have a foot of new snow and 2-3 feet more expected by Friday so I won't be testing this load for a while.