M1903...? Help/Suggestions?

[ke7chv]

I inherited what I believe to be a M1903A1. The original wooden stock has been cut-off 5 3/4" forward of the rear sight. I would like to refit it with a full wooden stock. I am new to rifles in general, I don't know if I have an A1 or an A3, I don't know what stocks will fit my rifle, I'm just looking for advice. Here are some pictures of the rifle, and the remaining portions of the upper attachments/sling swivel.

[Clearly I wasn't paying attention, and posted in the wrong section. Bear with me while I attempt to remove this post.]

[Dutchman]

Show the markings up by the front sight on the barrel and the markings, all of them including the serial number, on the receiver ring.

From the rear sight base it appears to be a 1903(modified) Remington. Not an 03A3 and not a 1903A1.

I'll guess April-May 1942.

Dutch

[ke7chv]

"R A" emblem is a bulb with four 'roots/leaves/tentacles/' sprouting from it. "2-42"

"U.S. Remington Model 1903 30655989"

[shotman]

well the 'bulb ' is a flameing bomb its the army symbol it looks like you have 03 that has been "worked on" the front sight is a A3 on a 03 barrel cant tell but looks like some one removed the cut off . Is barrel good inside? bet its not.

[ke7chv]

Interior is perfect, or at least functioning very well. Cleaned it up, took it out to the range, put 30rds through it, and cleaned it afterward. No obstructions or damage to the rifling or interior anywhere.

[Bob S]

You have a Remington M1903. The "modified" term is a collectors' invention. Thay are all M1903's. The RA 2/42 barrel is probably original. It is difficult to say whether the stock is the original or a replacement, but it does appear from the pictures that a previous owner simply sawed it off at the lower band. If that is the case, the Easy Button to restore to shootable military configuration is to purchase a forend repair piece from Numrich Arms (now called "Gun Parts") and dowel and epoxy it on to the existing stock. The joint will be inconspicuous as it will be under the lower band. Your picture of the bands indicates that the stacking swivel is missing. Unless something cruel and unusual has been done to the stock that is not apparent in your photos, that's all you need.

Resp'y,
Bob S.

[NickSS]

You will also need an upper hand guard. New stocks are not hard to find in GI condition. If you can get a repair piece and can glue it in place under the barrel band that is a cheap fix but if that is not the case a new stock both lower and upper will be required to restore it to full military condition. Actuall that would make it more valuable than it is right now.

[NuJudge]

The Civilian Marksmanship Program has 1903 stocks. They are new production. I believe they are made by Boyd's.

https://estore.odcmp.com/store/catalog/catalog.aspx?pg=product&ID=086&item=&sfv=&cat=PAC&desc=&udc=&mct=&vndr=&ba=&pmin=&pmax=&note1=&note2=&note3=&note4=&note5=&max=

[405]

Judging from the serial number, your rifle is either a very late Rem M1903 or a very early Rem M1903 (modified) or maybe a transition between the two phases. No matter. IF the metal/mechanics/bore are all good (no bubba modifications to the metal) it would be WELL WORTH putting the old warhorse back together. Either a current after market stock set will work or with some patient looking around maybe an original wood set can be found. Gun shows, gunbroker.com, Numrich (e-gunparts.com) are places to start looking. Small metal parts like the front bayo lug band/unit, bands, stacking swivel parts, various screws, etc. are widely available. Never will be absolutely original but deserves the attempt.
Plus it may be a very good shooter!

[Larry Gibson]

Agree that it is a M1903. As Bob S said "modified" is a collectors invention. The "A1" is simply a configuration and any M1903 could be configured to that model down to the companyny armorer level. Collectors say they go to extremes to be "original" then they ignore the manuals and arsenal directives on thise one, go figure.

Your rifle should be a very good shooter as is or with some restoration will be a nice M1903 Or M1903A1, however you configure it.

Larry Gibson

[Dollar Bill]

Bob's advice, imho, has always been spot-on. Although I've never tried the repair part he talks about, it would appear the most cost efficient way to get it back to a military configuration.
NuJudge's info is good, also. I recently restored 2 Springfields to original (from the non-collector POV) using CMP stocks. They are Boyds stocks. Originally, apparently some folks had issues with them but both I received, a 1903 and an A3 stock, fit is excellent.

[supertodd]

if you want an orginal stock try dupage trading, they usually have a few

[Dutchman]

You have a Remington M1903. The "modified" term is a collectors' invention. They are all M1903's.

Using "collector's" terminology is somehow incorrect or wrong? To lay a minor foundation first, I did not invent the word (modified) as used to differentiate between early and later Remington 1903 rifles. "Early" and "late" being relative as the production period of all 1903 Remington rifles was very short before 1903A3 production was authorized in May, 1942.

They are not all the same. They weren't even created the same. In military inventory they may be Model of 1903 rifles, but to owners, researchers and even the dreaded collector in 2009 using such terminology allows those with lessor knowledge to correlate differences among the substrata of USGI firearms in a consistent manner.

Lt.Col. William S. Brophy, USAR, Ret. is the author of "The Springfield 1903 Rifles" and may be considered thee textbook for researchers and collectors. Though I'd say that there are differences in definition of "researcher" and "collector" we'll lump them together as their ilk is very close, closer than that of an ordinary "shooter" or lowly quartermaster. Brophy would be considered the epitome of how we'd define "researcher" as his technical background follows more closely with an upper stratum of users of 1903 Springfields.

Brophy uses (modified) in describing the 2 different Remington 1903 rifles.

In all fairness, Brophy also uses first and second "variation" for the two Remington 1903 rifles.

Bruce Canfield in his "Infantry Weapons of World War 2" uses (modified) to differentiate between the 2 Remington 1903 rifles as their features are distinct enough to require a sub-category.

Though the photos were insufficient to determine much, the Original Poster's one photo shows a rear sight base lacking the scallop lightning cuts on each side of the base. That's one of the distinct features of the(modifed) sub-category. Together with Remington nomenclature on the receiver ring and barrel dating fitting into known periods its safe to say the rifle in question was either a straight 1903 Remington-Springfield or, due to the rear sight base, a rifle of mixed parts from the factory or a rifle rebuilt using a 1903(m) barrel/rear sight assembly. At any rate, there are 2 Remington 1903 rear sight bases. Not one. Two.

These kinds of details are what allows researchers and collectors to answer questions such as what rifle is this?.

Initially I asked the OP for further information before venturing a guess as to which incarnation of 1903 he possessed. But based upon the rear sight base I made a fairly educated guess that was fairly accurate and correct.

As an aside, the rule of thumb among researchers and collectors of 1903 Springfields is that among USGI firearms there are no rules when it comes to what's correct and certainly not matching. Mixing inventory or production period parts can occur during initial production. But that doesn't even begin to address the post-issuance repair and rebuild criteria for army depots around the world since the end of WW2, as would be the case with this category of collectible USGI firearm.

Having two individuals dismiss the use of the word (modified) citing the etymological source as having been invented by collectors somehow creates the illusion that the use of the word (modified) is somehow wrong or incorrect when, in fact, it is neither wrong nor incorrect in describing one of the two sub-category of Remington 1903 rifles.

Serial number 30655989 (one number too many) fits into the 2nd variation of 1903 Remington, the (modified) version. The barrel date 2-42 can't be used to determine date of manufacture as many earlier barrels were used later. See Brophy p.178 for s/n 3046533 with barrel date 2-42 and of the (modified) version.

Per Brophy p.178: "The first 1903 rifle made by Remington was finished in November, 1941. By December 1941 a total of 1,273 rifles had been produced. Serial numbers as high as 3,365,002 have been observed. Those manufactured after April 1942 were identified as M1903(modified). A total of about 350,000 of the Remington M1903 and M1903(modified) were manufactured."

The Ordnance department description of the 1903A3 rifle on 29 September 1942 said: "This rifle is basically identical with the M1903 rifle. Principal variations are in the rear sight and the design of a few parts."

That would hardly be accepted by researchers and collectors as being a correct description or manner to identify the sub-category of the 03A3. But in military terms they are all the same. In 2009 to researchers and collectors they are not all the same.


"By virtue of this science the poet is the Namer, or Language-maker,
naming things sometimes after their appearance, sometimes after
their essence, and giving to every one its own name and not another's,
thereby rejoicing the intellect, which delights in detachment or boundary.
The poets made all the words, and therefore language is the archives
of history, and, if we must say it, a sort of tomb of the muses For, though
the origin of most of our words is forgotten, each word was at a stroke
of genius, and obtained currency, because for the moment it symbolizes
the world to the first speaker and to the hearer. The etymologist finds
the deadest word to have been once a brilliant picture."

Ralph Waldo Emerson The Poet


Dutch