Remove leading by firing a few "j" bullets

[mastercast.com]

I have been telling folks not to do this for years. I finally got corroboration from an "EXPERT" in the field...Allen Jones, of "Shooting Times" magazine. Check his credentials. Read his article in the latest "Shooting Times" magazine...the last paragraph if I recall.

When you fire a few "J" words to remove leading, the only thing that you do is "iron" the lead down in the grooves of the barrel. It may look like it is gone, but it is not. This can cause split forcing cones, bulged barrels(may be too small to see without magnification) and a significant loss of accuracy.

Gas checked bullets? Whole different story. Gas checked bullets have a shank that gives the lead scraped from the barrel a place to go. Gas checked bullets have a sharp edge on the front of the gas check, that scrapes lead. Jacketed bullets are smooth from the tip to the base.....nothing gets scraped from the barrel...the jacketed bullet just rides over the lead in the barrel and compresses it into the grooves.

[Shiloh]

This comes up from time to time.

I've always wondered what folks thought happened to the lead. Where does lead in a bore go??

Does it un-solder itself from the bore onto the jacketed bullet, and get carried out the muzzle??
The only thing that can happen to it is gets ironed onto the bore making a difficult job removing it even more tedious.

Shiloh

[405]

I see it posted as "gospel" fairly often. Always wondered about it for exactly the reasons/pitfalls given by Jones. So I'll continue not to do it. I guess my opinion about leading is to avoid it, find out why it happens and work on a solution and when it happens just clean it out with tight patch, solvent and bronze wool or Lewis Lead Remover.

[lwknight]

I always thought that didn't make good sense to try to shoot the lead out with hard copper.
I never tried it and could not prove either way. I agree. Bad idea.

[9.3X62AL]

Agreed, to all the above. The "gas-checked boolit" bit makes empirical sense, but still gives me a little pause for use as a lead deposit remover. Call me over-cautious.

[waksupi]

Much better, to fire a few low velocity gas checked rounds to clean the bore. They will do the job.

[Bret4207]

If you had a jacketed WC with a good sharp edge it might work. Myself, I just use a little 4/0 steel wool and solvent. Couple swipes and all is well.

[Bass Ackward]

As with everything else with shooting, you can't make exclusive statements because you can be right or you can be wrong. It just takes stopping to think.

Take pistol bullets: pure lead with a full length GC over them. Then compare that to a water dropped cast bullet with a GC.

Sure the GC will remove a certain amount of the tall lead, but that copper GC is FORCED much harder against the bore by a bullet that will not compress and even springs back. And then there is lube. Lube will NOT compress. Is that any different? Hydraulics is the worst force for barrel expansion and bullet compression yet we put the stuff on purposely.

What's the difference? Pressure and velocity.

And that lead build up that you are wanting to remove didn't come from just one bullet. Why you were ironing it on for several shots when you built it up. Is a nice soft, slow jacketed going to iron on more than that rock hard PB you are smokin? Nope.

Bottom line is that shooting anything over fouling does the harm. It just depends on the velocity and pressure if it can be tolerated. 22LR has shot over fouling for years but the effect is worse the faster you try to go.

Common sense to keep the velocity low with anything is still the key. The smart man didn't let it get there in the first place.

[Harry O]

Between 15 and 20 years ago, I had a brand new Marlin 94 in 44-40. It has micro-groove rifling. I took it to the range with a box of jacketed SP and a box of lead CAS loads. Shot a few of the jacketed. Very accurate. Then shot a few with the lead. I could not keep the bullets on the target at 25 yards from a rest.

When I shined a borelight in the barrel, it looked like the first 2 or 3 inches of barrel was smoothbore. Then I realized it was leading. I have since learned that the barrel groove dia is 0.430" and the bullets were a very soft 0.427". No wonder it leaded.

I still had the jacketed bullets and heard the story, so I shot 5 of them through the barrel. When I checked it next, I could see rifling near the chamber, but it did not clean out the lead. It just moved it further down the barrel and ironed it into the grooves. It was a bitch to get out. I won't do that again.

[Gohon]

I read that article and Allen Jones is the first person I've seen address this subject and at the same time went against some so called experts that claim jacketed bullets would remove lead. I've never bought into shooting jacketed stuff behind lead as a lead remover so Jones thoughts are in line with my thoughts. As to gas checks, in my opinion they do very little if anything to help lead removal. When the checks are crimped on that sharp edge is folded in when crimped. 405 has the right solution and that is work up a load that doesn't lead and if there is a minute amount of leading, a few strokes of a brush wrapped with a chore boy copper strand will take it all out. Works for me..........

[dubber123]

Much better, to fire a few low velocity gas checked rounds to clean the bore. They will do the job.

This is what I do. If the boolit is above groove diameter to start, I don't even use GC boolits. Undersized slugs won't help, and are probably the reason for the leading in the first place. You will be surprised how well a few 800 fps. loads will clean out leading.

[felix]

True. Lead would rather stick to lead than to steel. Everyone should have chaser loads for every gun, especially when experimenting with new loads (lubes, hot powders, soft lead, etc.). A chaser load can be normal a plain base WW not over 850 guesstimated, using filler when necessary for safety. ... felix

[hiram]

I wanted to get some major dirt out of a barrel. I loaded a FLAT BASE jacketed bullet with a light load BACKWARDS. I got a jacketed wad cutter. It did the trick, the barrel still needed cleaning, but much of the initial dirt was gone.

[Eutectic]

True. Lead would rather stick to lead than to steel. Everyone should have chaser loads for every gun, especially when experimenting with new loads (lubes, hot powders, soft lead, etc.). A chaser load can be normal a plain base WW not over 850 guesstimated, using filler when necessary for safety. ... felix

This is interesting......

A while back I was testing some .45 Auto "J" loads for expansion shooting into water soaked phone books. The barrel had some minor leading in front of the chamber from hard cast commercial bullets I had been shooting earlier in the week.

I placed six of the "J" loads into the wet paper.............

Chasing into the wet phone books I found my six nicely mushroomed slugs... But my real surprise was their bearing surface. Four of the six had lead plating completely around the barrel contact area, lands and grooves! Two were partially plated with copper showing through...

Some work at the bench found the lead alloy firmly bonded. Soldered to the copper may be a better term!

I cleaned the barrel and didn't find any lead with bronze wool....

Eutectic

[Fixxah]

Being a plumber, I do believe that copper and lead form a nice bond when heated.

[lwknight]

I have to admit, you can blast some lead out of a fouled barrel. But its probably going to do no good for the barrel and still won't get it clean. You just iron out the high spots and move the fouling around.
I guess if you shoot enough jacketed bullets , you could eventually move the lead fouling right out the end of the barrel.
It stands to reason that high power rifle barrels will wear out eventually. Since lead is softer than steel it should wear out faster.
I still would not suggest it as a viable option to proper cleaning.

[Wally]

I have a Ruger SS .357 Mag Blackhawk that leads up easily----using gas check bullets, the barrel remains foul free. Using lead bullets I leaded up the barrel and then tried to shoot it clean using the gas check bullets that are known not to foul the barrel---they did not clean the fouling out at all...