Cleaning Lead Out w/a Jacked bullet.

[Bigscot]

I was wondering what opinions are out there on removing some of the leading build up in barrels by shooting a few jacketed last. I have heard different things on this subject but I always clean thoroughly when switching between the to.
Also curious about shooting lead over jacketed and visa versa.

Bigscot

[danski26]

Never worked for me. It has always just put copper on top of the lead. But I have never tried shooting a flat based jacketed projectile backward to remove the lead like I have heard others recommend.

Lewis lead remover and sweets 7.62 for copper, works for me.

[454PB]

It works for me. You have to be mindful that a leaded bore will raise pressure, so the jacketed load should be a reduced load. Another method is to slug the barrel. The slug will push the leading out.

Years ago my Dad traded for a Colt Trooper .357 that was badly leaded. Rather than scrub and clean for hours, I fired a few lightly loaded jacketed rounds through it, then did the normal cleaning with a brass brush.

[Lloyd Smale]

i do it all the time. A gas check bullet will do it too.

[David R]

I used to use that method, until I learned about the chore boy.

While shooting my 38, I had to deal with a lot of lead in the barrel. It seems the j boolits would take out 90% of the lead and make the last 10 % a real B*tch to remove. It seems to iron the lead into the corners of the rifling. Look at your bore with a bright light and see if there is still lead there. A chore boy (copper scrubber) wraped around an old bore brush takes the lead out with a few swipes. It workes better if the gun is still hot.

Gas checked boolits work well and don't seem to make that last little bit so hard to get out, but they still leave some lead.

YMMV
David

[felix]

Shoot, or ramrod, lead boolits as slow as possible until barrel is clean. ... felix

[Bucks Owin]

Seems to me that "maybe" a jacketed boolit handloaded to low velocity might work. Same with a GC. I've never loaded any slow enough to find out I guess, although I'm going to give it a "shot" eventually. I'm more interested in developing loads that don't lead in the first place....

When I've tried "normal velocity" jacketed loads they seem to just "impact" the lead into the bore making it even harder to remove....

Leading is just something that goes with lead boolits when a load isn't "right" for one reason or another. Velocity, hardness, size, lube.....they all must work together in "harmony" and then leading isn't gonna be a problem. It's not like just dumping in a charge, topping it with a jacketed boolit and that's it. Takes a little more thought to make things work with lead it seems....(And is part of the fun and challenge that result in a successful lead boolit load IMO....)

FWIW,

Dennis

[9.3X62AL]

Dennis--

Pretty good summation of the hobby there. Shooting a j-word through a leaded barrel always seemed a little hazardous to me, although I've done it a few times. I think gas-checked boolits do a better job of removing most of the leading, but as said above--there's still a bit left behind. Felix's method seems counter-intuitive to me......but remember I was a social science major in school. :-)

I can't locate Chore Boy scouring pads at the local grocery stores. What grocery chains carry them? I've wanted to try that route in the past, but have been stymied by inability to find the critters.

[Bucks Owin]

Dennis--


I can't locate Chore Boy scouring pads at the local grocery stores. What grocery chains carry them? I've wanted to try that route in the past, but have been stymied by inability to find the critters.

Same here. I usually resort to 4/0 steel wool if JB paste won't remove the really stubborn stuff.......
I should probably break down and buy a Lewis kit....

Dennis

[felix]

Al, lead would rather stick to lead than to steel. Steel will shear off lead, so that is why you want the slowest speed possible. The more leaded the barrel, the more shots will be necessary. You don't want to iron on the lead with jacketed bullets. Jacketed can PUSH out the lead if the jacketed bullet had sharp corners. This is why the wire mesh, steel or copper, stuff works. When the lead is more than normal in a gun, especially a revolter, I like to use the circular wire stainless steel brushes. Throw them away when the corners become "too" sharp from wear. Use normal solvents with these brushes. ... felix

[felix]

Should always have some "chaser" rounds loaded. These rounds should not be loaded for accuracy per se, but for cleaning the barrel. Five rounds in a rifle usually works well after about 20 or 30 rounds that leave a trace of lead. I usually find, but not always, some loads that leave some silvery lead "fumes" per shot at the muzzle have the best accuracy when using my bench gun. Chasers are required if I am not going to stroke the gun that day. If going to stroke the gun (ramrod) I do it within 20 minutes after shooting. Chasers are not required before this activity. ... felix

[montana_charlie]

Hmmm...no mention of electrical devices?

[lovedogs]

The jacketed bullet trick will work but only to a point. There will still be some lead left but it's easier to deal with after it's lessened by the condom. Same with a GC.

[Lewis] lead removers work pretty well. Chore Boy works about the same as the lead removers and you don't have to buy the little brass patches.

By far the best is the Outer's Foul Out. Used correctly, the lead pours out like snot in just a short time.

[9.3X62AL]

I have Lewis Lead Removers for the handguns, I wasn't clear enough in my meaning--I was speaking of rifles.

The LLR does fine work in not much time, for sure. The 44/45 LLR was of great service when the paper-patch experiments "went Frankenstein) on me and bushed the 45-70's bore down to about 42 caliber or so.

I've thought about one of the Foul-Out devices, but since I don't very often plate bores with alloy--it slips my mind. I do think the Foul-Out would be a fine way to de-copper or de-lead a bore before changing boolit/bullet types. Are the things more effective than chemical solvents on copper fouling?

[montana_charlie]

Are the things more effective than chemical solvents on copper fouling?
Speaking strictly from what I've read...not done...
When using the correct solution (electrolyte might be the proper term), you can pull copper, lead, or even rust off of steel.

The electrolyte(?) is water...and washing soda for rust, lead acetate (or perhaps that's sulphate) for lead, and citric acid (vinegar) for copper.

Home made units apparently work as well as the Outers product.
CM

[David R]

Chore Boy works! I have also seen them sold as a Curly Kate. Al, if you relly want one, send me a PM with your addy and I'll mail a couple out.

Group buy? :) :)

I did make the home made electric bore cleaner, but I used it to get out fifty or so years of crud from my 1917 enfield. I couldn't believe the crud that kept coming out of the barel. I also used it on my 1891 mauser. I then found the rifling was almost gone. I have read the real foul out uses copper or lead ions in the solutions to make it work better. I also read the patent expires this month.

I gotta add I have verry little problem with leading. None with rifles and only one handgun that leads. I am getting that problem fixed too. ONLY 350 more J boolits to go and it should be good.

David

[bmblong]

Getting started out with bullets too soft and too fast I tried "shooting the lead out" and gotta say that all it did was iron it on the bore. I got a Lewis lead remover and am convinced that is the best thing going. I have wanted to try a copper pot srubber but am having trouble finding one that isn't just copper coated steel. Good luck.

[waksupi]

I believe it was Veral Smith who recommended shooting several low velocity GC bullets to remove the lead from a barrel. Anyone tried this? I've had some luck with it.

[Ken O]

I have the Lewis, and have used the chore boy, but I like the Cylinder and Slide lead remover. It is like the Chore Boy pads, but its much stiffer. One bag will last forever. Available at Midway:Cylinder and Slide lead remover (http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=179836)

[454PB]

A friend of mine bought one of the electric "foul out" units and made the mistake of leaving a cleaning rod in the barrel during treatment. He had to take it to a gunsmith to have it removed.

[David R]

I have the Lewis, and have used the chore boy, but I like the Cylinder and Slide lead remover. It is like the Chore Boy pads, but its much stiffer. One bag will last forever. Available at Midway:Cylinder and Slide lead remover (http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=179836)

Looks like a pot scrubber to me!

David

[dragonrider]

I use an Outer Foul Out. Recently cleaned out an 03-A3 that posssibly never had been cleaned. The bore looked terrible prior to cleaning but with much scrubbing and four sessions with the OFO cop out it once again clean with a very nice bore. The copper fouling was very heavy in the first third of the bore. Usually if the OFO is still cleaning after 4 hours the solution is used up and needs to be changed with a good scrubbing in between.

[Baldy]

For lead I use Blue wonder. Run a couple of patches through it then run a patch down to the forcing cone and let it sit for a while. Then run some more patches and be sure to run a oil patch and your done. It works good for me and I fire about 300 rounds a week of lead in two different types of guns.:coffee:

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
I have a lewis lead remover in both 38 & 44, it has been one of the best buys I ever made. I made a rifle version w/ a old bore brush & a small pieace of widow screen.
Thanks Felix for the jacket/gc bullet tips I will try it out as I made the mistake of buying some store bought cast bullets to try out. BLAGH!

[joeb33050]

Speaking strictly from what I've read...not done...
When using the correct solution (electrolyte might be the proper term), you can pull copper, lead, or even rust off of steel.

The electrolyte(?) is water...and washing soda for rust, lead acetate (or perhaps that's sulphate) for lead, and citric acid (vinegar) for copper.

Home made units apparently work as well as the Outers product.
CM
Where could I get instructions on maki9ng a home made unit for electric cleaning?
Thanks;
joe b.

[trk]

A few years back, in the Cast Bullet (the Fowling Shot) there was an artical that covered it thoroughly - how to build your own. The next issue contained an appology and disclaimer due to it's being patented. I'll look through the stacks to see if I can find them and scan them.

[trk]

Just looked. Haven't found THE issue yet. 1992 - 1995 time frame.

[David R]

There is a good discussioin and some links here http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=4439

I made one and love it.

David

[trk]

And here's another reference (includes a pdf of instructions).

http://www.surplusrifle.com/reviews/copperout/index.asp

[MLR]

Have any of you tried using "Kano Kroil"? Its highly reccomended by some of the shooters on the BPCR forums. Its a penetrating oil. They say it works wonders on lead but not on copper.

Michael

[DLCTEX]

joeb; the link I posted did not work, but use the one posted by David R above and go to post #16 by garandsrus and click on that link to see plans for a homemade version.

[montana_charlie]

http://www.gun-tests.com/performance/nov97clean.html

Homemade Outer's Foul Out descriptions: http://www.surplusrifle.com/reviews/copperout/index.asp

Lot's of stuff plus home made FoulOut
http://www.frfrogspad.com/homemade.htm

[bobbalee]

With all due respect, vinegar is acetic acid. Citric is from lemons and such. Bob

[grumpy one]

I recommend that people go carefully trying to use the home-made version of the electrolysis device to remove lead. I tried it when I had very heavy lead deposits in a Marlin 336 30-30, and it ended badly. I ran the device at a controlled 100 mA current for an hour and didn't find any deposits on the central electrode, but there was some black stuff that I brushed out from the inside of the bore. Thinking this was lead, I replaced the electrolyte (a 50-50 mixture of vinegar and ammonia) and ran it again, with the same results. This went on over and over, with black stuff removed from the bore each time, but no visible change in the lead fouling. After pints of electrolyte and a total of 30 hours running at 100 mA current, there was just as much lead as ever - but I noticed that right where the end of the muzzle plug reached to, there was a ring with no rifling at all. Seems like it didn't have any effect on the lead, but it certainly did on the interior of the barrel. I hadn't noticed the erosion along the way because the bore of that rifle was extremely rough, despite it not having seen much use.

I took the eroded rifle to the range and shot some 150 grain jacketed bullets, using the same bullets and load that had given 0.8 inch groups despite the lead fouling immediately before I had used the electrolysis. This time I fired a group at 25 yards and two at 55 yards. Every one of those 15 bullets went through the target sideways. Seems like I now have a problem. I haven't tried using oversized cast bullets yet, but I think that rifle is finished as a J-bullet shooter, if it isn't finished altogether.

I'm not saying the home-made electrolysis device can't work with a different electrolyte, and it may be capable of removing, say, rust, with the vinegar and ammonia electrolyte. However I do recommend that you proceed very cautiously if you try to remove lead with this stuff. Please don't make your first experiment with a rifle that you care about, and don't run it for very long, even if you keep replacing the electrolyte, as I did. YMMV - I only hope it does.

Geoff

[Bass Ackward]

I have seen quite a few barrels that have been ruined by the electric cleaners. I don't know enough to blame it on operator error or the devise itself. I don't use it.

I don't particularly care for the idea of running jacketed down a "heavily" leaded bore. I have seen barrel expansion / bulges occur. Lead, if heavy enough, would act like debris in a bore and possibly cause an unwanted result. Light leading would probably be no problem except how light is light? And Copper is harder for me to remove than lead anyway.

I remove the lead by hand. Or I use GC pistol bullets and simply wipe the grease out of the gas check groove. I load and shoot them at low velocity using 3.5 grains of Bullseye in a 44 Mag as an example and one cylinder makes short work of even the heaviest leading disappear. Then you just have light leading to deal with. I keep 6 loaded at all times just like I keep a a first aid kit.

[felix]

Yes, yes, yes, use chasers after every range session, and whenever accuracy is falling off during a session. Don't forget to take them with you, and do remember to modify your real load to affect the barrel less. ... felix

[NucEm]

Never had any big troubles with removing lead but i used the homemaked version of the electrodevice, just a flaslight as they describe it in there if one follows the link. I use it on some old 6.5 Swedish and it worked wonders. Easy to use, just make sure of two things: Dont let the steelrod touch the inside of the barrel and dont leave it in there for too long, works for me :drinks:
If i get lead in my guns i deserve it so some elbow grease is the punishment, but copper? not my fault so let it be easy to remove:coffee:

[hiram]

I fyou are using a straight wall case, use a minimum powder charge with a compressed column of cream of wheat (farina) and a bullet or gas check to cap it off. I have read several times, but I have not tried it, that the cow has a scrubbing action and gets the lead out.

[robertbank]

Man I hate to go back to the basics but a 100% copper pot cleaning pad like Chor Boy removes lead is about three swipes. It is that easy. Saves so much time and effort. Like others I tried the jacketed bullet routine but found I only ironed in the lead.

Take Care

Bob

[LostCajun]

I was playing around with a Dremel and a FMJ 9mm one day (edit: bullet only, NOT full-up round), and the result gave me an idea that I've never had the opportunity to try.
How about grinding the base off a jacketed (full or partial) bullet, taking care to leave a sharp scraping edge (ground surface flat or slightly cupped). Then load it light and backwards so the scraping edge is the first to engage the rifling. When it's fired, the edge should take off any lead deposits. Copper fouling would probably just wear away at the jacket and round the edge off, so I doubt it'd work for that.
I guess you could grind down the nose of the jacketed bullet also, but there's just less metal to remove at the base.
I remember the Navy manuals for fixed ammunition (3in/50 on my ship) showed Lead Foil at the base of the projectile on the cutaway drawings of the cartridges "to remove fouling". Since the driving bands were copper, I never quite understood how lead foil would scrape away copper, but Ensigns don't ask such questions. If it was supposed to remove powder fouling, it was in an odd place, sitting between the proj and powder charge.
Anyway, somebody feel free to try out the scraper idea, and let us know if it works or not.
LostCajun

[robertbank]

I have heard of guys loading bullets backwards to achieve this result. I never have and I have tried shooting jacketed bullets with the idea of scrapping out lead. To date I have just found all it does is iron in the lead into the rifling. Others may have other experiences. For all the time it takes when I get leading I just remove it with a Chor Boy copper pad wrapped aroung an old copper brush.

Take Care

Bob

[NucEm]

""" How about grinding the base off a jacketed (full or partial) bullet, taking care to leave a sharp scraping edge (ground surface flat or slightly cupped)."""
Just remember if you grind the base of the bullet with a dremel, if its an open tip bullet and you put it in the cartridge backwards:twisted: BIG risk that you shoot out the lead and the jacket stays in the barrel:(
Back in time, when hard to find jacketed hunting bullets people did reworked the fmj bullets on military ammo, sometimes with so and so results but some times the jacket stayed in the barrel and the pressure in the gun when the next bullet came along..........well you get the picture:groner:

[Dale53]

My brother had a jacket stay in the barrel of his 03A3. The next shots just ironed it in the barrel. Did wonders for accuracy.... like, destroyed any semblance.

Fortunately, I had an extra, new, barrel and he had it fitted up locally. He was lucky, the local smith did a good job and didn't charge him much.

Dale53

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
Been using the slow gas checked bullet for 2 wks. now. seems to help some, but the lewis lead remover is still getting alot out. 50 shots store bought hard cast ( ha!) bullets then 6 of my harder gc bullets, in the wifes 357.

[twotoescharlie]

sounds like you might have your electronic bore cleaner hooked up bass ackwards. if hooked backwards the reverse osmosis solution takes from the rod and puts it on the barrel, where if hooked up correctly it removes from the barrel and puts it on the rod. not being a smart ass but I have done this same thing myself.



TTC

[joeb33050]

Please tell what these chaser loads are. How loaded, powder, bullet, etc.
What is your bench gun?
Thanks;
joe b.



Should always have some "chaser" rounds loaded. These rounds should not be loaded for accuracy per se, but for cleaning the barrel. Five rounds in a rifle usually works well after about 20 or 30 rounds that leave a trace of lead. I usually find, but not always, some loads that leave some silvery lead "fumes" per shot at the muzzle have the best accuracy when using my bench gun. Chasers are required if I am not going to stroke the gun that day. If going to stroke the gun (ramrod) I do it within 20 minutes after shooting. Chasers are not required before this activity. ... felix

[felix]

Chaser loads are boolits shot with minimum velocity, like as slow as possible. Actually, ramrodding a boolit is probably even more effective starting with the muzzle end. A heavily leaded pistol can be cleaned by no more than three slugs from the muzzle. I use chaser rounds for very lightly leaded bores, and between 'relays'. The bench gun is a 22-40 (an Ackley 222 chamber) heavy varmit with a Brown stock, Shilen barrel and his round very heavy duty action (within the first 100 made while he was in NY), Jewell trigger. ... felix

[robertbank]

With respect the most heavily leaded pistol barrel will be clean as a whistle with about four strokes of a 100% copper pad Chor Boy wrapped around an old wire brush. Takes about two minutes max. Aside from Felix Lube (major suck-up :-D ) this has been the best tip I have ever received on the net. Received it after I bought Lewis Lead Remover which now sits in the closet unused.

Take Care

Bob

[felix]

The wire pads indeed work well, Bob. Need to get the lead out of the angles too, and just one slug down the barrel will do that. Deeper grooves means less importance. Let the accuracy decide on how clean, clean is. ... felix

[w30wcf]

Fellow Cast Bullet Enthusiasts,

I would recommend that you take Felix's advice....... lead bullet cartridges, assembled correctly, will, indeed, take the lead out. (In my experience they will also remove copper fouling from the bore too!)

Several years ago, I was competeing in a side match at a SASS event with my .45 Colt Marlin Cowboy Rifle. Anyway, somehow I had managed to double charge a
.45 Colt cartridge (First and last time I will do that!) with the result that the interior of the barrel became leaded to say the least.

Longer story short, I fired 10 more cartridges to complete the side match and, surprisingly, when I started to clean the rifle later, Idiscovered that there was no trace of leading remaining in the barrel. Bullet alloy was w.w. + 2% tin.

w30wcf