1860 vs. Dragoon

[zardoz]

Hello all:

Christmas came a bit early for zardoz today. Off work for the next two weeks, and I have been dreaming about a 3rd model Dragoon for quite some time. Blame the movies, Josey Wales, Gus McCrae, Mattie Ross (True Grit), and Crazy Cora (Quigley) for the obsession. I know that Josey and Gus used Walkers, but could not abide by the ramrod falling down syndrome. Just liked the looks of the 3rd Dragoon.

Anyway, this morning I hit the road bright and early, and drove to Union City. Arrived at Dixie Gun Works in person about noon, and slobbered over the vast array of black powder history. That derringer collection is quite awesome. Picked up a Sharps or two, and dreamed some more.

On to business. The very nice lady at the counter knew her stuff for sure. So refreshing to actually have a salesperson know their stuff. Christmas is here, and I am finally getting that Uberti 3rd model Dragoon.

Now I asked about powder charge on the Dragoon, and the nice lady just said 22 grains FFFG per the manual and documents. OK, I understand. But that cylinder looks like the ram won't even get the ball to touch 22 grains. Now, wiki says 50 grains is good max charge, but won't take that as gospel by any means.

Do you gents out there figure a 50 grain charge to be safe on these? I was planning on starting with a 40 grain charge for starters.

Anyway, here without further delay, are my Pietta 1860 Army, and my new Uberti 3rd Dragoon for your examination. Haven't even taken the tag off the Dragoon yet.

[docone31]

40gns out to be a comfortable load.
I have loaded 60gns in my Walker, but at 40gns, it spoke with authority without dropping the loading lever.
The Dragoon is similiar.
You might try 40gns, and see how it feels. My Walker took a .457 ball. The Dragoon is probably the same.

[Hellgate]

The original Dragoon load was 40grs powder. Its plenty.

[NickSS]

These revolvers can handle as much black powder as you can stuff into them. However, I have found that they shoot more accurately with a lighter powder charge. I do not have a dragoon but I do have a Piatta 1860 army like you have and I have settled on 28 gr of FFFG and a round ball on top. This is not a max load as I can get 35 gr in the chamber but I have found that it shoots the best and does not require filler to seat the ball on the powder. I think that the dragoon (which has a shorter cylinder than the Walker) will hold 50 gr but 40 should be a nice load to try.

[Pistolero]

I have an Armi San Marco 3rd model Dragoon and I love shooting it. It was my first cap n ball pistol, so i lacked alot of accesories that go with black powder. What I did was take a .44 magnum case and fill it with FFg. Used that as a powder charger. I don't know how much powder it held, but i doubt it more than 40 gr.

But i still need to put a rubber band around the loading lever so it doesn't drop after each shot. After about 40 shots the hand and spring broke - i repaced it with a uberti walker part. I won't go over 40gr as I really don't want anything else to break.

Cheers!!

[lastmanout]

I think the Dragoons have shorter cylinders than the Walkers. It was to save weight and the extra powder capacity was not really needed with the 7 1/2 or 8" barrel (unburned powder). Later studies showed the 1860 Army penetrated as many pine boards as the larger 44 pistols and used a smaller charge. Was like getting better gas mileage/ higher horsepower in a smaller package and Colt advertised the 1860 Army as such. Advances in steel making technology allowed lighter firearms also. The dragoons ARE impressive pistols from a important place in American history. Enjoy.

[StrawHat]

I have settled on a cylinderful of powder. As long as I can get the card disc and ball in, it is fine. I can not tell you what the # of grains is as I don't have a scale set up at this time. I have a flask with a spout that throws the correct amount.

Could I load less? Probably, but I doubt if I would go less than 40 grains. For that, I have my 1860s.

The Dragoon cylinder was shortened because the cylinder that held 60 grains of powder were blowing up. Bad for business so they reworked the design at the request of those using the revolver, and came out with the improved model complete with loading lever catch. Even the improved models were the source of complaints, too heavy, but it took about a decade for the 1860 to arrive.

Since you have both, I would suggest you dedicate the Dragoon for your "heavy" revolver and carry on. Nice start to BP revolver shooting by the way. Good luck and enjoy the smoky view.

A photo of my Dragoon with a few of my 1860s

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc194/StrawHat/Dragoon1860.jpg

[northmn]

The Dragoons were horse pistols made to be carried on a saddle holster (thats what dragoon means). I could see no reason to load them down as they are made to be used with heavier charges. As to what is the most efficient in a 7.5 inch barrel??? The true holster pistols like the Remington, the 1851 and 1860 Colts really took off when they came out as the Dragoons were heavy. when you read some of the westerns about carrying a Walker or a Dragoon in a holster for fast draw you need to allow for literary license as that was not likely to happen. My favorite was old Gus in Lonesome Dove carrying his Walker when the 73 Colt army was a more powerful pistol.

Northmn

[StarMetal]

I'll tell you a revolver that's a better comparison to the Walker...and that's the Ruger Old Army. Yeah, I know it wasn't around then.

Joe

[Hellgate]

A lot of Dragoons were found in the gold fields of the early gold rushes in California, Idaho and Montana in the 1860s. I was reading Dimsdales Vigilantes of Montana and when they were arresting the road agens they found a lot of navy and Dragoon colt's revolvers.

[northmn]

The most popular or one of the most popular Colts seemed to be the 1851 Navy, which held on into the cartridge days for a short time as far as manufacture. Nathan Bedford Forest liked them for his cavalry, as well as other Confederate officers. The horse pistols started falling out of favor with the development of these handy little holster pistols. Still the Dragoon was kind of the 44 mag of its day. C&B revolvers are fun.

Northmn

[StrawHat]

I believe the most numerously produce C&B revolvers from Colts were the 31 caliber. And they continued making them into the cartridge period as C&B and converted revolvers. Not my idea of a SD handgun but given the medical knowhow of the day, I wouldn't want to be knicked by one.

[zardoz]

First, a Happy New Year to us all.

After a road trip out west to see my folks (got hit by the blizzard day before Christmas Eve), today was the day for finally shooting that Dragoon back here at home.

I wanted to cast my own balls for this, and had a new Lee mould for .454". Had to clean the production pot out of wheelweight alloy, and ended up doing a full maintenance on the thing. A little wire brushing and steel wool on the valve rod, and the leaks on the thing stopped, so very glad I did. It's been a year since I gave that thing a good cleaning.

Used only stick on wheelweight ingots, and found out that casting lead balls is quite a bit easier than casting boolits from WW alloy. Just fell out of the mould, and very shiny to boot.

Loading up, I used the 40 grains of Goex FFFG in the cylinders. The balls I cast were perfect, and all shaved a perfect little ring. Now I'm going to town!

Out to the range, and the caps are a bit looser on the nipples than the 1860. A slight pinch, ever so slight, and that was enough.

6 times, kaboom!. GAWD-AH-MITE-EE, what a blunderbuss hawg of a pistol that Dragoon is. Most satisfying. At 15 yards, aiming roughly 3 inches below center, and I got on the paper plate around center. Not championship level, but this was for fun, and just glad I could hit the broad side of a barn. Heavy smoke clouds blew back in my face. Ahhh, the aroma (cough, cough). The holy black in all its glory.

Back inside, and in the sink with hot water and dawn. Scrub down, soak in WD40, wipe down, and back together with rem oil and a dab of grease on the cylinder rod. Wedge pin in, button up, and a smile on this New Years Day 2010.

Life is good.

[StrawHat]

Glad to hear it went well. I hope it makes many trips to the renge with you, when it warms up a bit.

[Hellgate]

If you slightly deepen and widen the rear sight notch you will be shooting right on.