What do I have?

[cheese1566]

My nice brother-in-law gave me 20 RP once fired .303 British brass. He also gave me about a dozen loaded rounds similar to .303. The lengths are a hair different, the rims are the same, and the shoulders are different too.

They vary a little, what are they?
.303 case on the left, mystery round on the center, upper is headstamp ( U 1944 Vll)
18088

[Johnch]

Looks to me both are 303

Just Before and after after being shot in a normal over sized 303 chamber

That is why I only neck size for my Enfeild

John

[dbldblu]

Agree with John.

[docone31]

Nope.
Look at the rims. Different.
Also, it looks like the cases are two different diameters at the bottom.
Hmmm.
Might one be 30/40 Krag?

[cheese1566]

303 rim measures .528"
Mystery is about .522"


303 above rim (above the groove) is .448"
Mystery is .455"

Mystery bullet diameter above the case is .311"

(Not planning on shooting them anyway...)

[bruce drake]

30/40 Krag has a longer neck than the 303 Brit.

I agree with John, also the headstamp indicates 1944 manufacture of the Mk 7 ammo In South Africa.

This is a 174gr flatbase bullet rated at 2440Ft per second.

ref: http://www.dave-cushman.net/shot/303headstamps.html

Bruce

[Johnch]

Looks like it is 303 ammo

http://www.dave-cushman.net/shot/303headstamps.html

I just did a quick search for " U 1944 VII "
I found this on the link under "U"

U or SAM
South African Mint, Pretoria, South Africa... U code from 1939 - 1961 and SAM 1962 onwards. (When U is used with a diamond this represents the Kimberley factory... B, BCMK7, TRGMK2, Semi AP (F Mk 1), Jacketed soft point sporting.

They show a case head with U 1942 VII ( about 3/4 down the page )

John

[Hip's Ax]

Yep, my headstamp database is showing that headstamp as

"South African Mint, Pretoria

Military cartridges. Changed headstamp to SAM in 1961. Examples are .303 Mark 7 British cartridges made for WW2."

I have a decent supply of 1980's (I think this is the vintage, I'll look when I get home) of South African 303 mil surp ball and I remember the rim being dead square, no chamfer at all.

[Bloodman14]

cheese, that IS .303, I have about 200 rounds of the stuff, same headstamp. Shoot it up, or pull the bullets, and cast some gluelits for 'em, like I will.

[atr]

agrees with Bruce and Gunnerd,,,
I had several hundred rounds of the stuff

[Multigunner]

I agree with whats said previously, Remington and Winchester brass is usually smaller diameter than milsurp .303 cases.

There are shortened .303 cartridges though, and occasionally an otherwise stock Enfield may show up that won't chamber the regular cartridges.

The shortened .303 is know as a .303 sporting or 7.7X54R, 2mm shorter and with shoulder set back accordingly. It was developed in France to allow Enfield owners to have a functioning Enfield which was no longer in a military caliber, to sidestep a law in force at the time. The cartridge had some favor in Australia for awhile as well for similar reasons, some jurisdictions there prohibited military chamberings.

The 7.7X54R was used in both purpose made barrels and in original barrels set back two threads, and the chamber cleaned up with a finishing reamer if necessary.
Some single shot conversions of military auto rifles were chambered for this shorter rimmed case. An FAL version is one I've seen images of, and I've heard of Garand conversions.

Australian manufacture 7.7X54R is often made using remanufactured military ammo. The bullet and charge pulled the still berdan primed case resized and trimmed then charge and bullet replaced.

This dodge is no longer necessary these days, laws got a hair looser after what seemed a downhill slide into gun grabbing.