(308) Indian 2A1 problem?

[broomhandle]

Indian 2A1 Extractor problem or not?

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Hi Guys ,

Bought a Indian 2A1 rifle from a collector pal, he never shot it in the 10-12 years he had it.
I cleaned the rifle up & the barrel looks like new. I soon discovered that ejection was iffy!

I took the rifle to a local Enfield collector & we compared my rifle to his 2A1. We discovered that the Ejector was one from a 303 (rimmed)! I send to the correct one. I fit it (that spring is STRONG!) I try the ejection with a few dummys. It works well!

Now the problem?? Or is it? I don't want to fix some thing that is not broken!

I go to close the bolt & release the firing pin. The bolt will not go into battery! It looks like the ejector with the spring force behind it, will not allow the bolt to seat properly. On his rifle the bolt will close, but the spring force is weaker.

I cleaned the extractor cut & there is no junk in it.

I see my options - file or grind the extractor a bit keeping the all the shapes in tact
( my worry is that the hook will get short (weak & snap) & not extract the cases again)

Or try to file the extractor slot a tad deeper. I have not had a chance to ink up the parts to see what is hitting yet.
As I said with a dummy bullet feeding from the chamber it work OK!

I cannot see how it is hanging up at this time & really don't want to fight with the spring again for a fitting with out the spring in place. This might be normal for this rifle like the oddites Japanese rifles have.

Thanks for any help moving slowly on this problem,
broomhandle

[docone31]

Yeah, those springs are a bear to replace.
Once the spring is in the groove, you have to push it in deeper. I use a small screwdriver for that.
It is not the first click, it is the second click when the spring is in.

[Bloodman14]

Is the extractor contacting the extractor groove abruptly? I think doc missed the point of the problem. Can you force the bolt closed with your hand? You may be able to see the extractor move into the extractor groove. If the bolt 'pops' open, you may have other issues.

[Kuato]

When the rifle is loaded the extractor gets pushed out by the casing into the slot on the breech. When not loaded the extractor actually hits the slot & only gets pushed outward by lowering the bolt handle. If your spring is new, this could be why you're having trouble.

The extractor really only fits in the slot when its loaded. At least thats how it is on mine. The claw of the extractor covers the boltface on mine upto the primer ring. If I lower the bolt handle slowly, I can see the extractor get pushed outward by the slot.

[cheese1566]

I was having some trouble with mine last week while assembling after refurbishing. I thought the same thing- new spring and hard extractor hanging up. I found the top of the bolt face wanted to hit the top of the reciever just enough to hang up. But after full bolt assembly, some light lube and grease on the lugs, and gentle cycling with dummy rounds, it went away. Not sure the hang up, but it took a few minutes to diagnose.
Exhaust all options before doing any file work. I almost did and now I am glad I didn't jump the gun (no pun intended!)

[broomhandle]

Hi Guys,

Thanks for the replys!

I looked over the problem. The new extractor is pushed too far foward, into the center of the barrel.
The result is it is the front side of the extractor hook creating a solid block on the edge of the cut on the barrel. -- If there is no case to slide over.

I went to a gunshow this weekend & I saw two other 2A1's counting mine this makes three!
ALL the extractor slots & the extractors were made diffrent!:veryconfu
I have a milled flat slot in the barrel. I saw a ground slot that has a half round shape & a third that has a bevel lathe turned on the barrel ALL the way around .
The extractors vary in shape & over all size like night & day!
Mine is the largest, one has just a tiny little hook shape to it.

I'm going to call the parts guy before I butched this extractor.

Best,
broomhandle -- lost in Indian space!:veryconfu

[broomhandle]

Hi Guys,

Thanks for the replys. :drinks:I took a few pictures with the cell phone at the show.

I came home & looked at them. I tried to file the new extractor, but it was HARD! I guess that is a good thng!

I measured the distance between the bolt & action with a case in & with out.

I removed the bolt head & used a belt sander & a Dremel on it!

Cut the angle by about 10 degrees total. After about four trys it almost fit.

I uses a Dremmel tool & a clean stone to match the existing quarter round convex shape on the out side of the extractor.

I blended it to the tip where I removed the steel. The bolt now almost closed.

At this point, I used my Harbor Freight diamond files to dress the edges & polished the area I worked, with some fine emory paper & a wood dowel.

Cleaned the grinding dust off twice & washed it off with brake cleaner.
Screwed in the bolt head & it worked smoothly.
I put some black marker on it to check for a good fit. Looks good! works well with a empty chamber or dummy cases!

The extractor was cleaned again & then cold blued, with Brownell OXY-Blue!

I tried to keep the extractor as big & strong as I could & still have it close on a empty chamber.
Two of the three 2A1 I saw had little tiny hooks left.
If you had a stuck case, the rim would rip off or the extractor hook would snap off.

I'll take it out right after CHRISTMAS & see how it works.

Best,
broomhandle

[Brithunter]

Ahhh another example fo the fine Indian quality at work :mad: good job they have several Million to use as cannon fodder as it seems a lot of their weapons wouldn't work :mad:.

[docone31]

Something is not right.
I have handled a few of the Ishys, the parts did fit. I have replaced several ejector springs. I have not had bolt issues.
Could the extractor be for a SMLE? The #2 is just about the same, the difference is the better steel, and the angles of the stock for the recoil.
The extractor spring should just drop right in.
Something is not quite right.
Does it look like this?
http://www.e-gunparts.com/DisplayAd.asp?chrProductSKU=701730&chrSuperSKU=&MC=&CatID=5830&mySort=1

[Bloodman14]

Like I said, you may have other issues, and a wrong extractor will surely cause problems!
Make sure you have the right extractor, and start over.

[broomhandle]

Hi Docone & others,

The extractor looks just like that "NOW"
It was a little higher at the tip before!

The extractor came from the best Enfield guy (Brian Dick) in the country!
Brian runs a small company that supplys Enfields & parts to guys all over the country & imports / to other countrys too.

I have had bad luck with Gun parts/Numrick in the past. slow shipping & wrong parts shipped.

Brian said the guns vary & this was the latest style extractor to be made.

It works now, so I'm happy.
If you get a chance, look really look at the Indian 2A & 2A1 and you will see many small changes between them.

Best,
broomhandle

[Multigunner]

A Lithgow action I have had ejection problems when using commercial ammo.
I finely traced that problem to the edge of the extractor becoming caught in the relief cut groove above the rim of much US manufacture .303 and other rimmed cartridges, the milsurp cases don't have this sort of groove, except HXP which I'm told are drawn and turned on old Winchester machinery given to Greece during the Cold war.
Anyway after thining the edge of the extractor it slid into the groove easily without catching and binding ,and then extraction and ejection was okay.

Enfield extractors often required some hand fitting to operate smoothly.

[broomhandle]

Hi Guys,

I'm happy you discovered the problem & repaired it.

It feels so good to get a old firearm working again. The first step is a good cleaning.

Best,
broomhandle