.41 spl

[ddixie884]

First pics posted here. 686 .41spl Clements conversion.

[gon2shoot]

Well, thats pretty interesting. How's it shoot?

[ddixie884]

Kidding aside, With 6grs of unique or 6.5grs of universal, It is comparable with a K-frame .38spl, but hits a lot harder.

[Prince555]

Thanks for the pictures --- It looks Great.
I've heard Dave Clements does a Super job on his work.

[anachronism]

Doesn't he offer a 10mm conversion for the 686 too?

[ddixie884]

I see on his web site that Clements Custom Guns does offer the 10mm conversion on the GP100 Ruger, but I think he only works on N-frame S&Ws, no longer working on L-frames. I'm glad I had mine done, before he quit.

[canyon-ghost]

Nice, that's big too!

[targetshootr]

Wow, nice. Ever since I bought those 100 pieces of Starline I've been thinking about a gun in that caliber. I'm leaning toward a Security Six if the cylinder is large enough. Don't have one to measure though.

Could he have made that 686 into a 6 shot 41 mag?

[ddixie884]

Has any body got one, or ever seen one?

[targetshootr]

Until today, there was a 5 shot 44 spl GP 100 on Clements site but it's gone now. I asked about doing one and he said he no longer offers it.

[SSGOldfart]

Humm I want one too

[Wheelguns 1961]

I am seriously considering a 41spl gp100. Can this be done with the factory 6 shot cylinder?

[rking22]

Yep, most definitely and it makes a fine shooter! Mine is a 6 inch blued GP. He sends the factory barrel out to be re bored and cuts the chambers into the factory cylinder in house. I love mine but may not have done it if the Lipseys 44 special had been available. Well, I probably would still have done it but as a 4 inch since the Lipseys 44 is a five, never too many revolvers:)

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?305345-New-Clements-GP100-in-41

[Hardcast]

Awesome gun! I have a Dave Clements 5 shooter and his work is amazing..

[Wheelguns 1961]

Yep, most definitely and it makes a fine shooter! Mine is a 6 inch blued GP. He sends the factory barrel out to be re bored and cuts the chambers into the factory cylinder in house. I love mine but may not have done it if the Lipseys 44 special had been available. Well, I probably would still have done it but as a 4 inch since the Lipseys 44 is a five, never too many revolvers:)

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?305345-New-Clements-GP100-in-41

Thanks for the link and the info! Do you still love it as much now? I am guessing yes. My idea is a little different. I am thinking of a 3” ss model with a slab sided barrel and the lett style grips with the insert. It will be a winter carry gun.

[rking22]

Yes, I still really like it! I am working on getting a load for the wadcutter and have been so busy that I have gotten nothing done, if that makes any sense. I have been shooting the Lipseys 44 because I have an old Dillon dedicated to 44 special and it’s just easy. I will post some more about the 41 when it cools off a bit.
I considered doing a short one, but decided I wanted a hunter. I have a 696, so that itch kinda scratched. I was going to have this one slabbed and cut to 5 inches but he told me the short lug 6 inch would feel like I wanted, he was right! I also considered 10mm but decided the moon clips were not for me. I like rims and heavy bullets at low(ish) pressure. Didn’t see wasting and cylinder capacity by using a shorter case. Now, you can get a factory 10mm, so even more reason to do the 41special in a custom!

[osteodoc08]

I’ve got 2 revolvers he’s worked over. Absolutely gorgeous work. He has another of mine currently. He will be retiring in the next few years according to our conversations so better get work done when you can. Pistol smiths are a dying breed.

[osteodoc08]

And Dixie, that is a fabulous piece

[Lloyd Smale]

ive got a 696 too and love the thing so my itch is scratched too. I have had dave build me two old model 357s into a 41 mag and a 44 special. he also cut the barrel and case hardened my 4570 cowboy. One other thing he did that was cool is he back bored the chambers on a couple ruger old armys that let you use about 5 grains more powder. Turned them into legit hunting guns. I like him and John Linebaugh because when you have them do work there the ones doing the work not someone they hire so they can sit in the office with there feet on the desk like some of the others. I scratched my 41 special itch years ago when I had gallagher build me a 5 shot old model drift sight single six. To be honest I never saw the big deal. Just harder to find brass for but it was cool. Boge Quinn bought that one from me.
Yes, I still really like it! I am working on getting a load for the wadcutter and have been so busy that I have gotten nothing done, if that makes any sense. I have been shooting the Lipseys 44 because I have an old Dillon dedicated to 44 special and it’s just easy. I will post some more about the 41 when it cools off a bit.
I considered doing a short one, but decided I wanted a hunter. I have a 696, so that itch kinda scratched. I was going to have this one slabbed and cut to 5 inches but he told me the short lug 6 inch would feel like I wanted, he was right! I also considered 10mm but decided the moon clips were not for me. I like rims and heavy bullets at low(ish) pressure. Didn’t see wasting and cylinder capacity by using a shorter case. Now, you can get a factory 10mm, so even more reason to do the 41special in a custom!

[gwpercle]

SWEET !
I Like It !
Gary

[Jtarm]

Doesn't he offer a 10mm conversion for the 686 too?

I’ve contacted them and they say no, the 686 forcing cone can’t handle the pressure.

Seems odd given the L-frame is chambered in .44 mag, but 10mm does operate a little higher pressure.

[rking22]

The L frame M69 has a 2 piece barrel like the 500 mags. Lots thicker barrel extension than a standard L frame. I am curious about the GP 100 10mm, I saw a picture that seemed to show something different than my 44 special.

[Jtarm]

The L frame M69 has a 2 piece barrel like the 500 mags. Lots thicker barrel extension than a standard L frame. I am curious about the GP 100 10mm, I saw a picture that seemed to show something different than my 44 special.

Ah, thanks for the insight.

[megasupermagnum]

The L frame M69 has a 2 piece barrel like the 500 mags. Lots thicker barrel extension than a standard L frame. I am curious about the GP 100 10mm, I saw a picture that seemed to show something different than my 44 special.

I can't find much info on it, but the 10mm auto version has some kind of hexagonal barrel extension that is quite thick. The 44 special version is nothing but a reamed out 357 mag version, and leaves it very thin. Fine for 44 special, but not magnum.

I'm still very much hoping Ruger comes out with a 5 shot 41 magnum GP100, but I'm starting to think about the 10mm auto version, and rechambered for 10mm magnum.

[rking22]

That was what I noticed, would be nice if someone who has the 10mm GP could post some detailed photos. If it is what it looks like then it should be able to handle the 41 mag, at the barrel extension anyway. May have too short a cylinder for the 41mag, may hold a 41 mag along my special cyl and see what’s what. The 41 and 44 special do all I need in my world, so it’s kinda academic for me. Besides, I have a 22 oz titanium tracker in 41 mag that scratches that itch quite well! Still curious about how Ruger did the 10mm GP barrel.

[megasupermagnum]

I'm sure the GP100 will handle the 41 magnum no problem at all. Gary Reeder has been doing conversions for years. 41 magnum is specified to the same OAL as the 357 magnum, so of course the cylinder is long enough. It would be nice to have a cylinder long enough for the Keith bullet, but I could manage.

[ranchman]

not to hijack BUT....

what performance does the 41 special actually offer over say a right loaded 38 special +p, 38/44, or a 357 magnum with factory 158 grain jsp?

Offers full 41caliber holes, bigger wider meplat's for increased frontal shock, and bullets can be had in 250 grains or higher. It enables a midframed-gun ease of carry, that can pack damn near the punch of magnums, only it does so at lower pressure, with less powder, in a smaller package.

Guy gets big-bore, game worthy performance leaps and bounds over the best 357 and does it on the very same packable platform everyone prefers for long hours or daily, all-day use (the 357-frames). You get a 250gr bullet @970fps & ability to turn that up to 1200fps if desired ... and actually, in a round about way, it's the favoured, timeless 44 special arguments all over again, only this time it's without old historical guns to be of concern in hindering it's pressure threshold should SAMMI & the manufacturers bring it to market in factory form. It's the perfect scenario really for a new "factory" product the likes of what the market's cried for the last 100 years... (being a 975/1000fps factory, store shelf 44special)

Done right, some company could hit a real home-run far as I'm concerned... 41 special is a great, very versatile round. Smaller guns. Lighter & handier. No muzzle flash or shock like the 357's have. True Big bore. It's just a best of all worlds kind of arrangement... have to try it

[gwpercle]

I have two Questions .
Can regular 41 Magnum dies be used to reload the 41 Special cases ?
Usually the shorter cases can't be crimped in dies made for the longer Magnum case .

I wouldn't mind buying some 41 Special brass and loading up some 41 Special Loads , I have the 41 special data , but not if I have to find some way to shorten the crimp die ... I have no tools or machine skills to do it with .
Anyone making 41 special seat/crimp dies ?
How do you load them ?
My avatar is a 41 Magnum,
Gary

[rking22]

I don’t remember doing anything to my Lee 41 mag dies to load my 41 specials. It had the adjustment range needed.

[megasupermagnum]

Offers full 41caliber holes, bigger wider meplat's for increased frontal shock, and bullets can be had in 250 grains or higher. It enables a midframed-gun ease of carry, that can pack damn near the punch of magnums, only it does so at lower pressure, with less powder, in a smaller package.

Guy gets big-bore, game worthy performance leaps and bounds over the best 357 and does it on the very same packable platform everyone prefers for long hours or daily, all-day use (the 357-frames). You get a 250gr bullet @970fps & ability to turn that up to 1200fps if desired ... and actually, in a round about way, it's the favoured, timeless 44 special arguments all over again, only this time it's without old historical guns to be of concern in hindering it's pressure threshold should SAMMI & the manufacturers bring it to market in factory form. It's the perfect scenario really for a new "factory" product the likes of what the market's cried for the last 100 years... (being a 975/1000fps factory, store shelf 44special)

Done right, some company could hit a real home-run far as I'm concerned... 41 special is a great, very versatile round. Smaller guns. Lighter & handier. No muzzle flash or shock like the 357's have. True Big bore. It's just a best of all worlds kind of arrangement... have to try it

A 250 grain at 1200 fps, I have my doubts that is at lower pressure or less powder. I say cut out the middle man. I want a real 41 magnum GP100, come on Ruger! :guntootsmiley:

[rking22]

I get 1175 with 13 gr of 2400 with a 230 gr LFN HP out of my 6inch GP100. Going to drop that back a bit as I was only wanting 1000 or so. Shoots lights out, and deer don’t go far. I suspect that load is running in the 22,000 psi range, more than I like in the mid frame gun. Plenty enough for Tennessee. I have a 41 mag to tracker, actually shoot the same load in it, plenty enough in a 22 oz gun!

Would seem to me that if Ruger did the same barrel design( whatever it is) that the 10mm uses then 41mag could be in the cards. Cyl will be about like the tracker, full 41mag but needs short nosed bullets, or special brass. Kinda like the 327 single 7, long enough but crowded. My 41 special is 6 shot, a factory 41 mag would doubtless be 5. One for the deer and 4 spares :)

[megasupermagnum]

That was the old argument, they would never have a 41 magnum because they would need to make it a 5 shot. Well they have had a 5 shot 44 special for years now. Then they beefed up the barrel for the 10mm auto. All they have left to do... is do it. The short cylinder length shouldn't be a huge problem. It's not like the single 7 where you can't go one idota over, you can run up to 1.650" OAL in the GP100, which shouldn't be a huge detriment to all but the very heaviest of bullets. As you say, things get abusive fast in a lighter gun, I think 250 grains is plenty heavy in a 36-38 ounce gun.

[RJM52]

"A 250 grain at 1200 fps, I have my doubts that is at lower pressure or less powder. I say cut out the middle man. I want a real 41 magnum GP100, come on Ruger!"

...before you get what you wish for...you may want to pull the trigger of a GP-100 MC 10mm with 200-220grain Buffalo Bore or Underwood Hard Cast... My loads are running 1250 with a 200 grain from a semi and are NOT peasant to shoot in the GP...

And that would be the nice thing about getting a "modern" Special...one could make it "special"...like instead of 17-20K psi for the .38 and .44 get SAAMI specs of 30K psi and watch the thing rock...

Bob

[rking22]

RJM52, seems you have a 10mm GP100. Could you post a couple closeups of the barrel extension? I have never been able to put hands on one and wondering what they did to beef that up is driving me nuts! If you know any details about that design or a link it would be appreciated.

[megasupermagnum]

"A 250 grain at 1200 fps, I have my doubts that is at lower pressure or less powder. I say cut out the middle man. I want a real 41 magnum GP100, come on Ruger!"

...before you get what you wish for...you may want to pull the trigger of a GP-100 MC 10mm with 200-220grain Buffalo Bore or Underwood Hard Cast... My loads are running 1250 with a 200 grain from a semi and are NOT peasant to shoot in the GP...

And that would be the nice thing about getting a "modern" Special...one could make it "special"...like instead of 17-20K psi for the .38 and .44 get SAAMI specs of 30K psi and watch the thing rock...

Bob

I've shot both a 200 grain that went 1225 fps and 220 grain that went 1145 fps from my 357 magnum GP100. They weren't bad at all. Unfortunately, and contrary to any stability wisdom, the 220 grain seems to shoot better slower, but nothing has been as good as the 200 grain bullets, and I still can't really find either a benefit over the 175 grain Keith. I've only tried the 220 grain 10mm auto in a Sig P220 semi auto, and they sure had some pop!

I currently have a S&W model 57 for 41 magnum, and it does shoot very well. It is also shorter and sleeker than my 44 magnum redhawk, but in reality is not lighter. Unfortunately it starts having cylinder rotating problems with bullets around 240 grains. It's not the end of the world, but my current accuracy load is a 220 grain at 1150 fps. Is that enough of a boost over my 357 magnum load of 175 grain at 1225 fps to justify a gun that is almost 30% heavier? I'm not so sure. A 41 magnum GP100 would not be a shoot all day gun. It's compact power.

[ddixie884]

I have two Questions .
Can regular 41 Magnum dies be used to reload the 41 Special cases ?
Usually the shorter cases can't be crimped in dies made for the longer Magnum case .

I wouldn't mind buying some 41 Special brass and loading up some 41 Special Loads , I have the 41 special data , but not if I have to find some way to shorten the crimp die ... I have no tools or machine skills to do it with .
Anyone making 41 special seat/crimp dies ?
How do you load them ?
My avatar is a 41 Magnum,
Gary

The only .41 magnum crimp die that won't crimp a .41spl is the RCBS. Dillon, Lee, Hornady and Redding will all crimp with no alteration. This is my experience.....

[ranchman]

A 250 grain at 1200 fps, I have my doubts that is at lower pressure or less powder. I say cut out the middle man. I want a real 41 magnum GP100, come on Ruger! :guntootsmiley:

The trick to it is bullet selection. There are 41mag bullets 250+ that have more bullet below the crimp than others (which eats up case space, cuts capacity & therefore raises pressure) but there are also heavies that are designed to give maximum case capacity instead, which allow pressures to stay moderate while peaking performance at civil levels compared to what the full house magnums do ... and THAT is what makes it viable in the mid-frames. It's the same thing that makes this caliber so desirable in place of a big bore magnum too. Like I already stated, it's true 40+ big bore performance suited for the handiest most pack friendly guns out there. It's the ideal all-arounder for an outdoorsman, and could even easily cross over to CO's & LEO's the way the 41mag was intended but failed to do due to manufacturers frame-size choice and where the ammo companies set the original loads to be. They overshot it then, and missed the mark right off the hop. The "special" could right that wrong for good this time.

Truthfully, I don't believe 250's @1200 are even making 30,000psi in the 41special... I would argue they're more in line with the 44special Keith load that tests in the 25,000psi range long as the loader choses their bullet design correctly. Done right, in the right guns, the calibers potential in the midframes is enormous. The single action midframe market is without a doubt, an untapped market for something a step above what the 357 can do, but below the bellowing bronc buster big bores from 44 & up. It's about the last perfected shooter/packer avenue left undone anymore.....

[megasupermagnum]

If you are going to be loading to 30,000 PSI, just accept the great 41 magnum. No need to reinvent the wheel. I load down my 41 magnum, there's nothing you can't do with the magnum cartridge, that you can with the special. I simply do not see Ruger ever introducing it. 41 magnum is a long term commercially offered cartridge of moderate popularity, it is a good choice. If Ruger were to introduce an odd ball, they would be much better off reintroducing the 401 powermag, and calling it the 400 Ruger or some such. They would only need to lengthen the chambers of their 10mm auto versions.

[gwpercle]

I don’t remember doing anything to my Lee 41 mag dies to load my 41 specials. It had the adjustment range needed.

Thanks for reply .

Gary

[gwpercle]

The only .41 magnum crimp die that won't crimp a .41spl is the RCBS. Dillon, Lee, Hornady and Redding will all crimp with no alteration. This is my experience.....

Thank You,
My dies are older ..1 set is Herter's and the other are Bonanza , picked up for $2.00 .
One of the crimp dies should work .

One of the reasons for loading 41 Special is the empties eject fully and cleanly and they are easy to distinguish from magnum loads .
As if I need more stuff to load.
Yeah ... it's just an excuse but I can't help it !
:lovebooli
Gary

[Lloyd Smale]

I bought a cheap lee set of dies and put the seating die on the bench grinder and ground it down till it was short enough and took the sharp edge off with a Dremel. Took all of about 5 minutes. My rcbs 41 mag set worked fine as is.
I have two Questions .
Can regular 41 Magnum dies be used to reload the 41 Special cases ?
Usually the shorter cases can't be crimped in dies made for the longer Magnum case .

I wouldn't mind buying some 41 Special brass and loading up some 41 Special Loads , I have the 41 special data , but not if I have to find some way to shorten the crimp die ... I have no tools or machine skills to do it with .
Anyone making 41 special seat/crimp dies ?
How do you load them ?
My avatar is a 41 Magnum,
Gary

[Good Cheer]

After having the Redhawk and the Blackhawk wanted a lighter weight .41 so finally got a 3" barrel .41 Mag made by Charter Arms. Shooting full house magnums in it isn't my intent but If I wanted to there it is. Trigger pull, double action handling, grips, sights, all up to my expectations. The only downsides are the reduced length of the cylinder compared to other brands and the chambers being spot on the money as far as SAAMI dimensions go. None of the SAAMI tolerances were used up in manufacture. That effects your reloads in two ways. (1), cartridge overall length cannot be extended as oh say with Lyman #410426. And (2), you cannot use over-diameter boolits without the cartridge case starting to get an interference fit on the chamber walls. In other words, what works in your Blackhawk might not fly because the piece has no slop in it.
For me the Charter Pug is an acceptable modern analog to the turn of the 19th Century personal protection revolvers. I don't much like stainless even though it's good for rust resistance in warm moist salty environments like under pillows and belts and it's over powered if you load it that way but those aren't really complaints. It's accurate enough that I could rabbit hunt with it if I wanted to, same as always did with the 4" barrel Security Six.
I may trim some brass to use with the #410426.
My load for double action drill is the old NEI 185 grain round nosed plain base, retraining my out of practice musculature.
I'm shopping around for a single cavity (maybe a 410610 if any were ever made) gas check for conversion to a hollow point wadcutter to be cast very soft.

[RJM52]

Congratulations on getting the CA .41....have not seen one for sale lately. Just bid on a Taurus Ti Tracker 2" but quit at $900...

As to the CA shorter cylinder, the Taurus Trackers are the same and now only use STARLINE .41 Special brass in 4" and 6" guns. Not only can one use any bullet but the empties eject easier... And as you said, you can always use Magnums if needed.

Have you looked at the cast HPs that GT Bullets has? Great prices.... Matt's Bullets also has a 190 HP full WC cast from a MP mold that makes a dandy HP for a lightweight .41...

Running most of my loads with 7-8 grains of Unique. Also running some of the MP 165 grain HP available from GT somewhat warmer but can't recall the load right now and I'm not home to look it up..

Have fun with the new gun...Bob