COW in 44WCF?

[Catch]

Having several 44 WCF rifles I have had a problem with the bullets sinking into the cases in the magazines, and although I have tried everything I can think of some of them still do it. After reading about using Cream of Wheat as a filler in some rifles, I wondered if I could use this to fill the case to prevent the bullets from sinking. Even with Trail Boss there still is not enough to keep this from happening.
I have played all I care to with different dies, different expanding rods and gone so far as to have them wasp waisted looking and they still slink. I suppose if this will work, I will need to cut the charge. Has anyone tried this? Opinions will be appreciated. THanks in advance...........Catch

[doubs43]

Have you tried a good firm crimp on the bullets? If done correctly, the bullets shouldn't budge under recoil.

[Dale53]

Bullet design has a lot to do with maintaining bullet position in a lever action magazine. If there is a good crimp groove, using a good crimp should resolve that.

Of course, the original cartridges were filled with compressed black powder so the bullets COULDN'T recede. However, a good crimp groove in the bullet and a separate crimp die should work well.

Dale53

[NickSS]

I have used corn meal filler in black powder reduced loads so that I could get a compressed powder charge. I suppose it would work with smokeless powder but you do need to watch pressures. With black it is not a problem as the amount I am using only weighs about 10 gr and with black and a 400 gr bullet that amount is insignificant.

[missionary5155]

Good morning
Purchase a Lee Factory Crimp Die... problem solved.
Yes I have used Cow in ALL my 44-40's. As stated above "Start using Cow from the beginning " of load developement. Do not just decide to add it to the case of a near max round. The 44-40 IS a bottle neck and that COW has to be compressed to get through the neck.
In my 44-40 1892 carbines I started with 6 grains Unique + enough COW to loosly fill the neck to about 1/8 from the top. I used a lee dipper for repeatability. I added powder in .5 grain increments BUT also reducing the COW to stay at that 1/8 below case mouth level.
I DO NOT recommend more than 8 grains Unique + COW in a 1892 Winchester Carbine. NEVER USE THAT LOAD IN YOUR REVOLVER.
If you need more power get a 44 mag or 45 L Colt or better yet a 45-70 and really have fun.

Merry Christmas !!!

[405]

COW or full case of powder is not the best way to keep bullet in place.
The best way is to use a bullet that has a crimp groove in the right place. For the 44-40 that would be a 44-40 bullet! I think Lee, RCBS and Saeco make 44-40 dedicated molds for 200 grainers. I have both carbines and handguns in 44-40 and have never had a bullet slipping or jamming problem... from fairly stout carbine loads to mild handgun loads. With the wedge-shaped crimp groove in the bullet I shoot I set the seater/crimp die so the case mouth is butted up against the rear edge of the crimp groove at seating depth. The die is also adjusted so the crimp shoulder puts a fairly light crimp on the mouth. No need to scrunch anything down!!! All that does is wear cases out early, hurt accuracy and may actually loosen bullet neck tension.

Pic shows 44-40 loaded round and bullet

[August]

I use Circle Fly wads between the powder and the bullet to achieve pistol loads that allow me to hold onto the gunz during a match.

I cut the Circle Fly wads in half with a razor blade and drop enough powder to allow the wad to support the bullet. This takes a bit of fiddling, but works. Circle Fly makes wads in all pistol calibers -- a little known fact. However, none of the retailers carries them. Call Circle Fly directly to get wads in the size you require.

Additionally, I use a Lee Factory Crimp Die. This is necessary in my set-up because the bullets I'm using don't have their crimp groove in the proper location for roll-crimping. The Lee FCD makes rounds that are 99% solid. Sadly, that remaining 1% will bite you in the ass during the most important match of the year. So, supporting the bullet from underneath, in addition to the LFCD, seems to be the huckleberry.

I wish these Old rounds came with more standardized dimensions, but the "hobby" would be less interesting if that were the case, I suppose (on good days).

[59sharps]

Having several 44 WCF rifles I have had a problem with the bullets sinking into the cases in the magazines, and although I have tried everything I can think of some of them still do it. After reading about using Cream of Wheat as a filler in some rifles, I wondered if I could use this to fill the case to prevent the bullets from sinking. Even with Trail Boss there still is not enough to keep this from happening.
I have played all I care to with different dies, different expanding rods and gone so far as to have them wasp waisted looking and they still slink. I suppose if this will work, I will need to cut the charge. Has anyone tried this? Opinions will be appreciated. THanks in advance...........Catch

I use the Rcbs 429-240 Sil w/o a gas check applied in mine using 22grn 3fffg Goex and COW as a filler. no signs of excessive pressure. The round works at 100 yrds

[Four Fingers of Death]

Get a Big Lube Mav Dutchman mould, fill with black, using the 'Big Lube rule of thumb.'

Fill with black until the big lube boolit can be pushed down on the powder and stops at the crimp groove, you have worked out the optimum charge. Apply a crimp. You'll scare the b%%&#S out of anyone close and create lots of smoke and noise, perfect!

[cajun shooter]

You are probably using the Lyman 427098 which is the design of the orignal 44-40 bullet. The round was loaded with a full case of BP and the bullet sat on it and needed no filler. As the above posters have pointed out you can do two things. Change to a crimp style bullet which RCBS and Saeco make or buy the Lee Factory Crimp Die. I would buy the die as it makes loading the 44-40 a easy thing to do without filler. The use of fillers can cause problems and make for a bad day. All the molds will cost a lot more than the die with the Mav Dutchman costing over $100 delivered. I use the 427098 myself as I have found it to be a very accurate bullet with both smokeless and BP.