Anyone load Black in shotshells??

[218bee]

Been toying with the idea of scaring the boys out at the Trap range by gettin one of my old clunker single shots out and loading the shells with the Holy Black. Anyone of ya'all play with that before? Where to find load data. I'd be wanting a 12ga load preferably with plastic hulls and wads. Not looking to break 25 strait (if I can see em) just looking to have some fun and raise some eyebrows. Thinking if I used a plastic wad I'd need a smaller one as I think the black would take up more case volume than the 20gr of Green Dot I'm currently loading. Any thoughts or a direction to turn

[oksmle]

This should help you out. I've loaded a bunch for my .410s & a double Stevens 20 ga. Used brass shells though. http://www.goexpowder.com/load-chart.html

[1874Sharps]

218bee,

I load 12 gauge with BP for CAS shooting matches for an old turn-of-the-century Remington SXS. It is amazingly easy to load, too. Plastic wads can be used, but this can cause some tarry, stringy fouling, too. I use fiber or cork wads instead. The process is as follows:

Take a primed hull and charge it with a scoop measure of around 75 grains of FG or FFG and tap on the side of the hull a couple of times to help settle it. Seat an over-powder card wad (these are about 1/8" thick and are tough). Seat a cushioning wad column (you will have to find what length will work for your load) and use the same powder scoop measure to now measure the shot and dump it in. Next crimp the shell and you are done. If you have a MEC or such, you could probably set it up to deliver the same volume of powder and shot. Then all you would have to do is feed it the primed hulls and the wads.

I mentioned how the cushion column would have to be adjusted for length. The goal here is to get all the components into the hull and then crimp it so that the crimp looks good and the column is firm in the hull. Wahoo, you are ready for the trap range!!!

[John Boy]

Bee, they are a piece of cake:
AA Hulls - Winchester 209 - 82gr FFg - Red AA Wad - 1 1/8 shot - Crimp aka a square load.
Here's a good read ... http://www.theopenrange.net/forum/index.php?topic=1892.0

[Four Fingers of Death]

I've only used Circle Fly over powder and cushion wads, but most of the cowboy shooters I know, use plastic wads and use hot water after the shoot to get rid of the plastic in the bore.

One guy I know make his wads out of the waxed boxes bananas come in, I gotta try that one soon.

From what I have learnt, a square load is the go, that is powder and shot same volume. No sense putting in extra powder as it will open the pattern apparently.

[Muddy Creek Sam]

I load my 1887 12ga Shells in Brass Magtech with the Circle Fly Wads. They are a real hoot to shoot.

Sam :D

[Four Fingers of Death]

I load my 1887 12ga Shells in Brass Magtech with the Circle Fly Wads. They are a real hoot to shoot.

Sam :D

I have a half slab of those (250). What wads do you use, etc? I have had so much conflicting info, I'm half a mind to sell them. I'll be using mine in an IAC Hammer gun and an old London build hammer gun with Damascus barrels.

I imagine they'd drop out of the chamber nicely.

[218bee]

I knew you guys could help...doesn't sound too bad. Thanks for the good info. I'll let ya know how I do

[Dale53]

"Back in the day", my father and I shot both smokeless and black powder shells on trap. We made all of our own wads (money was really scarce and that allowed us to shoot for pennies).

Black powder shot shells do NOT take a back seat to smokeless (except for the smoke, etc) for working well.

The "square" recipe is the way to go. If you want to use separate wads in your brass shells, Ballistic Products has what you need:

http://www.ballisticproducts.com/

Here is "Circle Fly" wads:

http://www.circlefly.com/

Keep in mind that if you use brass shells, the case walls are a lot thinner than paper and plastic shells. You'll need 11 gauge wads instead of 12 gauge (for 12 gauge). You build your wad column to match the case capacity with plastic and paper. With brass, just put in a .135" over powder wad over the powder charge, a 3/8" cushion wad, drop the shot and then an over shot wad secured with water glass or dupont duco cement. The wad column doesn't have to be clear to the end. No crimp and the cases will last forever. However, you will have to occasionally size the brass cases. This can be a problem as the cases require a serious press and serious effort to resize. And-d-d, of course, you will need a sizing die (that requires a press that will take a bigger diameter die, etc).

It has been so long since I have loaded brass cases, I don't remember how many "trap" loads you can get with brass before needing sizing. The heavier the load, the more often you will have to size. All of this depends on how thick your brass cases are, etc. It is fun to do but brass cases are seriously more expensive...

One more thing:
Using black powder, a .135" thick card wad works perfectly well. However, with smokeless (using separate wads) you DO need a plastic over powder wad. You tend to have "bloopers" with an inadequate over powder wad. Of course, this problem is eliminated with full plastic shot columns.

FWIW
Dale53

[longbow]

You may find this useful or at least interesting:

http://www.tbullock.com/bpsg.html

Longbow

[missionary5155]

Good safternoon
The old reprints of the IDEAL Loading Tool books show 85 grains 2F as a standard load.
I have shot numerous and it will penetrate a common can at 30 yards with #6 hard shot.
I have used this load on crows at 40 yards and it will wack them with authority.
This was my starting load with .685 round ball and I took it to 135 grains in my FOX B 12 guage Improved cylinder bores & my Mossy with the Cylinder barrel. THAT is all the FUN I needed.
Black powder will "Eat Holes" through plastic hulls. BP developes alot of HEAT on firing. Paper holds up somewhat better but they do not last forever. Brass shells will last a long time (maybe never wear out) BUT remember to clean then with water (and your barrel).
Remember to leave no air between the charge & the powder. Solid wads of some kind. I do not recommend the "cusion wads" with Black powder.

[10 ga]

I have a friend who is a Parker dbl bbl aficianado. They have regular sanctioned shoots and BP is required. Many of them use the original damascus bbl guns. Might be worth a google. I'll contact him and see if he can direct to a site with info and I'll post here. 10 ga

[Springfield]

I shoot BP shotgun at least twice a month at Cowboy shoots. John Boy has the right idea, maybe just a little less powder than shot to keep the shot column together, at least for me. Use hot water and a spiral tornado brush to clean with and the melted wads will push right out.

[218bee]

Thanks again guys...after the holidays I'll be experimenting.
Jon Boy Springfield so do I assume 80 or so gr of black is about the same volume of 1 1/8 of shot? hence "square load" and is the red win wad for what amount of shot in a "normal" load maybe an ounce? just curious...it seems easy that a way
Guys using felt/fiber wads over powder.....what type compression?? just ram down by hand or do you set your MEC etc to compress. I dont worry about it using smokeless. I guess I'd be curious about the compression using plastic wads also. Thanks again guys

[cajun shooter]

218 bee, Don't get caught up on the square load thing. It was used from the first reloading of BP shotshells and was an easy way to load. You used one dipper and loaded both shot and powder. You can play around with the amount of powder. Loads using 50 grains of 2F will give about the same as a 20 ga. load. I use 2F in the 70 gr area. Don't be afraid to use plastic wads as I use them all the time. The BP burns hot and therefore melts the wads some. For quick clean up use Windex with vinegar. Just spray a bunch down the barrels and you will have what looks to be the skin of a shedding snake come out in one string. The gun will have a shiney bore after that. Make sure that you take time to pattern your gun. With BP loads it is easy to blow holes in your shot string and have the donut hole. That is mighty strange when you shoot at a target just 10 yds away and watch it stand up . Later David

[218bee]

Cajun, ok say I pattern the given load and find a "hole" in the middle of the pattern...what would I change??? more/less powder...or wad...or both??

[cajun shooter]

I start with less powder and work on more shot. If you use the plastic wads they will also help with this. In CAS there is one club that has some heavy KD's and the only way that I was able to put them down was more shot with wad. Later David

[northmn]

Last duck season I loaded some Bismuth in a BP shotshell in my double hammeer 16 gauge. It was a very humid foggy day The ducks got up I missed the first shot and the smoke just hung there. I could not see the ducks until they were at least 100 yards away and did not get a second shot. Kind of thought it was funny. next time I ahe to remember to run in after the first shot or make it good. I use primed Cheddite hulls and roll crimp to get a good hunting load.

Northmn

[Dale53]

northmn;
For several years, I hunted upland game with a Greener muzzleloader shotgun. I early on learned to shoot and step to the right or the left a couple of steps to see if I hit my rabbits or birds. It was a VERY good hunting tool and certainly gave me bragging rights amongst my friends (they didn't realize how effective it really was and thought "I" was something special - I never did tell them different:mrgreen:).

Dale53

[cajun shooter]

I shot a CAS match 2 weeks ago and we had one stage with two poppers. That's where you hit the round steel plate and it launches a clay bird. There was no wind at all and I missed both birds because of the smoke sitting there in my line of sight. You can't move while shooting in CAS. Every body was laughing at my smoke clouds blocking my vision.

[Four Fingers of Death]

I shot a CAS match 2 weeks ago and we had one stage with two poppers. That's where you hit the round steel plate and it launches a clay bird. There was no wind at all and I missed both birds because of the smoke sitting there in my line of sight. You can't move while shooting in CAS. Every body was laughing at my smoke clouds blocking my vision.

Dontja just hate that?

[John Boy]

Aw Yes ... Black Powder for Waterfowling:drinks:

Look closely at the picture .... It's a 1901 Parkerhurst, 12ga damascus barrel with external hammers. Yep, 1 1/4oz of #4 Bismuth and 96 gr of FFg powder. Folks, this load is deadly out to 40 + yds!
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd220/Meadowmucker/Hunting/2010%20Jan%2009/IMGP0780.jpg

[Chihuahua Floyd]

I have occasionally shot CAS with BP. I have both the brass shells from Magtech and Win AA.
Win AA burn thru very quickly with BP. Load using plastic wads or nitro card, fiber cushion wads and light over shot card. Seat wads, measure powder and crimp as normal in MEC 600 Jr.
Magtech brass shells. Use 11 ga components due to thinner sidewalls. Same as above just don't use the MEC except to measure shotand glue overshot card in, no crimp. I seat the nitro card and fiber wads with a pieceof dowel rod about 6" long. Note: Magtech does not recommend smokeless powder be used with their brass hulls.
I use a 60g, 7/8 oz load, one nitro card, 1 & 1/2 fiber wads, overshot wad punched from old cereal boxs with a homemade cutter. I have both 11 and 12 ga nitro cards and wads.
CF

[robroy]

I was just given a 12 Ga W Richard (NOT a Wessley Richards) double hammer gun. The stamping on the rib says Belgium Laminated Steel and you can sure see the lamination once the barrel is off. There's a lot of smithing to be done to this gun before it can shoot again, starting with fitting a new hinge pin. I'm glad to find this thread so I can make some ammo for this rough old roach once I get it back into shape.

[Four Fingers of Death]

I have an old Damascened Bbl hammer gun, the only markings are 'London.' It is in excellent condition and had been handed down from father to son for generations. I happened to be in the shop when this spritely old guy came in and said that there was no one in his family that was prepared to take it over. My mate who had the shop was a bit of a soft touch and said that he didn't really have a market for it, but would give him $100 for it (he has since gone out of business due to his good nature and a downturned economy). The other shop in the area told him they wern't interested. I pulled out $150 and a deal was done, Chris got $50 for doing the paperwork and storing the gun till I got a permit. The old guy was very pleased that it was going to a hunter and would be looked after.

It is chambered for 2 1/2" shells and I have a roll crimper from precision, etc and am looking forward to getting a pile of work out of the way and getting some shells to shoot in it. It will be used on rabbits, hares, foxes (and maybe ducks and phesants interstate) and it will also be used at the Vintagers shoots, where everyone dresses up in Victorian gear and uses side by sides. I will use my Bonehill in the morning with smokless loads (Sunday shoots and the neighbours like a sleep in) and their range allows black powder in the afternoon, so I will roll it out then.