A possible improvement to the Pat Marlin Tool

[Ben]

I think most of you who make your own g/c's with a Pat Marlin tool will be interested in this.

( I want to stress that Pat may or may not approve of this modification to his g/c making tool.
Before making this modification, you are best advised to discuss this with Pat )

I've tried .0092 AL and found it lacking as a gas check material. Way too thin for the shanks on most of my .30 cal bullets.

I located some super soft .014 AL. ( 50 feet of it X 4 " wide ) with the help of Mugs here on Cast Boolits. Many thanks Mugs for going out of your way to help me ! ! !

While Mugs and I were sharing PM's back and forth trying to get me some .014 soft AL, he offered a very useful tip.

Seems he has cut a very slight bevel at the top of the g/c forming portion of the Pat Marlin g/c forming die ( see photo attached ).

This makes all the difference in the world. The g/c is formed with about 1/2 the physical effort. No loud " popping " when the g/c is formed. Forms so smooth ! ! !

Even better, no " bottle cap appearance ". I thought that it was worth a try on my tool. Glad I made the modification !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thought you might like to see these photos.



Ben

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/PICT0004-5.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/343.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/PICT0002-12.jpg

Here is a very crude drawing that will help you see where the bevel is cut to accomplish the improvement in the forming process. Again, if I were you I'd discuss this with Pat before undertaking it with your Pat Marlin g/c forming dies.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/434.jpg

I used some of the newly formed checks on my old dependable 311413 bullets.
Has always been a super accurate bullet for my in my .30 cal. rifles. When this rain stops, I'll try some of these ( They are sized .3102 " with a Lee push thru that I've opened up myself )

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/PICT0001-32.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/PICT0002-17.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/PICT0003-22.jpg

[badgeredd]

Ben,

I mad a similar change to Charlie's hand check tool and like you I found it improved the effort required and the appearance of the finished check. I would imagine that Pat will be interested in the minor mod for his tools. He seems to be open to reasonable suggestions for his products.

Edd

[StarMetal]

Hmmm....I thought the bevel was elementary machining knowledge. All my tools have them.

Now as for the "bottlecap" check. Don't know if you know it or not but those jagged edges help secure the check to the bullet shanks. They give them a "bite". See Hornady's have athat thicker edge to crimp on.

You done good on the bevel, it keeps from tearing material and makes for smoother operation.

I don't care what the checks look like, I'm out for their performance.

It's common knowledge that as the bullet caliber gets larger the check material gets thicker. I've said it before else where that the .09 stuff is only good up to 6.5 caliber.

Joe

[Mugs]

Joe
My idea in doing the mod. was the lack of tearing would leave the top lip of the check thicker for a tighter fit.
Mugs
IHMSA 5940L

[StarMetal]

I would think what determines the thickness of the edge is how well the disc cutter punch cuts them. If the cup forming punch is ruining the edges pushing them in the cup forming part of the setup (yes beveling that as mentioned sure helps) I would think there is too tight of fit between the punch, the metal, and the cup form die.

At any rate some check makers that leave the jagged edge all the ways around the cup mouth or even the creases is preferred by many as it grips the shank better.

The worse scenario of not having that bevel is the edge is sharpen and causes the punch to just punch through the disc. If it wasn't doing that it sounds like Pat had it pretty well done. I do believe I would have maybe just polished the edge up first and try that.

Joe

[madcaster]

I like it,I do not have the tool,but it is a good ideal to help cast bullet shooters...

[Ben]

I like the concept that if " hard times " come our way that I'd still be able to produce g/c's in volume.

Ben

[Fat-beeman]

I wish some of you was close to me to exchange ideas and look at that check maker in person. I have been useing checks on most my boolits I shoot lot modified mil surp
Don

[Ben]

Don:

If you could share a specific problem with us, hopefully we could help you with the problem.

Welcome to the Board.

Ben

[PatMarlin]

Mugs brought this up to me with the mod he did, and his checks look like yours Ben. Right now I just have my plate full with CNC setup, but as soon as that's done I can easily focus on changes and mods.

I also believe the bottle cap helps give the checks a wider range of holding power depending on your boolit shank and the material used.

Some of the dies (like the one Mugs got) had a sharper ridge on the forming cup hole, which was not my entention, but got by me. A little honing will fix it, or more depending on what your needs are.

Today I was working on CNC machining, programming profiles to machine the female die, instead of drilling. The options are limitless with the CNC and you can do any choice of contour you wish.

I own a wide range of 30 cal molds varying from loose shanks to fat diameters, and I like the bottle cap as it has worked for them all with one die.

[PatMarlin]

Also, I seen no evidence of the cup forming punch ruining the edges. And there is plenty of clearance between the cup and the die.

I formed .021 copper that was anything but soft. Wasn't optimum, but I'll be darn if it didn't still cut a disk and form it.

[madcaster]

PatMarlin,
Just what I figured,you are showing class by understanding even your inventions can be improved/modified upon.Good man![smilie=s:
Jeff

[PatMarlin]

Thank you for the compliment Jeff.

Well everything can be improved and you know the guys here at CB are going to make improvements on anything they can.

I keep an open mind and probably have sucked up more knowledge and pushed myself to learn this machining much more than usual. This has been one hard year constantly overcoming obstacles, pushing myself, and now learning CNC g-code programming.

Did I mention I had never even turned on a metal lathe prior to January this year, much less go into production with one (3 now) ...:groner:

... ... ...:mrgreen:

[PatMarlin]

Just worked out some design changes that will work nicely for larger calibers up to the SW.500. I've been battling the flu so the least I can do is try to get something done on the computer.

Here's my new bouncing baby Hardinge "Super Precision" with Fagor 8025TG control before it got it's complete cleanup...

http://www.patmarlins.com/MyCNC.jpg


...

[PatMarlin]

I've about maxed out my room for this section of the shop:


http://www.patmarlins.com/shoptitemachines.jpg


...

[PatMarlin]

http://www.patmarlins.com/shoptitemachines2.jpg

...

[PatMarlin]

Staying T-shirt toasty warm though. Whooo Hooo ...:mrgreen:

http://www.patmarlins.com/toasty.jpg

[Mugs]

In talking to Ace they show Amerimax aluminum valley flashing to be a standard item. The .014 thickness is the standard the .009 is the economy. 68104 is Amerimax part # for the .014 4"X 50' roll. If not in your local Ace have them check there warehouse, free shipping to your store.
Mugs
IHMSA 5940L

[RayinNH]

I've about maxed out my room for this section of the shop:

Pat, I still see little pieces of floor here and there :mrgreen:...Ray

[PatMarlin]

That's the Buckshot machining method... leave no floor space exsposed at any one given time.

[Ben]

.014 thickness AL g/s's, .30 cal., Made w/ Pat Marlins g/c maker.
A source for the aluminum that was used to make these gas checks is:

68104 is Amerimax part # for the .014 4"X 50' roll. If not in your local Ace Hardware store, have them check there warehouse. They offer free shipping to your local store.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/PICT0003-25.jpg

[Fat-beeman]

hey Ben would part with some then gas checks like to try out about 25 be glad to pay you
Don

[Ben]

Fat-beeman :

PM sent.

Ben

[Fat-beeman]

hello
got some checks from Ben loaded them up on my 30 cal 160 gr. for my 30/30 got close to 1/2 inch groups at 100 yds. very happy with them. seem to hold on the lee 160 gr. mold with w/w I ran at about 2100 fps. now I need to try some 35 cal for my 35rem 200gr.
Don

[PatMarlin]

Very cool Don.

Pic's please ...!

[Beekeeper]

Pat,
How about an update on the 30 cal tools ,delivery of.?

Jim