another alloy mix question

[cptinjeff]

Hello,

Thanks to all the advice I have recieved either directly or from reading others posts my casting and shooting is going well. I'm wondering what the resulting bhn would be from 3 pure to 1 ww and then quenched? Trying to get to bhn of 12 ish but also using as much pure and as little ww as possible. thanks in advance. I can do a batch of this and test it...but sometimes getting advice before you do something (how many of us read the directions before we mess it up?) saves a lot of time. jeff

[sqlbullet]

That might work...But I wouldn't bet on it. I would suggest you give it a try.

Most of us have more WW type alloy than pure lead. I tend to hoard my pure lead, cause I never know when I will get more.

I am also a fan of air cooled bullets. I only water drop when I really need an uber hard bullet. Air cooled bullets will remain relatively stable after a few weeks of age hardening. Water dropped bullets can vary if they are stored for a long time. So a bullet that hits your target BHN of 12 in a week, may only be a 9 in a year when you shoot it.

It sounds like your situation is the reverse of the rest of us....Plenty of pure, trying to make your hardening agent go as far as possible.

Couple of questions: What cartridge(s) are you casting for? What speeds do you intend to push the bullets? A BHN of 12 is plenty hard for any handgun application. In most cases, you could go softer as long as you have proper fit and lube.

[Edubya]

The sites listed might help you to be more independent.
Alloy Calculator
The Calculator Program download is a Zip file. One needs the WinZip program installed on their computer to open the file. The WinZip program can be downloaded here: Free Download of WinZip Program
http://www.theopenrange.net/forum/index.php?topic=1390.0
http://www.lasc.us/CastBulletNotes.htm

[cptinjeff]

To answer the questions.


I cast for several handgun calibers and speeds. The one I'm having "trouble" with at a bhn of less than 12 is .45 acp. I have two .45 colt revolvers with .45 acp cylinders that shoot softer lead great with no leading. But I'm also shooting a Glock 21 with a lone wolf barrel and get some leading with less than 12 bhn. I'm pretty sure the problem is size and fit but the harder boolit seems to cure/hide the problem. I'm sizing at .451 for the autoloader only because it
WILL NOT feed a larger bullet 100% of the time. What I mean by will not feed is the slide stays just slightly out of battery and obviously will not fire. The larger rounds are hard to eject after they don't fire and I assume this is the bullet sticking.


Also thanks for the spreadsheet program and other info. I have used both of those sources in the past/present and gained lots of knowledge and understating from them. Those two things have saved a TON of time with experimentation. Neither seem to cover water dropping with a less than 50% ww content (at least that I read). Thanks again. jeff

[cptinjeff]

To answer the questions.


I cast for several handgun calibers and speeds. The one I'm having "trouble" with at a bhn of less than 12 is .45 acp. I have two .45 colt revolvers with .45 acp cylinders that shoot softer lead great with no leading. But I'm also shooting a Glock 21 with a lone wolf barrel and get some leading with less than 12 bhn. I'm pretty sure the problem is size and fit but the harder boolit seems to hide the problem. I'm sizing at .451 for the autoloader only because it
WILL NOT feed a larger bullet 100% of the time. What I mean by will not feed is the slide stays just slightly out of battery and obviously will not fire. The larger rounds are hard to eject after they don't fire and I assume this is the bullet sticking.


Also thanks for the spreadsheet program and other info. I have used both of those sources in the past/present and gained lots of knowledge and understating from them. Those two things have saved a TON of time with experimentation. Neither seem to cover water dropping with a less than 50% ww content (at least that I read). Thanks again. jeff

[sqlbullet]

I have a similar issue with my 10mm. The bore slugs .401 - .4015 instead of .400 you expect. I size my bullets to .4015 - .402. Any larger and they start to have issues with being too tight.

I have the opposite problem as you when shooting. Light loads with Blue Dot don't get enough pressure to bump up, and I get leading with hard bullets. Switch to Unique for the same velocity light load and the leading goes away, I assume because the faster powder hits a higher pressure, it just doesn't stay there. The bullets bump up, and leading goes away.

I wonder if the bullets aren't hard enough to hold the rifling in the lone wolf barrel. I don't know what you recipe is, but could you safely move to a lighter charge of a slower powder? Perhaps a lower peak pressure for a longer time will facilitate the softer bullets?

[StarMetal]

I have a similar issue with my 10mm. The bore slugs .401 - .4015 instead of .400 you expect. I size my bullets to .4015 - .402. Any larger and they start to have issues with being too tight.

I have the opposite problem as you when shooting. Light loads with Blue Dot don't get enough pressure to bump up, and I get leading with hard bullets. Switch to Unique for the same velocity light load and the leading goes away, I assume because the faster powder hits a higher pressure, it just doesn't stay there. The bullets bump up, and leading goes away.

I wonder if the bullets aren't hard enough to hold the rifling in the lone wolf barrel. I don't know what you recipe is, but could you safely move to a lighter charge of a slower powder? Perhaps a lower peak pressure for a longer time will facilitate the softer bullets?

You are confusing the bore and the groove. The groove is the larger of the diameters. You are sizing too small. You should size to at least .002 over groove size. Or better yet shoot the fattest bullet that your chamber will let you chamber the cartridge.

Joe

[runfiverun]

how many times i've had to thumb seat a cartridge.
i just seat to the edge of the driving band.
in my boy's 1911 i bump the case with a roll crimp,bump not crimp or smush just touch but in my others i just seat flush.
you might have a longer oal and not a diameter issuue.
unless you are using lee boolits that are unsized and oval shaped.

[Edubya]

how many times i've had to thumb seat a cartridge.
i just seat to the edge of the driving band.
in my boy's 1911 i bump the case with a roll crimp,bump not crimp or smush just touch but in my others i just seat flush.
you might have a longer oal and not a diameter issuue.
unless you are using lee boolits that are unsized and oval shaped.
I'm a bit confused. I've not tried it yet, but how do you get a roll crimp without crimping but not a crimp?
"i just seat to the edge of the driving band" Are you crimping into the lube groove?
How about posting a picture of your completed cartridges.
EW

[Barnowl]

cptinjeff,

See this link for an Alloy Calculator (Post #12 & 22) and more discussion.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=67401

Kevin

[Echo]

To answer the questions.


I cast for several handgun calibers and speeds. The one I'm having "trouble" with at a bhn of less than 12 is .45 acp. I have two .45 colt revolvers with .45 acp cylinders that shoot softer lead great with no leading. But I'm also shooting a Glock 21 with a lone wolf barrel and get some leading with less than 12 bhn. I'm pretty sure the problem is size and fit but the harder boolit seems to hide the problem. I'm sizing at .451 for the autoloader only because it
WILL NOT feed a larger bullet 100% of the time. What I mean by will not feed is the slide stays just slightly out of battery and obviously will not fire. The larger rounds are hard to eject after they don't fire and I assume this is the bullet sticking.



Jeff, what brass are you using? If GI, that is the problem. It is thicker than any commercial of which I am aware, and boolits sized .452 could cause the problem mentioned above.

Also - IME, Rem/UMC brass is thinner than most others. You might try sizing some boolits to .452, load them in Rem brass, and see if they will chamber.

[Echo]

I'm a bit confused. I've not tried it yet, but how do you get a roll crimp without crimping but not a crimp?
"i just seat to the edge of the driving band" Are you crimping into the lube groove?
How about posting a picture of your completed cartridges.
EW

R5R means to just crimp enough to remove the flare from the case. A taper crimp die is the ticket.

And I seat mine out .030-.040 so the shoulder/driving band contacts the rifling origin, to zero out endplay.

[runfiverun]

i seat flush with the shoulder on the boolit.no boolit shoulder exposed, just flush.square.
and i do bump them in a roll crimp die, for my 45 ar. most acp dies have a roll crimp in them if labeled for the auto rim also.
enough to fully take any flare out of the case plus.
if i could post a picture i would but i can hardly work this thing, let alone plug in a device i ain't gonna buy.