Harder RB for Elk?

[10 ga]

I will be going to CO next year for a cow elk hunt. I have a .50 and .58 dedicated roundball guns. They are my preference for this hunt as CO only allows open sights in ML season. Otherwise I'll have to take a scope off one of my inlines and get a peep sight etc... The RB guns already have peep sights. I'm thinking of casting harder RBs (92/6/2 or range scrap which is pretty hard) to allow max penetration. I use a .562 mold for the .58 and have access to a .485 mold for the .50 and I shoot with very thick patches. I could just go to a slightly thinner patch and use the hard RBs for max penetration. My heavy hunting load for the .58 is 110 gr of FF Swiss down a 28" bbl. for the .50 it is 100 gr of FFF Swiss down a 28" bbl. I should think this is suitable for my favorite rib/lung shot under 75 yds. I have killed 100+ whitetails with these loads but this is my first trip west. Is this suitable or should I just start equipping one of my inlines for the trip? Thanks all! 10 ga

[idahoron]

To be honest I think that a 50 cal PRB is too small for elk. I am sure that there are guys that have done it but elk are huge. You can't compaire what a PRB will do on a whitetail to what it will do on an elk. here is a picture of an elk a friend of mine killed. As you can see it is much bigger than a whitetail. Ron

http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/Ron_Hulse_388-2.jpg

[elk hunter]

10 Ga;

While it is entirely possible to kill elk with a 50 caliber round ball, I've seen it done, I for one would use the 58 if at all possible. Elk, while not bullet proof, are bigger and tougher than deer.

This past season I shot a five point bull with my 9.3 x 74 three times at less than fifty yards and he was still trying to get away. He had just been wounded by another hunter, broken leg, and was amped up which I'm sure contributed to the problem of pacifying him.

Improperly hit they can be incredibly tough to put down.

Again, a fifty caliber round ball can do the job properly placed, but a half inch hole from a non expanding hard bullet through the back of one lung will most likely result in a lost elk.

Get close and place that round ball properly and you'll enjoy some of the best game you'll ever eat.

Enjoy your hunt.

[waksupi]

Stick with the .58 RB. That is good elk medicine.

[Hickory]

In 1992 I went elk hunting in Colorado north and a little east of Gould.
In my arrogance I took my 50 cal. T/C Pa Hunter with a round ball.

The shot I took on a cow was a perfect broadside shot at 30 yards and I took it.
She took off as if I had missed. There was no blood trail for a good 300yds.
Long story short, after 3 day of hunting for it. I found her. I shot her as if it was a whitetail and missed the heart. Coyotes had worked her over pretty good and wasn’t worth recovering.

My advice, use the biggest caliber you can get, with a heavy boolit.
Keep your shots with in your abilities. Shoot for a quick kill, neck, spine or head.

[frontier gander]

i used a .54cal round ball on a cow elk at 140 yards wiht 80gr pyrodex. After the shot she went 60 yards with an excellent blood trail.

IMO i wouldnt feel to comfortable with a .50cal round ball on elk.

[John Taylor]

Bigger is better, don't need harder. This applies to shooting elk, not that other thing.

[Larry Gibson]

Seen lots of elk killed with .50 cal RBs over the years. Many years back when it was leagal I killed a nice spike bull elk with a .45 RB. A straight lead alloy is fine and will give you all the penetration needed (minus the texas heart shot) with that load as long as you stay within a reasonable range. Muzzle loader's have been killing elk for many, many years with .50 cal RBs and I don't think PETA has issued body armor to all the elk out there:-)

Larry Gibson

[dualsport]

Have you even considered a conical? I'll guess your twist is slow, maybe 1/66"? It is possible to shoot these with something like a Lyman Great Plains Bullet or equivalent with elk type accuracy. The reason I mention it is for me it pays to check out all my options, then decide. You're not likely to regret using too much power, but the reverse is a possibility. I've hunted mule deer and cow elk with muzzleloaders, never got the cow, but once I shot a monster buck in CO. with a .54 TC with a 48" twist using a conical. At 35 yds. broadside it took off the top of his heart and came to rest under the hide on offside, ie no complete penetration. He didn't go far, but he was a lot smaller than a cow elk. My point is when it comes to big game I like to error on the heavy side and maybe avoid a loss. Good luck on your hunt, we'll need a report with pictures please.

[mooman76]

I was thinking the same as duelsport. I shoot an original copy Lee minie out of my 58. It is about 510gr. and it does not shoot as accurate as a RB but is good enough to 100y to hit in the kill zone. (about 6") It also is nose heavy. Pretty much just a RB with a skirt so even out of my slow twist 58 it shoots reasonably well.

[Blammer]

I'd go with big and heavy and aim for bone, a shoulder going in and then into the heart or into the heart out through the shoulder.

Knock'em down and practice a quick reload. Heck, bring two guns! :)

[Hellgate]

It's a young cow elk but the 577611 530gr minie pushed by 90gr FFg dropped her in her tracks and sailed clear through. The big minie was sighted in to hit 5" high at 50yds to be right on at 100. Hopefully the picture comes through. Used a 58 cal Musketoon. I am considering working up a PRB load but haven't gotten around to it. The 577611 and 575213-OS minies have thicker skirts and do well with heavy loads. Thinner skirted minies will flare out and have poor accuracy with heavy loads.

[10 ga]

Thanks for the information. The 50 is 1/66 twist so conicals out for that gun. The 58 is 1/48 twist and I have shot some of the Hornady boolits in it. Well, that is why I shoot RB, recoil! Guess I'll use my limbsaver slip on and just sight in with the minnies and use them, sight in and one shot on meat I can handle. I'll check the pay it forward/boolit exchange, anybody have some 58 minies to trade/sell? I have taken a LOT of dwarf elk, otherwise known as Sika and they are soooo good to eat. My brother and nephews have taken a number of CO elk and they use the NEF ultra slug 20 ga with a youth stock and my old 30-30 truck gun with the cut down stock for the kids. I figure if they will kill elk the 58 is plenty. The full size elk are goood to eat too! I do have access to an Encore 50 ML and I'll stick a peeprib on that and use 348 gr aerotip belted as backup gun. I got the 58 originally with the idea of using it if a trip west was ever available. I'll stick with that plan but jump up to a minnie. Best to all and Merry Christmas, 10 ga

[Hanshi]

Thanks for the information. The 50 is 1/66 twist so conicals out for that gun. The 58 is 1/48 twist and I have shot some of the Hornady boolits in it. Well, that is why I shoot RB, recoil! Guess I'll use my limbsaver slip on and just sight in with the minnies and use them, sight in and one shot on meat I can handle. I'll check the pay it forward/boolit exchange, anybody have some 58 minies to trade/sell? I have taken a LOT of dwarf elk, otherwise known as Sika and they are soooo good to eat. My brother and nephews have taken a number of CO elk and they use the NEF ultra slug 20 ga with a youth stock and my old 30-30 truck gun with the cut down stock for the kids. I figure if they will kill elk the 58 is plenty. The full size elk are goood to eat too! I do have access to an Encore 50 ML and I'll stick a peeprib on that and use 348 gr aerotip belted as backup gun. I got the 58 originally with the idea of using it if a trip west was ever available. I'll stick with that plan but jump up to a minnie. Best to all and Merry Christmas, 10 ga

Don't neglect trying the T/C maxi Hunter (or maxi ball) in that 50. My M1841 (.54) has a 1-66" twist and shoots them very well. During the War of Northern Aggression the rifled muskets were normally about 1-66" and fired fine with minie. I have a .50 EV flinter with that slow twist that drives tacks with prb and broad head roofing nails with maxi.

[dk17hmr]

I use a regular round ball in my 58, with 80gr of RS, but I havent hunted anything other than whitetail with it. It knocks them down pretty good with that combo. I have an old lyman 58 mini ball mold around here somewhere I need to get a plug made for, but its semi pointed, I think the round ball would cut a better hole at close range.

[Hellgate]

10ga,
When I am working up a load on the shooting bench for minies I put a sand bag betwixt me and the rifle butt. That way I don't develop a flinch. When you are out hunting you will never notice the recoil when aiming at game. When all is said and done, you want to use the load you have the most confidence in hitting where you are aiming.
What I like about the minies is they can really break bones so I don't shoot for the lungs, on a broadside shot I aim for the shoulders to stop or slow them way down. Don't worry one bit about ruining meat. I hit a quartering away doe in the rear leg and the minie went diagonally all the way through her and out the opposite shoulder. She staggered about 50yds and piled up. There was a nice 2" dia wound channel from stem to stern but hardly any meat ruined beyond that. The slow moving slug does not blow things apart or blooshot like a high powered rifle. I'cw even considered having a PRB in the barrel and the minie as a faster followup. with a little practice and speed loaders you can reload pretty quick.

[Boz330]

Try the 58 REAL, solid base so you don't have to worry about the skirt. I have a 72 twist and it shoots just as good as the RB with 140gr more weight. While a 50 will sure kill an elk you can't go wrong with more boolit and weight. I saw way too many elk lost with bad shots or too light of a boolits by hunters when I guided. I'm sure they died but only to the delight of coyotes and bear.[smilie=b:

Bob

[dualsport]

That's a good point, the Lee R.E.A.L. boolits are pretty versatile and easy to use.

[35remington]

The solid base conicals like the Max-Ball or Maxi-Hunter will take heavier charges than most minies, up to the limit of the rifle's heaviest charge allowed.

This would be preferable to any minie when the most power is wanted.

[peter nap]

I'm a bad one to ask. I don't hunt with anything smaller than a .58.

I like conical s and started using the Lee improved Minnie this year but, RB's actually penetrate better.

It's a toss up, so whatever your gun shoots best.

[dualsport]

The RB in a .58 is a different animal than a .50 RB. Quite a bit more oomph. I have a Zouave replica that will shoot PRB into 6" at 100 yds, about the same as it does with the Lyman old style Minie. There's something about carrying that gun, it makes me feel invincable! 10 ga, I might be able to whip up 50 of the old style Lyman Minies, .58. It'd take a month or two, got a long list of to-dos. Let me know if you're interested and what you have for trade. I have built up a good supply of pure lead, it's just these suckers are slow to produce.

[northmn]

A 58 is a very powerful ML, even with roundball. Some use WW to get a little more penetration. An individual on another forum mentioned that he saw a 54 hit on a bull moose at 175 yards measured. The ball stopped on the opposite side under the hide. No expansion but the moose did not go that far.

Northmn

[Hellgate]

The R.E.A.L. bullet is a bit hard to load quickly as the R.iflings are E.ngraved A.t L.oading so often you have to pound it into the muzzle or use a short starter whereas the minie gets thumbed in and rammed. Yopu could have a
R.E.A.L loadied in the barrel and a minie, ballette, etc as a followup.

[451whitworth]

The RB in a .58 is a different animal than a .50 RB. Quite a bit more oomph.

when you get to .58 caliber and up the PRB really begins to come into it's own. a good dose of powder and a .58 round ball is great elk medicine.