Shot group

[dnorris]

Hi every body,
I am new to muzzleloading and I would like some input on what a person can exspect for a shot group of a muzzle loader say at 50 yards. I know muzzle loader shoot differant then modern fire arms but what kind of shot group should be able to be expected from a muzzleloader between 50 to 75 yards. I bought a 50 Cal. Optima break action used from a guy and I took the breach plug out to check the bore [ after the guy left and the deal was done] and the bore was very dirty. I cleaned it the best I could with what I had at the time, but the bore still looks pited. There were some 270 grain Sabot with the green plastic base skirts and there were pretty easy to start down the bore with just useing my thumb. I also had Pyrodox 50/50 and I used two pellets. I shot three times and at about 75 yards and they were shooting off close to a foot in about a two foot circle. To me I thought the Sabots should be tighter fitting. I ordered a 250 Grain REAL bullet mould and plan to cast my own. The REAL bullets have a Dia. of 517 which should be a snuger fit. Do some BP rifles just not have shot patterns. Did it help any of you that switched to REAL cast bullets with a tighter shot group? Or do I just need to think about a differant gun? I will appreciate and advice greatly. THANKS.
dnorris

[405]

Well, how accurate at 50? Most, even the old, ancient, nearly caveman technology flintlocks with decent bores and good load technique should do about an inch at 50 yds with the lowly patched roundball. If you are bound and determined to go high tech then there are quite a few folks here that shoot the inlines that may add some insight.

If the bore is badly pitted then you might try to get another barrel for the gun or sell it as "pitted" and use the loss and experience as "dues paid".

If not badly pitted then you could try to fire lap the bore to smooth it out a bit. Get some lapping compound (Wheeler lapping compound- 3 tubs- available thru Brownells, etc.). When you get the Reals just lube, by smearing on, the coarser grit like 220. Fire. Clean the bore. Load again with the bullet lubed with 220. Fire. Clean. Do this five times. Switch to the 330 grit. Repeat 5 times. Switch to the 600. Repeat 5 times. Cleaning between each shot will yield better results.

Then from a good rest on a 50 yard target try shooting regularly lubed (bore butter or similar) Reals with a modest charge of powder- something like 50 grains of FFg blackpowder is what I'd try. Clean between shots. Shoot 5 shots on target. That will give a good indication of accuracy potential of the bore as it is. May or may not work but then you'll know. Good luck!

[docone31]

I have done the lapping compound on R.E.A.L.s on two rifles.
One had the ball stuck, and power in the chamber for over 20yrs. The other one had not had a swab down the bore in 20yrs.
10 R.E.A.L.s each and they are smooth.
Fairly fast fix.

[HPT]

Pitting is caused by not cleaning. Pyrodex and the other substitute powders are worse for this than blackpowder. For some reason, most people believe the opposite is true - they're wrong (been lied to by Hogdon & others). Try the fire lapping, then clean the rifle immediately after use.

The poor accuracy is likely due to too much pressure for the sabot. If you are going to use these same sabots, you'll have to switch to loose powder and reduce your load until some degree of accuracy. If you are going to continue with the 2 pellets, try different sabots.

Only sabots I've tried that might work would be black MMP sabots & 250gr or 300gr hornady XTP pistol bullets. You can buy the sabots seperately in a bag of 50, then buy .45 cal pistol bullets in a box of 100. Should get approx 3" groups @ 100 yds. You'll get best accuracy if you wipe the bore between shots.

Look up Randy Wakeman or Toby Bridges on internet for more info.

[mooman76]

Basically you can expect from BP guns what you can from other guns. Some are better than others but they can shoot very good and basically shoot as well as smokeless. There are allot more variables and options with BP guns though and sometimes it takes awhile to find the best combination. I am no expert with sobots in fact I have never shot them but I believe they should be tighter than that. They may be better now but in the past some were better than others and some were slightly different sizes by a few thousanths and that could make a big difference. Also the pellets aren't the best for accuracy. You should be getting better than what you are even with pellets. Try the REALs and see where you're at.

[idahoron]

I have shot the REAL bullets and I was not impressed with them at all. I was shooting them out of a 1-28 twist. Use a wad between the bullet and powder. If you get under 6" groups at 100 yards you are doing good. Ron

[skullmount]

dnorris,

After lapping and cleaning, remember, "less is more"

I have been down this road a number of years ago, and learned from some friends that I was useing too much powder for accuracy!
My best groups with the 240 grain xtp are with 70 grains Pyrodex.
My brother took 2 deer on a cull hunt a few years ago with this gun and load. One deer was just short of 120 yards and the other was just over 80 yards.

Less powder = More accuracy


Good shooting to you!

[JIMinPHX]

I haven't spent a whole lot of time with black powder rifles, but I can usually get about a baseball or softball size group at 50-yards with a 1/2" front stuffer shooting cast pistol boolits in sabots. Patched round balls seem to do a little better for accuracy. Loose powder seems to shoot a little better than the pellets do for me. The differences have been small though. AGain, I haven't really spent a lot of time with that stuff.

Seating your boolit firmly against the powder charge & doing it EXACTLY the same every time seems to make a noticeable difference.