.500 Wyoming Express...

[Bucks Owin]

Anyone here shooting one? I've had "the hots" for a fivegun in this caliber every since it was introduced. Would like to hear anyone's experience with it....Dennis :Fire:

[WARD O]

My buddy has one, he does not reload so I have been doing his reloading for this gun. So far he has not given it to me to try shooting, but having my ovn FA guns in other calibers, I am sure it is up to their standards.

Pretty much all he's shot thru the gun so far is about 150 rounds of 350 grain Hornady HP's at about 900 fps. He claims it's a tack driver with that load and pleasant to shoot. He has taken a 2 1/2 year old bison with it with a single shot.

One of these days I will make him loan it to me for a bit and then I'll try it out with a little wider variety of loads!

Ward

[ole 5 hole group]

I don't have a 500WE but the round is about the same as the 500JRH - that is, it's basically a short 500S&W or 500 Special. The only advantage of shooting the JRH over the 500WE, is you can either purchase the JRH cases from Huntington or trim the big 500 S&W case down to 1.4". The 500WE is a belted proprietary cartridge and I'm not aware of other sources of brass. Neither can keep up with the 500S&W past 440 grains but if you're not into hotrodding the 50 or shooting bullets larger than 500 grains, then either the WE or JRH will get the job done in fine fashion.

[Lloyd Smale]

Ive shot my buddys quite a bit. It seems to have less felt recoil using the same weight bullet at the same speed as my 500 linebaughs but that could be because of the grip design and the fact the fa guns are a bit heavier then a ruger conversion. His is a tack driver and is a great gun. I wouldnt mind having one myself.

[Bucks Owin]

I don't have a 500WE but the round is about the same as the 500JRH - that is, it's basically a short 500S&W or 500 Special. The only advantage of shooting the JRH over the 500WE, is you can either purchase the JRH cases from Huntington or trim the big 500 S&W case down to 1.4". The 500WE is a belted proprietary cartridge and I'm not aware of other sources of brass. Neither can keep up with the 500S&W past 440 grains but if you're not into hotrodding the 50 or shooting bullets larger than 500 grains, then either the WE or JRH will get the job done in fine fashion. Good post, good points amigo. Let me be "devil's advocate". True, the .500 WE is a couple hundred fps behind the .500 S&W but I don't see the 72 oz (!) X frame as a "handgun" for holster carry. (I realize that it needs the weight or no one would want to shoot it! Any of the BIGbores aren't for the "recoil challenged" and will take some practice to handle anyway) One could just as easy pack a light big bore carbine as the X frame, they both need slings! ;) Cases? Well, yes, you need to buy some new cases for any of the three aforementioned as I see it. And I don't find many .348's or even .45/70's lying around the range for Linebaugh use either for that matter, so case availability isn't much of a factor IMO. (And I like that cool belted case! :oops: ) The big Smith, I feel, is for the same folks who bought the first 44 mags, to have "The world's most powerful" double action handgun. (And to me the .460 is just a "gimmick" on the old .45 Colt which the .454 Casull filled nicely for most folks. I'd pick a BFR .45/70 over the .460 any day if the "ultimate .45" was my goal.). Guess it's apparent that I'm a single action dude, and not in the S&W camp. (even though I'd never want to be without my Combat Magnum for "social" use, don't beat me up S&W fans). The .500 S&W's ammo is more available for those who buy factory fodder, which is a plus I guess, but we'uns ain't that sort anyway right? :bigsmyl2: Happily the .500 WE uses a .500" boolit, not the "51 cal" of the Linebaugh. Realistically, I feel that unless Ruger (finally) builds a 5 shot SBH, both the .480 Ruger and the .500 WE are probably gonna be "also rans" on the way to obsoleteville compared to the custom Linebaughs. (unless Ruger is selling far more .480 Redhawks than I imagine). But anyway, IMHO, if a .50 cal 440 gr boolit at 1400 fps can't "git 'er done" for holstered sidearm use then it's time to pick up a rifle. I'll take the .500 WE over all the rest of the handcannons, I enjoy being "different" I guess....JMO, Dennis..... who will leave the .500/.460 S&W for the overweight DA fans... (Uh, the gun not the shootist! :razz: )

[Bucks Owin]

Ive shot my buddys quite a bit. It seems to have less felt recoil using the same weight bullet at the same speed as my 500 linebaughs but that could be because of the grip design and the fact the fa guns are a bit heavier then a ruger conversion. His is a tack driver and is a great gun. I wouldnt mind having one myself. I like your style Lloyd! :drinks:

[ole 5 hole group]

Well Buck, I just posted the information for your possible future use. I looked at the WE but decided on the JRH - I also shoot the 500 Smith and Linebaugh Max. The Linebaugh brass is made from trimming 50 Alaskan down to 1.610 - easy as that. I sure wasn't trying to promote the X-frame but the Smith really does out perform the WE & JRH by quite a margin and carrys well either on the hip or shoulder holster, so what it basically comes down to is which revolver/s do you want to own & shoot. As Lloyd pointed out, the lighter Linebaughs using a .512 diameter bullet will get your attention more so than the WE - but you will find that either the JRH or WE will get your attention once you go beyond 1,300fps with the 440 grain bullet. With the right loads, all these 50's will shoot very well and you can never forget to carry hearing protection when you pack one of these bad boys because you don't just crank one off for the he*l of it like you can with your '06 or 338. If you get the FA 500WE, I think you will enjoy it.

[2 dogs]

I have shot it some with full on loads. It is a handful but nothing that cant be managed. FA guns are known for their accuracy. One of the ones I shot had some sharp edges on the hammer that shaved some skin of my thumb but I managed to survive it. I certainly wouldnt mind owning one myself.

[Lloyd Smale]

I agree with buck and fermin. Load any of them with a 440 at 1300 and they will get your attention. Recoil is in a differnt league then if your used to heavy 44 mags.
One complaint ive had with my fa guns is the sharp edges. I know they do them to make the gun look like it is quality made but there sure hell on the skin and personaly id rather they rounded them off.

[Whitworth]

Well Buck, I just posted the information for your possible future use. I looked at the WE but decided on the JRH - I also shoot the 500 Smith and Linebaugh Max. The Linebaugh brass is made from trimming 50 Alaskan down to 1.610 - easy as that. I sure wasn't trying to promote the X-frame but the Smith really does out perform the WE & JRH by quite a margin and carrys well either on the hip or shoulder holster, so what it basically comes down to is which revolver/s do you want to own & shoot. As Lloyd pointed out, the lighter Linebaughs using a .512 diameter bullet will get your attention more so than the WE - but you will find that either the JRH or WE will get your attention once you go beyond 1,300fps with the 440 grain bullet. With the right loads, all these 50's will shoot very well and you can never forget to carry hearing protection when you pack one of these bad boys because you don't just crank one off for the he*l of it like you can with your '06 or 338. If you get the FA 500WE, I think you will enjoy it.


.500 Linebaugh brass as been in production a lot longer than .50 Alaskan brass, and it is 1.4-inches not 1.6 -- you may be talking about the .500 max. The Smith pushes bullets faste than the .500 JR and WE, but I don't consider it a better performer really. I have a revolver in .50 Alaskan that can handily sent the .500 Smith packing, but t doesn't really outperform the .500 Linebaugh -- it kicks a hell-of-a-lot more!

I see you were talking about the max and not the Linebaugh -- sorry about that.

[ole 5 hole group]

.500 Linebaugh brass as been in production a lot longer than .50 Alaskan brass, and it is 1.4-inches not 1.6 -- you may be talking about the .500 max. The Smith pushes bullets faste than the .500 JR and WE, but I don't consider it a better performer really. I have a revolver in .50 Alaskan that can handily sent the .500 Smith packing, but t doesn't really outperform the .500 Linebaugh -- it kicks a hell-of-a-lot more!

I see you were talking about the max and not the Linebaugh -- sorry about that.

I respect your opinion that the 500 Smith doesn't outperform the JRH or WE but I can't agree with it, as I feel the 357 mag outperforms the 38 special and I see no difference in that comparison then with the JRH & WE vs the Smith or the 50 Alaskan vs the 500 Linebaugh. It may be in the "translation" of performance on North American game - in that realm, I'll have to agree with you. All these 50 caliber revolvers will do about anything asked of them in fine fashion but some loads are just downright nasty in a man's hand.

[Bucks Owin]

Thanks all, especially 5 hole. This cartridge is hard to find much first hand info about....Dennis

[Whitworth]

I respect your opinion that the 500 Smith doesn't outperform the JRH or WE but I can't agree with it, as I feel the 357 mag outperforms the 38 special and I see no difference in that comparison then with the JRH & WE vs the Smith or the 50 Alaskan vs the 500 Linebaugh. It may be in the "translation" of performance on North American game - in that realm, I'll have to agree with you. All these 50 caliber revolvers will do about anything asked of them in fine fashion but some loads are just downright nasty in a man's hand.


Again, I have a revolver in .50 Alaskan which will make a .500 Smith go run and hide. I get just under 1,600 fps with a 525 grain bullet -- it can be loaded hotter, but it is REALLY hard to shoot. At the Linebaugh seminar a couple of years ago, we got 50-inches of penetration with this load. My friend's .500 Linebaugh, using the same bullet at 1,130 fps, also went 50-inches. I'll let you guess which one is more pleasant and easier to shoot! The point is that the mild .500 L loads knocks the **** out of game and I see no reason for more velocity. Then there is the size of the revolver necessary to house these monster cases.......

I watched a friend (same friend) shoot a very large bison with said 525 grain load in .500 Linebaugh and I can guarantee you that with more velocity it wouldn't have fared any better.

[ole 5 hole group]

Again, I have a revolver in .50 Alaskan which will make a .500 Smith go run and hide. I get just under 1,600 fps with a 525 grain bullet -- it can be loaded hotter, but it is REALLY hard to shoot. At the Linebaugh seminar a couple of years ago, we got 50-inches of penetration with this load. My friend's .500 Linebaugh, using the same bullet at 1,130 fps, also went 50-inches. I'll let you guess which one is more pleasant and easier to shoot! The point is that the mild .500 L loads knocks the **** out of game and I see no reason for more velocity. Then there is the size of the revolver necessary to house these monster cases.......

I watched a friend (same friend) shoot a very large bison with said 525 grain load in .500 Linebaugh and I can guarantee you that with more velocity it wouldn't have fared any better.

I agree - that 50 Alaskan is a handful & then some. There is a point where more velocity doesn't gain you much relative to more pentration in the same medium and you probably found that with your 50 Alaskan, as a couple more inches of pentration in exchange for a sore wrist and trigger finger may not be a good trade-off for most of us but as Dennis said; he likes to be a little different, so he's going with the WE - you like pushing .512 diameter slugs weighing 525 grains at 1,600fps with the 500 Alaskan - I think that's a little different:|

I imagine for some reading these posts that haven't had the pleasure of "experiencing" a full house 50 load - they must think most of us are out of touch with reality - I know I feel that way every now and then when I get bit pretty good (my blood) practicing "ragged" fire - knowing I'll probably never fire 5 "semi-aimed" shots within 10 seconds or so at anything but a harmless target, but it's all enjoyable and so far, I haven't broke a wrist.

[Whitworth]

Perhaps we've had our cages rattled one too many times.......:lol:

[c.r.]

for the folks that might not know, FA has some pretty good info about the .500WE on their website.

Here's a link to the .pdf file. It includes quite a bit of background info on the cartridge as well as some load data.

http://www.freedomarms.com/500weda.pdf

~c.r.

[Lloyd Smale]

Ive got to agree with whitworth. My recoil tolarace ends with the standard 500 and 475 linebaughs. As a matter of fact about 75 percent of the time im running them at about 1100 fps. Why? because if shot enough game with them to know that pushing them to 1400 fps does about nothing for there killing power. I dont have a 50 ak handgun but do have one in a rifle. Weve found in them to that to much velocity can be a detriment to penetration and decrease there effectiveness on game. A 480 grain bullet in one a 1500 fps will outpenetrate the same bullet at 2000 every time. Only exception ive seen to this is with punch bullets. Any lead alloy weve tried deforms some at those kinds of velocitys and even at 1500 it takes so experimenting to find a bullet design and alloy that holds up. Personaly i think the linebaugh, the 50we and the huntington round are about indentical in performance and all that is needed for any hunting anywhere. If you want to impress the guys at the range with those big ones go for it but dont hold any illusion that your going out hunting with a more effective weapon and in my opinion theres not a faster way to destroy years of learning trigger control then shooting 500 grain bullets at 1500 fps out of ANY handgun.

[Whitworth]

Ive got to agree with whitworth. My recoil tolarace ends with the standard 500 and 475 linebaughs. As a matter of fact about 75 percent of the time im running them at about 1100 fps. Why? because if shot enough game with them to know that pushing them to 1400 fps does about nothing for there killing power. I dont have a 50 ak handgun but do have one in a rifle. Weve found in them to that to much velocity can be a detriment to penetration and decrease there effectiveness on game. A 480 grain bullet in one a 1500 fps will outpenetrate the same bullet at 2000 every time. Only exception ive seen to this is with punch bullets. Any lead alloy weve tried deforms some at those kinds of velocitys and even at 1500 it takes so experimenting to find a bullet design and alloy that holds up. Personaly i think the linebaugh, the 50we and the huntington round are about indentical in performance and all that is needed for any hunting anywhere. If you want to impress the guys at the range with those big ones go for it but dont hold any illusion that your going out hunting with a more effective weapon and in my opinion theres not a faster way to destroy years of learning trigger control then shooting 500 grain bullets at 1500 fps out of ANY handgun.

Precisely, Lloyd!

[Fowler]

My buddy Gregg Richter drove a 425gr LFNPB going a little under 1100fps through a mule deer starting high on the left hip and out through the front right shoulder for about 45" of penetration in his 4 3/4" FA 500WE. What more could you realistically ask for in a packable sized revolver?

I have a 4 3/4" 475 Linebaugh and I can tell you if you miss it is because of the shooter not the gun.

I think if you were to sell your gun at some point down the road a FA will hold a higher percentage of original cost than a custom revolver would hold. Nothing beats a custom Bisley in my never humble opinion but everyone purchasing motivations are different.

The fact is that on game any of the 500 class revolvers are splitting hairs and you will never prove any superiority. Yes the 500 S&W is a more powerful gun but as stated before the platform is completely impractical for a packing revolver. I want a custom Bisley in 500 Linebaugh myself, but only because I want it, not need it....

[Bucks Owin]

Precisely, Lloyd! Just for grins, how does the recoil of a damn the torpedos 440@1400fps .500 WE compare with that of a full house .454 Casull 300 gr in a 7.5" FA? (Hardest kicker I've fired to date) Twice as much? I expect to spend time working up to the T-Rex loads, but I may be getting "recoilitus" already! Dennis :shock: (Who thinks a 350 @ 1000 will be a fine starting place!)

[dubber123]

Just for grins, how does the recoil of a damn the torpedos 440@1400fps .500 WE compare with that of a full house .454 Casull 300 gr in a 7.5" FA? (Hardest kicker I've fired to date) Twice as much? I expect to spend time working up to the T-Rex loads, but I may be getting "recoilitus" already! Dennis :shock: (Who thinks a 350 @ 1000 will be a fine starting place!)

I have never fired a .454, but my friend has several times. He fired my 4-3/4" .475 once, and refused to shoot it again. My load is a 440 @ 1,325 fps. I asked how much worse than the .454 it was, and he said "alot". My limit is about 3 cylinderfulls.

[Whitworth]

Just for grins, how does the recoil of a damn the torpedos 440@1400fps .500 WE compare with that of a full house .454 Casull 300 gr in a 7.5" FA? (Hardest kicker I've fired to date) Twice as much? I expect to spend time working up to the T-Rex loads, but I may be getting "recoilitus" already! Dennis :shock: (Who thinks a 350 @ 1000 will be a fine starting place!)

I need to work it out on a recoil calculator, but it won't be twice the recoil. I have never met a full-tilt 300 grain Casull load that can be deemed pleasant. FA 83s are light revolvers and they tend to kick pretty hard in the bigger calibers. I did shoot an FA 83 chambered in .500 JRH and the loads were 425 grain bullets at 1,380 and it stung a bit.

[Whitworth]

I used a recoil calculator and with a little guess work with regards to powder charge (I estimated 30 grains for the .454 and 28 grains for the .500) and came up with about 40 ft-lbs of recoil energy for the Casull and 55 for the .500 assuming a 3-lb revolver.

[ole 5 hole group]

I don't think the 500WE at 1,400fps would be pleasant but it would bite a whole lot more than a 454. I've got the 454 & 500JRH in the BFR model and the JRH definitely gets your attention more so than the 454 when you're at the top end. Powder also has a little to do with it, as H110 seems to have a little more bite than either IMR4227 or N120(Vihtavuori) - I think even N110 has less snap. 32 grains of H110 in the JRH pushes a 440 grain with a 90% meplat at 1,462fps and is not pleasant at all. I’ve found the 454 using 25 grains of N110 pushing a 335 grain HC at 1,482fps (SD4) to be very pleasant and the JRH using 25.5 grains of N120 pushing a 440 grain at 950fps to be extremely pleasant. Both loads shoot well for me. The JRH stays pleasant until you reach the 1,225fps mark and from then on it just gets nastier as you go up. The barrel whip isn’t near as bad as a Linebaugh Max with an 8” barrel but every now and then I bleed a little when I fool around the 1,400fps mark shooting a cylinder full a little too fast. In a friendly hunting environment using either a Hawk jacketed bullet or a WFN or LFN hardcast bullet you really don’t need much over 1,000fps with the 50’s and 1,500fps with the 454 - now, when that environment can change on you, then I probably would want my 50’s to be in the mid 1,200fps to low 1,300fps range with a 440 grain hardcast for a large bear or moose, and this is only for my comfort level, as I can still handle the 50’s well for rapid fire at those velocities and I like a little cushion. You may feel comfortable at 900fps in a bad situation, not of your choosing.

I'll also add that my 454 cases are made from 460S&W brass, so I'm using the Winchester large pistol primer.

[Bucks Owin]

Thanks for the input guys. Yeah, even big ol' Jeff Quinn thought full tilt .500 WE loads a little stout when accuracy testing. We'll see, if I can ever get my sweaty hands on one! I expect something like this: http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a356/BucksOwin/john_linebaugh_blast.jpg (John Linebaugh "one handing" a hand cannon)

[500bfrman]

We do know that not all 500 s/w weigh seventy two ounces. Don't we? I find that the x frame weighs about 11 ounces more than the model 83 in equal length barrels. The x frame is about a third of an inch taller. an inch longer, and I am sure it is wider. a four inch wyoming express weights just under 45 ounces a four inch x frame weighs fifty six. Is the x frame bigger, and weigh more? yes. Is it impossible to carry? I don't think so. I do not claim that the x frame equates to the same workmanship as a freedom arms. at half the price it shouldn't I just don't think it is impossible to maneuver. Definitely not for everyone. It's bigger, but its more powerful. Go figure. I would hope that the 50 alaskan is more powerful as well it takes about 25 more grains of powder.

[Whitworth]

I would hope that the 50 alaskan is more powerful as well it takes about 25 more grains of powder.


Ah yes, but it is loaded to much lower pressures than the .500 Smith.

[dubber123]

Ah yes, but it is loaded to much lower pressures than the .500 Smith.

Same reason the big Nitro Express cartridges made so much power, and worked so well.