"Dual purpose" Lyman 457122

[Bucks Owin]

This is likely covering old ground so excuse my "retilling" but I'd like a few testimonies....Was thumbing through the Lyman catalog the other day, pondering over molds and my shrinking shooting budget and got an idea to kill two birds with one mold. (!?!) My .45 BH likes .454" bullets for it's .456" throats and I'd like to play around with a heavy bullet load for the .45 LC and spied 457122, 330 gr HP. I'm thinking I could size this to .454" for my Blackhawk and drive it to 11-1200 fps. Then I got thinking that bullet would be a good low recoiling .45/70 rd for my young son if held to around the same velocity. Now if I can get a few "amens" from the choir regarding accuracy of this projectile, I'll order one....Those who have some experience shooting this boolit, the floor is your's! TIA, Dennis ;) (A few "recipes" for both calibers would also be interesting....)

[KCSO]

Actually I think this was Elmer's idea in about 1930. He split the cyliner of a 45 Colt with a too hot load but in a Ruger it should work. As to 45-70 this is a swell deer bullet at 1400 if cast soft, it's really better than a 405 or a 500 as it gives better expansion. Teddy R also favored this bullet for his 45-90.

[madcaster]

I think that would call for a group buy 6 cavity mould!:holysheep

[Bucks Owin]

Well, if it's good enough for Teddy...! Thanks KCSO. Hey I did a search and found plenty of info here already. (Should'a done that before posting! [smilie=b:) My apologies...(But everyone feel free to "update")...Dennis :oops:

[45 2.1]

Actually the boolit has a "Tri" purpose use. The BP guys size it to fit the bore for muzzle loading rifles also.

[Bucks Owin]

I'm also wondering about seating depth / crimping for 45 Colt use....

[yondering]

I'd like to play around with a heavy bullet load for the .45 LC and spied 457122, 330 gr HP. I'm thinking I could size this to .454" for my Blackhawk and drive it to 11-1200 fps. ... Now if I can get a few "amens" from the choir regarding accuracy of this projectile, I'll order one....Those who have some experience shooting this boolit, the floor is your's!

Amen!
This one works good in the Blackhawk. Mine has .453 throats so I size smaller. I lube the 2 rear grooves with Speed Green, and crimp in the top of the forward lube groove. Your velocity estimate is right on.

As a side note, you can also open up the nose cavity a little during sizing if you use a pointed top punch. This lets it open up at handgun velocity when cast from straight WW. See the two on the right:

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c26/zthang43/molds/IMG_6768.jpg

[SCHUETZENBOOMER]

Search "330 Gould Express"

[beagle]

As I recall, Elmer was using the 457191 when he split the culinder./beagle


Actually I think this was Elmer's idea in about 1930. He split the cyliner of a 45 Colt with a too hot load but in a Ruger it should work. As to 45-70 this is a swell deer bullet at 1400 if cast soft, it's really better than a 405 or a 500 as it gives better expansion. Teddy R also favored this bullet for his 45-90.

[beagle]

Either the 457122HP, the 457191 or the RCBS 45-326-FN-U can be downsized and used in the .45 Colt or Casull. I've loaded and shot all three and they do really well....especially the RCBS with that wide meplat./beagle

[Wolfgang]

Buck, I've not had the chance yet to play with that bullet in my 45 Colts but it is a great one in the 45-70. I use it for the Contender I shoot as well as the rifle. Have not yet had the chance to smack a deer with it but I will be trying to fix that come this weekend.

Wolfgang

[threett1]

I have smacked several deer and hogs now with the 457122 and it has endeared itself to me. I did find that is a little fragile when the pigs get past 300lbs. I've loaded it up to 1600fps for my use. Have a friend that was sizing them down to use in his Encore casull barrel with good success. Strange though that mine always come out at 340 gr when using straight WWs.

[Bucks Owin]

Amen!
This one works good in the Blackhawk. Mine has .453 throats so I size smaller. I lube the 2 rear grooves with Speed Green, and crimp in the top of the forward lube groove. Your velocity estimate is right on.

As a side note, you can also open up the nose cavity a little during sizing if you use a pointed top punch. This lets it open up at handgun velocity when cast from straight WW. See the two on the right:

Many thanks for the tip. I expect a #374 top punch and a "soft" alloy would be just the ticket. Do you power them with H110/W296?...Dennis :coffee:

[yondering]

Many thanks for the tip. I expect a #374 top punch and a "soft" alloy would be just the ticket. Do you power them with H110/W296?...Dennis :coffee:

Yes, I use H110. If you seat them to crimp in the front lube groove, like I do, 22gr is a good starting point. I usually use 23gr H110 and a Win LP primer with this load.
A flat top punch will work fine with these.

[GSaltzman]

Bucks Owen, If you do not mind would you post your results using this boolit in your Ruger. I too have a Bisley with cylinder throats that are oversized. A 454 sized boolit falls thru with no help in a couple throats and the others can be easily pulled thru with fingertips. I was wondering about doing this myself. It would be worth trying if it works out in your gun. Thanks.

[jbc]

there is a group buy for a 2 cavity cramer mihec mold in the group buy discussion area now - it is also listed on the mp molds site as upcoming

[yondering]

FYI, if I understand correctly, the cramer style group buy is not really a 457122. Might be a good boolit, but it is different. The cavity in a 457122 is narrow and deep, this won't work in a cramer mold (boolits will stick on the pins).

[GMT210]

I was just looking at the 457122HP for use as a saboted/boolit in my .50 muzzle loader. I'd be up for a group buy if we could get enough interest.

[Bucks Owin]

Bucks Owen, If you do not mind would you post your results using this boolit in your Ruger. I too have a Bisley with cylinder throats that are oversized. A 454 sized boolit falls thru with no help in a couple throats and the others can be easily pulled thru with fingertips. I was wondering about doing this myself. It would be worth trying if it works out in your gun. Thanks. Will do but don't hold your breath. I'll be catching up on Christmas expenditures for awhile before diverting funds back to the shooting account! That said, you can get some to try here: http://www.montanabulletworks.com/wst_page7.html (bottom of .45 page)
I think I'll go that route before buying a mold. Can also see how well they group after being sized down to .454". I expect my .45/70 will get a reduced velocity workout with them first, my 12 yr old shootist is eager to "test" too.[smilie=w: .....Best regards, Dennis

[GSaltzman]

Bucks, Most of the cylinder throats on my Bisley will allow a .454 sized bullet to either fall through or very little pressure is needed to pull it through. In your opinion should I size my boolits to .455? I know you have had success with boolits at .454 in your BH. Are you using those boolits with a fairly stiff load to get them to shoot? I have tried Unique loads which chrono'd at 1050 fps range and some 296 loads that went in the 1200 fps range. Neither would shoot very well at 25 yards. I'm talking at least 4"- 5" inch groups. I have shot some winchester cowboy loads that shot the best in this gun to date. It is my understanding that this load uses a boolit sized .455.

[Bucks Owin]

Bucks, Most of the cylinder throats on my Bisley will allow a .454 sized bullet to either fall through or very little pressure is needed to pull it through. In your opinion should I size my boolits to .455? I know you have had success with boolits at .454 in your BH. Are you using those boolits with a fairly stiff load to get them to shoot? I have tried Unique loads which chrono'd at 1050 fps range and some 296 loads that went in the 1200 fps range. Neither would shoot very well at 25 yards. I'm talking at least 4"- 5" inch groups. I have shot some winchester cowboy loads that shot the best in this gun to date. It is my understanding that this load uses a boolit sized .455. You're on the right trail amigo. If my .456" throats will shoot a .454" boolit well, so will your's IMO. And you've got the key already, whack that bullet base hard enough to get some obturation of those .454's. Powder choice is important too and I don't use much UNQ. I think HS-6 works fine with bullets in the 250 gr area. I used a Linebaugh "starting load" of 13-14 grs of it behind Hornady's 255 "cowboy" bullet. 14 grs got me 1160 high 1130 low fps. I feel that I wouldn't use any more HS-6 with this soft bullet though, and will try a little less. Accuracy was uninspiring anyway, 2.5-3". I'm trying some other powders too, namely 2400 and SR-4759. I also give this bullet a coat of LLA before seating. I just wish Hornady would put a crimp groove on this boolit! I use a 250 XTP dummy round to set depth and crimp into the side of the bullet. Crimped over the ogive seems awfully deep to me. I haven't tried the Rem bulk lead but it is said to be .455" and I'll eventually try them too. BTW, I too have gotten good accuracy with WW factory loads, namely the 225 Silvertip. This bullet is .455" with a somewhat hollow base I've heard, but don't quote me. It would make sense though. My early groups with 452" bullets both lead and JHP's over UNQ at 800-1000 fps were as your's, in the 4"+ range....I haven't built any full tilt W296 loads yet for the simple reason my dies (Lee) wouldn't give me any case tension on the bullet in WW cases. I now have an RCBS sizer to try some barnburner W296 loads with. (Dies are another area to be aware of, some size for early SAAMI specs of a .454" bullet) I'm hoping the Lyman 457122 sized to .454" over enough 296/110 to get 1100+ fps will become my mainstay if the accuracy is there. That load and some kind of ACP lightweight for plinking would do me just fine for all my .45 Colt shooting I think...FWIW, Dennis :Fire: Group pictured is the 225 Silvertip:
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a356/BucksOwin/003.jpg

[GSaltzman]

The RCBS 270 SAA was the bullet that I have been trying to get to shoot with my Bisley. I've tried air cooled and water quenched with BHN's from 9 to 19. As cast it will just touch the sides of a 454 sizing die. I tried some as cast and that didn't work either. I guess it wouldn't hurt to try some heavy 296 loads just to see. Are you getting some bullets to try unsized and unlubed? Hammering those bullets that hard would you suggest something in the 15 BHN range. I checked some other cast boolits that had been air cooled and were about 4 weeks old and they tested at 15 BHN. Either I could cast a new batch and let them age or I could water quench them. I have not tried any heavy 296 loads with quenched boolits in this gun. I also tried some Power Pistol in my 45 Colt that gave a little over 1000 fps but that load didn't shoot either. Really appreciate your input. Once I see this thing shoot a bigger boolit I can order a new mold. Really wanted that 270 SAA to work.

[Bucks Owin]

Check your PM GSaltzman...:-)