Diameter size of dropped boolets, problem?

[Changeling]

I don't know if what I'm going to say is a problem or not, but there are some who seem to think it is, and I don't know why, therefore the post.


I have been checking out molds for a new Ruger SS 45 LC, 5.5" that I bought (used). Doing this I heard a gentleman say (I really respect his experience) that he sold a great 45 mold because the throat measured (using fictitious numbers here) .451, and the mold was dropping bullets at .456-.457.

He didn't expound on this as there was no reason for him to do so at the time.

What I can't understand is why did he sell the mold because it was dropping GREAT boolets 5 to 6 thousands over the throat size (and buy another), it was obvious he didn't like this situation at all, and he really knows his stuff.

I know that you can make some boolets and then put them in your Lub-sizer with the proper sizer die and form down the bullet to the size you want.

Question: Can swaging down to much (in lub-sizer) cause problems in the integrity of the bullet somehow or does it effect other things. In this case the bullets were being sized down say 6 thousands. This has really been bothering/bugging me.

[beagle]

In reality, an oversize bullet is all right. The optimum is .001-002" OS IMO. This gives good cleanup when sized and lubed.

It can become a PITA to do all the time if you're only needing a .451" bullet on a regular basis.

The bullet will be elongated, the grease grooves may be compressed a little and if using a base first sizer, the nose may be distorted.

If I was using .451s, I think I'd change too./beagle

[Bret4207]

Beagle has it. The ideal size is that .002 over, +/- , right from the mould. He points out the problems with excessive sizing, I'll point out the basic problem with any sizing- anything you do to the boolit after it leaves the mould is the chance to damage the boolit. In the old days of tong tools it was reportedly common to get oblong boolits. With the older Lyman stepped sizers they would actually shave one side of the boolit if they weren't correctly aligned. The same thing can happen, to a lesser extent, with a modern sizing die. I have actually bent long .315 cal boolits trying to size them to .311. It does your lubrisizer no good either. I've also managed to produce banana boolits with a Lee sizer. I have talent you see!

None of this is to say sizing ALWAYS harms the boolit, but logic says it increases the chances over using an as cast boolit.

[luke777]

Changeling.

Good question and great answers gentlemen. Thanks for posting this question as I was about to ask the same one myself.

Truly a great forum is this one.

Luke

[Changeling]

Beagle has it. The ideal size is that .002 over, +/- , right from the mould. He points out the problems with excessive sizing, I'll point out the basic problem with any sizing- anything you do to the boolit after it leaves the mould is the chance to damage the boolit. In the old days of tong tools it was reportedly common to get oblong boolits. With the older Lyman stepped sizers they would actually shave one side of the boolit if they weren't correctly aligned. The same thing can happen, to a lesser extent, with a modern sizing die. I have actually bent long .315 cal boolits trying to size them to .311. It does your lubrisizer no good either. I've also managed to produce banana boolits with a Lee sizer. I have talent you see!

None of this is to say sizing ALWAYS harms the boolit, but logic says it increases the chances over using an as cast boolit.

I see exactly what you are saying, I thought there was a problem, Logic. So I really appreciate the replies. I haven't measured the throat and bore yet but now at least I know what I'm doing and why.
Thank you. YES, you do have talent!

[HORNET]

Whether that made sense kind of depends on what the barrel slugged. Ruger has had a history of .451 throats and .453 barrels. The sensible thing to do in that case is to fix the throats to .454 and size at .455. You should check both. BTW, that .457 would have been fun from a .45-70.

[bigboredad]

I have 2 blackhawks on one the throats are .452 and the barrel .452the other has throats .453 and its barrel is .452 I size a 340 grain that drops .458 to .454 and it shoots great out of both guns and my sizer is a lee sizer. I have no problems sizing or loading these bullets

[RobS]

Yep, it comes down to a preference when sizing down a bullet from let's say .001 which is like working a knife through butter and having no distortion of the bullet or sizing down .005 and having the possibilities of distortion and the extra effort in sizing the bullet down. Like bigboredad mentioned he sizes down a .458 rifle bullet to .454 as this will work for his revolvers cylinder throats and groove diameter. I too size down the RCBS 45-300-FN-U rifle bullet, I believe the same bullet bigboredad is referring to, and was lucky in finding a member here to sell his mold to me. The mold I have casts out a 340 grain bullet at .457 so sizing down to .454 is easy especially shortly after casting as the bullets are still quite soft.

I like to size to the cylinder throats and prefer to have a .002 over groove diameter. Sizing to the cylinder throats also allows the bullet to stay centered in the cylinder and will also allow less possibilities of gas cutting. As stated the biggest problems have been with Rugers undersized throats in relationship to the bore diameters. A bullet that is sized correctly to only be swaggered down smaller than the bore upon leaving the cylinder will create an environment that is more susceptible to barrel leading and an individual who owns a revolver with this situation will more than likely have difficulties regarding accuracy.

It can be done, shooting bullets from a cylider throat at or a touch under groove diameter, but a person will have to use soft alloys in relation to the pressures so the bullet will obturate (bump up) and seal the bore. The bad thing is I have never been able to push heavy rounds (high velocity/high pressure rounds) this way as the softer bullets can never withstand the stresses of the application.

You can slug the bore with a soft fishing weight and then check to make sure at the least that the bore slug will go through the cylinder throats and even better if it is loose (.001 to .002 is great). You probably want to slug your cylinders too; I do both as it is a more precise fit for your revolver. Lets say you have a .451 groove diameter so logically a .452 sizing die is good, but without checking one could have .454 cylinder throats. With this type of scenario, sized to .454 is your better option in my opinion.