40 cal from 9mm easiest by far and cheap!

[BT Sniper]

Spent a little time weight sorting some 9mm brass and 125 grain 9mm cast boolits. This has got to be one of the easiest bullets to make I think. I too skipped the core seating step and went straight to the Swage die to get the final bullet in one stroke of the press. Would deffenatly recomend this set up to anyone wanting to get started in this hobby cheaply.

Not looking for match grade accuracy from a 40 S&W so I figure I'll go for less labor and more volume for some fun shooting.

What I came up with was a 190 grain 40 cal JHP bullet. Took a bit of video of just how quick and easy it can be. I'll see if I can figure out how to post it now. Sorry you got to put up with my ugly mug.

9mm and 125 grain cast boolit core
https://i.imgur.com/0cbP32Wl.jpg


core droped in to case
https://i.imgur.com/wBnVUrSl.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/YTbIl95l.jpg

[BT Sniper]

EDIT 10-17-2011

Original video link seems INOP. Here is the link to the same video as posted below.

http://s636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/?action=view&current=P1020390.mp4&mediafilter=videos

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/th_P1020390.jpg (http://s636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/?action=view&current=P1020390.flv)

[sst04]

Thats awsome.

[warf73]

I have a 40 that I would love to get started swaging for so please give us/me a run down of what we/I need to reproduce what you did.

9mm Brass
What 9mm boolit mold?
What swaging die (brand).

Thanks Warf

[warf73]

Great video by the way shows how easy swaging bullets can be.

[Southern Son]

B.T. that is great. But next time could you use one of the Dillon Models?

[luober]

to: BT

what type of press are you using? did you make the handle for it? have you had any problems with the press cracking or warping? are the cast bullets made of pure lead or scrap?
thanks,
luober

[ANeat]

Those look great for sure,

[scrapcan]

Here is a little info on what he is using from other posts in swaging forum

C-H tool and Die 101 series swage dies

http://www.ch4d.com/catalog/?p=85

looks like just belled 9mm case - but he may have annealed them.

cast bullet looks like a 125 grain lee mould

I did not see it but with his press and handle he may not need to lube the case before the swage operation. It will make it easier to swage if you lube.

I am using lyman orange crusher with 357 and 41 ch 101 dies. the 357 I am using commecial jackets and 314 cast boolits (311008) and for the 41 I have messed with reduced 40 S&W and 9mm. I don't have a 41 so it is just excercise at this point. I am using range scrap from an indoor range for my cores/cast bullets.

It truly is as easy as he shows in the video

[BT Sniper]

I'll get you guys a run down soon. CH 101 series swage die. Redding big boss press with bigger handel, annealed brass, lanolin swage lub, Lee 125 grain .356 cast boolit mold for starters.

[richbug]

I sense a shortage of 9mm brass coming on in my area.

I wonder if CH will sell just that half of their 101 die set.

[BT Sniper]

"But next time could you use one of the Dillon Models?"

???? A dillon press??? I'm sure it work just don't have one.

[BT Sniper]

Yep, you can buy the dies individualy. All you would need for this bullet is the 101 series .400swage die and the base punch. Think it would be like $90. Not sure where I got that dollar amount. I think I called once to ask the same question and seem to remember about that much.

[richbug]

How long is your finished bullet? How big is the diameter in the web area just forward of the extractor groove?

[SWANEEDB]

Hey BT, I'm impressed, just ordered a set of swage dies--however, don't you use the 355 series for the 9mm? And while were at it, can 40cal brass be used to make boolits for the 44 mag, if so i'll bump up my order from CH.

[scrapcan]

Do a search in the Swaging section for threads by BTsniper or kawalekm. BT has made 44 and detailed the method in a few posts. also one of the first will give you a line up of what he has made so far using cartridge brass as jackets.

[BT Sniper]

Here would be my recommendations for this project.

A decent reloading press. Cast iron is best but any decent one would work as long as you don't get to crazy with the force. I did break all my cheap presses using to much force. A RCBS Rock Chucker or a Lee Classic cast iron press would be my choice even over the redding big boss I have. Cost about $125 I did strengthen my press with some larger bolts, stronger steel and larger arm for a lot of leverage. I can easily break the dies now if I'm not carfull. By the time you get to that much pressure some warnings should be going off in your head that you are using to much.

A digital scale is almost a must for using brass cartridges for jackets. These cases varry by as much as ten grains and even the best at casting cores will still varry a grain or two so max varation could be over 10 grains from bullet to bullet. Cost... should be able to find a decent one around or under $100

CH-4d 101 series Swage die. $130 for the swage and core seat die or maybe $90 or so for the swage die and base punch seperate. If you have any skill at all with some tools you can make the interinal parts of the die better then what comes with it and save a few more $. this is what I do.

I don't care for the 105 series type dies that only make half jackets.

A Lee bullet mold for a 120 grain 9mm .356 bullet. The 6 cavities are by far better quallity for about $50 with handle but the 2 cavity molds work just as good for $15. The less lube groves it has the better, tumble lube would probabbly even work best. I use the 125 grain .356 mold. It is just a bit much as I wind up with a bit of lead exposed at the tip. I think the 120 grain would be just about perfect for the size of the 9mm case.

A Lee lead melting pot $20-$40. I got the 20lb bottom pore and like it.

9mm brass. Nearly free or can be bought for about $20-$25 per K. Don't spend to much for the brass as comercial jackets could be bought if you spend that much.

Lead. Any scrap lead will work as long as it is soft. Wheel weight alloy will ware out the week interinal parts of the CH dies and as such they addvise against using anything harder then 5 on the BNH scale (soft lead). I do get away with using wheel weight alloy with carfull practice and the improved interial parts I have made for the die.

Lube. Imperial sizing wax will work but a quick online order for some pure anhydrous lanolin will get you a life time supply for like $15. Better then the Imperial.

You got to fully anneal the brass. There is a lot of info on the sight for different techniques but a gas BBQ grill and a stainless steel sink collender ($15 wallmart) works best for me.

A 9mm sizing die is nice to bell out the mouth of the case for the core to easily fit inside. with out belling the case the lead core tends to grab at the jacket durning forming and cause wrinkels or uneven amounts of exposed lead in the finished bullet. I'm sure a Lee sizing die can be had for $10 or so.

Once you start you will find all sorts of fun stuff that can be done and better techniques to increase speed and production. It is like any hobby as you can spend as little or as much as you like. Tally up the numbers and I imagine you could started out with absolutly nothing and could be making shootable bullets for under a $400 investment. Proably take about 2K worth of bullets to get your money back over just buying factory but what fun would that be to just shoot factory. After you have the tools I figure I can shoot a 40 cal for the cost of a primmer and 5 grains of powder, like 5 cents a piece.

Now here is a fun little side note too. Selling custom bullets is a bit tough and you will never get paid for your labor but trading custom bullets is easy. All the brass I could ever need to make or reload bullets with I have obtained from trading custom bullets.

So after this long book of Bullet Swaging 101 here is my disclamer. I have not actually shot this 40 cal bullet yet. I am getting ready to send some out to a freind for testing so I'll get a report back as far as how they work. The technique is the same I have used for every other caliber I have made and have got exellent results from myself and other shooters.

Think of all the guys out there that have been interested in swaging bullets especialy the .223 from 22LR and have been scared away by the cost of Corbins equipment. Hopfully we can intice a few to give this simple 40 cal bullet a try with materials that are easy to find and a standard reloading press many allready have for some fun cheap shooting.

With sales pitchs like that you would thnk CH sould be giving us some cut backs.

Good luck and good shooting,

Brian

Sorry for the long book here and thanks for your time spent reading it. Happy Holidays.

[BT Sniper]

"kawalekm"

Got to give credit to the one that got me into this hobby. Michael is the MAN!

Swaneedb,

101 series dies are what you want. Then any of the pistol calibers can be selected. I want to shoot a .400 bullet out of a 40S&W with a bullet made from a 9mm case so I ordered the 101 series .400 swaging die set. I have not made any in .355 but have in .357.

Yes 40 S&W brass is the same process and can be made the exact same way and is how I started. The larger diameter requires just a bit more force but just as easy to make as the 40 cal. It was a toss up between the 2 as to which is easier.

Thanks for the help Manleyjt in spreading the knowledge:-)

[BT Sniper]

"How long is your finished bullet? How big is the diameter in the web area just forward of the extractor groove?"

A good question, one that sounds as though he has some experience in this type of project. This is the challenge sometime when turning brass into shootable jackets.

A quick check of the factory specs for the 9mm case shows me the rim is .392 and length is .754.

My bullet exited the die (as measured with a caliper don't have a mic) at .3990 from the base, including rim and web portion just ahead of extracter grove all the way up to tangent of baring surface and the begining curve of the nose of the bullet. I had no problem getting the case to expand to the inner diminition of the CH die (got to anneal the brass!) I just think I got a tight die that makes them .001 small which is certainly better then .001 to big. Do check the the bullets you make as I have got some that have been a hair oversized from CH.

Bullet length is .705 with a .085 deep hollow point. My own design with the HP and probably to small for the slow fps of the 40 S&W but with a bigger HP the length of the bullet increases and this was allready a pretty long bullet. The thick brass base of the bullet adds the length with little mass that makes these bullet longer then most factory I guess.

[d_striker]

Awesome...

Can't wait to see how accuracy is.

Just to clarify, I would order the 101400HP from http://www.ch4d.com/catalog/?p=85 to get the bullets you made above? And that includes everything that I would need?

Also, would you recommend getting the hollow point or soft nose dies?

[BT Sniper]

Every time I reread this post I find more ?s Hope I can answer them for you all. If I miss one post it again for me.

Warf73, love your signature! chocolats vs. jalapenos:)

The video is how it goes when everything works the way it is supposed to. Let me say that make a bullet from a brass jacket has been an adventure for me. It has been a very challenging task with nights of extreem frustration, some blood, and plenty of choice words but when it worked out the way it is supposed to I have stood up and cheered too. Felt like every time the bullet pops out of the die it is like opening a pressent, that is when it worked. Funny thing is that a night when nothing seemed to work I could take a short break and come back using same tools and then everything worked fine. I really learned in this hobby when things are not going well you need to stand up leave and take a break before you break somthing. I have got my thumb caught between the punch and bottom of die when my press handel decided to cycle sending the ram and punch upword. Have also brooke 3 presses and 2 dies so there can be many challenges to this hobby (the presses where cheep alunimum that I had in my colection) I'll post the pics.

luober,

Yes and no with the presses. I total broke a cheaper yet good RCBS cast alunimum press by using a biger handel and trying to make 44s. The reloading press has week spots. First it was the junction of the handel and the conection it makes to the ram. Then the frame on my RCBS. The support rods that hold the handel to the press will bend the bolts used to hold it together. The rockchucker is a better design for this. My Redding Big Boss is a cast iron press yet the ram itself has to be made from some of the softest metal I have ever used, a step up from tin I think so swagign with extreem PSI has stressed the spot where you insert the shell holder. Don't know about the steel used in the RCBS or Lee clasic cast but has to be better then the Redding. All those cut outs for primmer arms and dispenscers weekens the ram as you can imagine.

As far as warping or bendign the cast iron press I think the die will blow before that happens.

I did make a custom arm for my press and stronger larger bolts to conect everything with but it was only because of the design of the press. I think the rockchucker and Lee clasic cast has a better set up.

Brian

[BT Sniper]

I seem to be one post behind here. Accuracy from brass cartridge jacketed bullets I have found to be pretty good not match grade but good. From a 40 S&W I am not expecting much better then 1 cantalope MOA at 25 yrds but have been plesently supprised before.

"Elkhunter" here has said his bullets from brass cases have all been very good shooters.

I do plan to shoot these from a Hi-Point 40 cal carbine just for fun as you can see it does not take a lot for me to make them. Just got to find the gun now. I always seem to buy the carrage before the horse.

BT

[richbug]

I was thinking about the utility of the bullet more than the making. At .705 you are a good bit longer than any 40 caliber bullet out there. Hornady 200's only run about .670"

I think you'd be better off with a flat nose so the length could be shorter.


I tried CH 3 times, and got their machine 3 times, I hate answering machines. I'll make my own set, but am going to make them point down I think, and form that long round nose shape that I want.

[d_striker]

BT- question for you at bottom of pg 1

[BT Sniper]

Richbug,

Yeh that was somthing I too was concerned with and seems to be the case when making bullets from brass jackets. Caution is just going to have to be used when reloading and attention to COL. I purposly made the HP shallow trying for sorter bullet. As we will not be getting these bulllets up to a high FPS and not worried about expansion a flat nose would probably be better.

As I measure the bullet I get .670 from the base to the tip of the jacket where the protruding lead tip extends another .035 so I think with less lead (120 grain vs 125 grain core) we could surly get this length down to a managable size. Could probably even go 10 grains less and if I was able to compress the jacket a bit get it down further still. As is everything with this hobby I still have some tryle and error to go in the perfection of this bullet.

Here is a neat little trick I have learned...... since we are using a case with a extration grove for a jacket we can mount the formed bullet in a case trimmer and shorten the nose ogive. I'll trim one down to .670 and see what it looks like and weight. I have a flat nose punch I'll try that too see what I come up with.

Thanks

BT

[BT Sniper]

Striker,

Yes those are all the dies you would need and all the dies I use to make these bullets with. I have not used the core seat die for this caliber yet although it may not be needed it can only help you make a better bullet. As you can see a few $ may be saved if you just get the "swage" die for .400 in the 101 series of dies though like I said having a core seating die will not hurt you a bit for a few extra $ you can learn how to do it correctly as well. Either way $130 is very reasonable for the set.

It does take a mallet/hammer to eject any of these bullets untill you can come up with a simple design with some allthread rod and some scrap metal like you see on my press that will eject the bullet on the up stroke of the press.

And ofcourse there is everything else too that you will need that I mentioned before but as far as your order for dies with CH-4d that would do it, you are on your way.:Fire:

As far as HP or soft nose I think unless you are concerned with terminal expansion for hunting purposes the HP may not be needed and being that this will be a long for weight bullet the flat nose may actually help us keep the length down a bit.

I will still experiment and I know that if we use less lead in the core we could use the HP design. If you are good with a dremmil or file you can always file down the HP cone to turn it into a Flat Nose design but it is harder to go the other way from FN to HP. I have only ever bought the complete set for the 44 cal and I got the HP so I don't know what the softnose looks like but I could easily turn my HP design into a Soft point/Flat nose with a quick touch of a file or dremmil.

Good luck to you and anyone that pursue this hobby and if you can roll with the difficult/challenging parts it will get to be a lot of fun. We certainly have a lot of great guys here with a welth of knowledge on the subject avialble to help. I'll certainly do what I can. I don't claim to be an expert here either as there are many with more knowledge on the subject. I do like to show that it can be done for resonalble cost and can be fun. Do your research on the forums here as everything you could possibly need to know is posted somewhere (finding it can be time consuming somtimes and ofcourse feel free to ask ?s).

Good shooting,

BT

[BT Sniper]

Starting from nothing.

RCBS Rockchucker press $130
CH-4d 101 series .400 die set $130 ( could just get the swage die and save a bit)
Lee 2 cavity .356 120 grain mold $20
Lee 9mm expander die $10
20lb Lee lead melting pot bottom poor $80 (thought it was cheaper sorry)
digital scale optional $80 estamate
1000 rounds of 9mm brass $25
50 lb lead say about $40
Stainless steel collender to anneal brass in BBQ $15
Lanolin to lube case estamate $20
a vibrating case cleaner is nice $40 (Wow on clearance at midway for half price $*!& sold out)

Can't think of much more at the moment and a lot of these things anyone that reloads (you would have to if you are going to make these, I can be a bit slow) should allready have. These are retail prices I found on the web too, I bet most could be found at half the cost or less used minus the dies.

OK been on this computer to long today off to make some bullets.

BT

[d_striker]

What exactly does the core seat die do? What exactly is a base punch?

Does CH offer any mod that will eject the bullet on the upstroke if I don't want to use a mallet to eject the finished bullet? What did you do to achieve this?

Thanks for all the info.

[BT Sniper]

The base punch or swage punch as it is labled in the CH parts section ( check there web page in the bullet thread under 101 swage die parts list #10) is what is held in place by the shell holder on the ram of your reloading press. It pushes the bullet into the die. You can see it in the pic of my press that the bullet is sitting on top of after being formed.

The core seat die properly secures the lead core to the inside of the jacket as well as brings everything to with a couple thousands of final bullet diameter. It does most of the work and by design can handle the extra force needed to fill out the core and jacket to allmost final diameter so the only work the "swage" die has to do is bump it up the final thousandth and form the point. Being that the 9mm case is allready so close to .400 and if you are able to properly anneal (soften) the case and are willing to subject your point forming swage die to a bit more pressure it dosen't seem to be a problem turning out decent bullets by skipping the core seating step. I guess it is just a lazy way of doing thing that only saves one step in the process yet cuts the production time in half. Probably a little hard on the swage die too but I have not had a swage die give out on me yet because I was skipping the core seat step. Granted I would only recamend this with the 40 from 9mm and 44 from 40 S&W projects since the case dimintions are so close.

I have not seen any thing avialable comercialy to eject the bullet on the up stroke. It was fairly easy for me to make and I'm sure myself or someone else could be convenced to make one. As you can see it is just 2 pieces of all thread, 8 nuts, 2 pieces of steel, and a 1/4 in bolt to eject everything with. The trick is getting the holes to line up and fit it to the ram of the press.

If I was really ambitious I would offer these upgraded parts for the CH dies and bullet ejectors. Just need to find some time. I think it would be a pretty good set up and then you could just by the swage die by it's self for $50. Offcourse then you would have to buy the upgraded parts from me. That may be somthing I'll look into.

[BT Sniper]

I have a friend with a lathe and mill. If I was really good I would figure out a quick fast way remove the rim at the base of the bullet. That would shave about 15 grains and shorten by .1 to get (guessing here on weight) a 175 grain JHP bullet .605 in length.

[BT Sniper]

Tryed some different weight cores and figure you can go from 105-130 grains in lead core weight with a standard well annealed brass 9mm case. Any more and it gets pretty long, any less and you start to compress the brass jacket since there is less lead to fill it up with. compressing the jacket alot can cause some problems in the form of either wrinkles in the final bullet or to much pressure on your equipment.

These different weight cores made bullets from 165-190 grains. You can easily make them lighter but I would reccamend trimming the brass case a bit first.

Was able to get the length down to .640 with the lighter bullets and still a small hollow point.

I hope I get a 40 S&W soon!

Good shooting

BT

[BT Sniper]

Here is a few pics from my learning experiences. Just to show I am not perfect and it can be challenging some times. Also found some good pics of my press with modifications and the large hammer I will never have to swing again. That was one of the stand up a cheer moments when I no longer had to wake the wife with the loud banging on the dies.

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/agravation.jpg

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/extreemthirds.jpg

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/DSCF9623.jpg

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/DSCF9635.jpg

[Dannix]

Here's the direct link for the video for anyone else that would like to save it to their hard drive:
Right Click, Save As (http://vid636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/P1020390.flv)

Got it by going to ShareThisVideo, More, GetLinkCode, HTMLForWebpagesAndBlogs. Then just deleted the unneeded HTML stuff. You can watch flv files with VLC (http://www.videolan.org/vlc/) (you'll probably want the Windows binary).

[Dannix]

This is such a cool project, though it pains my heart to see 9mm brass used in such a way as that's what I'll be reloading here shortly. :smile:

Interesting about your comment on reloading presses -- I've always thought of the Reddings as basically only second the the Co-Ax. Also found you commends on the CH dies interesting -- Have you posted a thread on your die improvements?

I was considering getting into swaging by going with a Co-Ax and CH dies, but your postings have revealed the weakness of this route, particularly was I was planning on wheel weights as being by lead source.


Time-wise, it's a bummer you have to cast first with this method. I wonder if it would be possible to cast lead wire somehow, or cast directly tubing. I assume for guys with deep pockets there are ways to make lead wire sans the melting process.

[ANeat]

BT I see you have some RC airplane blood in ya ;)


Dannix as for the cores and brass, well you can used berdan 9mm brass. I have quite a bit saved up for projects like this.
For cores you can buy lead wire but for WW just casting the cores is pretty fast. Nothing wrong with the bullet mold for cores. Pretty handy really. I think it would be tough to extrude WW alloy into wire. Cant say that Ive tried it though

[Dannix]

Didn't noticed the Futuba box until you mentioned it. Just thinking about it makes me want to put together an old fashioned balsa kit. :)

Ooh, good call on berdan brass. After reading a bit here I'm kicking myself for not picking up 22LR brass at the range. :) Also going to start saving used primers and giving DYI primers a go, just for yucks.

[ANeat]

He has a few airframes hanging up in the background of the video as well.


Anymore I try to get about any brass. I havent resorted to picking up all the 22lr yet but I do save what I shoot

[docone31]

Dannix,
Don't get a kit, get blues!
I scratch built for years. I loved the 1/4scale. Sailplanes mostly.
RCM Magazine has lots of blues from a long time ago to now.

[d_striker]

Bt-I've watched the video over and over and I still don't see how your addition makes the bulle drop free. Can you explain how it works.

Also, before you added it, did the bullet get stuck in the die or on the base punch?

[Sonoma2k2]

that has got to be one of the most awesome things I have learned!! I don't personally own a 40 but i got a 357sig so i could get another barrel.

now i do save my 22lr cases from time to time, what can i make with those little boogers? I got quite a few 223's and 243. throw your knowledge my way and into my dumpster some call a brain BT!!!

[ANeat]

Striker the rod in the middle knocks out the bullet. Its attatched to the ram so as the ram comes down the bullet gets ejected.

On regular CH dies you are supposed to wack it with the hammer to knock out the bullet.

Here is a video of a CH die being used without the mods

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqRlgiwczzo&feature=related

[BT Sniper]

Dannix,

The Redding is a good press for sure I just think the ram is made from to soft of metal. Certainly good for reloading purposes. If you pay attention to how the suport arms that hold the arm assembly to the press you will notice the Redding big boss is only supported on one side of each arm and designs like the rockchucker and Lee clasic cast supports this spot on both sides. Hope I explaned that clearly. I know of a one guy that broke the rockchucker where the handel joins the piece coneted to the ram and support arms. This is where I broke my cheaper RCBS too. then I made a stronger set up and broke the cheaper RCBS all together. I'll get a pic of that soon.

A coax and ch dies would certainly be all you need to make a lot of bullets. The dies themselfs are strong enough to last a life time. the interial parts could use a stronger design but when used as dirrected they work great. I may just post a thread on the die improvments someday.

[BT Sniper]

Sonoma,

Turning 22lr into .223-.264 bullets has got to be one of the most popular topics on this board. I have not tryied it yet. Check some of the long threads all ready in progress as they will have more to offer then I.

Thanks for the compliments.

Bt

[BT Sniper]

Striker,

Aneat sumed it up pretty good. Check the pic I posted of the components I attacted to the ram of the press. With the piece of steel attached to the ram and the threaded rods connected to it. Then another piece of steel conected to the top of the rods with an 1/4" ejecting rod in the middle facing down threw a hole in the top of the dies. When the ram comes back down so does everything connected to it (2 pieces of steel, 2 threaded rods, 8 nuts and one 1/4" upside down rod you get the idea). The 1/4" rod pushes the internial parts of the die back down ejecting the bullet. Otherwise the bullet is still in the die waiting for you to manually eject it with a mallet.

Absoltly the best thing I have made for this set up. Not my design as it has been done before and posted here on the sight.

[BT Sniper]

Yes I have quite a few RC planes. Been building them since I was 12. Became an airline pilot then the hobby felt a little like work. Now I no longer fly for a living so I can enjoy my hobby again. I rotate between all my hobbies depending on time of year. I like to make my own everything, DIY. Model airplanes, fishing flys and poles, lead weights, bullets, auto body work and paint, reloading, gun stocks, bit of machine work and tooling, cooking, as you can see in the video I am no stranger to good food.

[BT Sniper]

Dannix,

Casting lead boolits to be used for cores is one of the more enjoyable parts of this hobby, actually a bit of stress relief for me. If you ask me I think casting boolits as compared to swaging bullets is by far easier and more enjoyable. I just like the look of a jacketed bullet compared to bare lead.

With a inexpensive lee boolit mold you can turn out hundreds of boolits in just an 1 hour time and that is with a 2 cavity mold. With a 6 cavity mold it can be a couple thousand per hour and just as good as using wire without the need to cut anything.

9mm and 40 S&W brass has got to be the least expensive brass out there to obtain. I can get it for $56 shipped for 3k worth just have to look around a bit. Then when you get good making bullets you can trade brass for bullet at a rate of 20-1. Doesn't take long to acquire a LOT of brass. Great thing about this is the brass is never to old to be used as a jacket. I have a lot of berdan too. Not to many people reloading that stuff.

BT

[d_striker]

Striker the rod in the middle knocks out the bullet. Its attatched to the ram so as the ram comes down the bullet gets ejected.

On regular CH dies you are supposed to wack it with the hammer to knock out the bullet.

Here is a video of a CH die being used without the mods

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqRlgiwczzo&feature=related

I get it now...Genius. I would definitely buy that in a kit if it was available.

[BT Sniper]

" I would definitely buy that in a kit if it was available. "

What press do you have? I may have some time and could possibly put somthing together.

[Dannix]

broke the rockchucker where the handel joins the piece coneted to the ram and support arms. This is where I broke my cheaper RCBS too. then I made a stronger set up and broke the cheaper RCBS all together. I'll get a pic of that soon.
Pics of press destruction is always cool. :mrgreen:


The dies themselfs are strong enough to last a life time. the interial parts could use a stronger design but when used as dirrected they work great. I may just post a thread on the die improvments someday.
A thread post on this would be awesome and very much appreciated!

In regards to casting, it was on my to do list once one of these days I pick up a single action for lead-only purposes. Now I have another reason to start casting.

[chrisx1]

that has got to be one of the most awesome things I have learned!! I don't personally own a 40 but i got a 357sig so i could get another barrel.

now i do save my 22lr cases from time to time, what can i make with those little boogers? I got quite a few 223's and 243. throw your knowledge my way and into my dumpster some call a brain BT!!!

Sonoma,
Why don't you just get the .355 dies from CH40 and swage for the SIG? I have been following BT's posts because I can't cast for my sig, and I would like to shoot it more.

IMO, I'll cast for the .40 and swage for the SIG.

[shooterg]

C-H used to make a bullet ejector that used an eccentric lobe to push your new bullet out. The one pictured is mine - I don't need it with the Corbin press/Blackmon dies I have now so if anybody wants it, it can be had !

[BT Sniper]

I have one of those too given to me by a friend. Havn't tried it yet. I'll have to see how well it works. Didn't know it was a CH tool. Kind of forgot about it.

[d_striker]

" I would definitely buy that in a kit if it was available. "

What press do you have? I may have some time and could possibly put somthing together.

If I got that die, I would get a dedicated single stage press for seating. Probably a lee classic cast or something used if I could find it.

I spent my gun/reloading allowance so I wouldn't be able to do this for at least a few months. Thanks for the offer, I'll pm you in the future.

[SWANEEDB]

Hey BT, What are your thoughts on useing berdan casings, the CCI aluminum type, that material is so soft probably would not need to be annealed. Thanks.

[BT Sniper]

Never thought of that? I know the Nickel cases got shot down because of the ware and tare on the dies and barrel.

I would certainly give it a try but I don't have any. Know of anyone that does?

What would aluminum do inside a barrel? May be pretty cool and you are probably correct that I would not have to anneal it. Not for sure on that though. Someone send me some I'll give it a try.

[ANeat]

My first thoughts on the aluminum cases were aluminum oxide, which is very hard, as in abrasive.

But then dont bullets like winchester slivertips have an aluminum jacket???

I know guys here are making gas checks out of aluminum

[BT Sniper]

Now I remember the al oxide discusion. I know of silver tips with al used as the tip cover but it did not extend down to the tangent of the bullet to engage the riffling. I;m sure some one may step in on the subject.

[SWANEEDB]

Thanks for the return BT, I'll make it to the indoor range in the A M, see what I can come up with, who knows. I going ga ga on this swaging thing, just ordered from CH, 9 & 40 in the 101, now I'll have 5 sets, already have 3 sets in the 105's. Recently bought a bunch of swaging equipment from a person who had not used for about 20 yrs, included 2 corbin sets, 38/357 AAAAAANNNNNNDDDDDDDDDD a 3 die set for 22's. 6 months ago I had never poured a drop of lead in my life, been reloading for about 40 yrs or so, Now my boolit mold inventory is around 60 or so, also just picked up two star lubers and 5 H & G 6 cav molds---------NOW, am I HOOKED or WHAT? Hope I got the time to use em all. Thanks for all you do and share.

[SWANEEDB]

OH, and while I'm on a roll, as soon as I get some boolits turned out I'll take some pics, got it down pat on doing the XTP thing, also too round off the tips I have run them in a larger sizer die with a round nose bullet seater, does a pretty good job.

[BT Sniper]

Awesome! You are going to like the 101 series dies compaired to the 105s. Do let us know how it goes and post ?s as needed. Everything you need to know is posted here somewhere too. When you run low on brass for bullets I know of a couple good sorces.

BT

[SWANEEDB]

Bed time here, but. My inventory of 9s and 40s is almost endless, maybe 20/30K of em, keep me busy for awhile, lead is on the short list.

[BT Sniper]

Would sure like to see the xtp bullets you are able to make as well as any other pics you care to share.

A note to the many here that swage bullets. Take some good notes as far as the jacket weight vs. core as well as anything else that you might think is small in importance. I took a 3 month break from making bullets and in some cases it had been longer since I had made a piticular caliber. Then I look at bullet X in my collection and wonder just how did I do that? Probably the CRS syndrom going around I guess.

Happend to check prices on the Lee clasic cast iron press. Midway had them for $75. I paid $125 for my redding big boss. Never seen the lee up close. From the look of it I would say the handle conection would be teh week spot. I'm sure if I accuried one I would change it out. Looks like it has a long stroke too. if you replaced the location of one of the bolts you can cut the stroke distance in half yet probably double the availble force. Even 2" in movement is enough for most of these bullets.

[smilin-buddha]

I am really enjoying this post.

[Sonoma2k2]

Sonoma,
Why don't you just get the .355 dies from CH40 and swage for the SIG? I have been following BT's posts because I can't cast for my sig, and I would like to shoot it more.

IMO, I'll cast for the .40 and swage for the SIG.

I do cast for the 357sig. I bought a lee 124gr TC mold and love it. the boolits drop pretty good. I need to research this stuff more cuz i got no idea what all i would be buying.

I got a RockChucker, dies for 38spl,357mag,9mm,40,357sig,223rem and 243. I know i could stand to gain from this swagging but I need to know what to get, "what not to buy "junk" etc. As I told BT i am very interested in this and intrigued. If you need any sig brass let me know and i'll hook you up good.

[BT Sniper]

Sonoma,

There is plenty of neat tricks that can be done with a piece of brass and some lead. the 40 cal and 44 cal is the only two I can think of that can be formed so easily in one stroke of the press. There is info here on forming the 357 from scap brass but the challenge is getting it down to size first. Take your time and study some of the previous threads on the caliber.

Can you imagine cutting up one of the .223 cases you reload?

The sig case would also make a good 44 cal bullet. Keep me in mind if you truly have a lot extra.

[sargenv]

There was a thread here somewhere that someone was using both ends of 223 brass to make jacketed bullets (brass was chopped in two).. It wasn't you was it?

[d_striker]

How long do you anneal the cases for?

Also, when lubing do you have to lube each case before swaging? Or is it like sizing bottleneck cases and you only have to lube every few cases or so.

[BT Sniper]

I cook it in a gutted BBQ grill in a stainless steel strainer. Checking temp making sure it reaches 700+ and then till they all glow.

[BT Sniper]

Wasn't me, Michael "Kawalem" I think I'm close on his handel though I'm sure I spelled it wrong. He beet me to it. It was his post. Makes great 357 bullets by the way.

[Sonoma2k2]

hey BT I got oodles of it "357sig" it's all speer nickel finished though. I got a state policeman up a few houses. He recognized my truck tag "357sig" and bought me thousands of cases. cant beat dat with a dat beater in my eyes. maybe we can do sum swapping. take care guys.

[Harmon_Greer]

how do these bullets shoot?


and, where can you buy commercial 40 caliber jackets?

Harmon

[Ammosmith]

Is the ejector system a home built? If not where do I find one for a RCBS Rock Chucker? Thanks.

[BT Sniper]

Yep home built. I hope to put some together someday to offer to others.

Don't know how they shoot yet. Have not tried as I don't have a 40 cal yet but hope to soon. Don't know about the jackets either. I would guess Sierra or Corbin but then it gets just as expensive as it is to buy the bullets.

[Dannix]

I ruined a ~1k batch of 9mm brass -- forgot about them in an vinegar solution for several days -- so I'm looking forward to trying this on a Lee Classic Cast as a summer project. :D

Harmon, I like Precision Delta for commercial plinking bullets -- they're cheap, at least in 9mm anyway.

BT, FYI you may want to steer clear of the Glock 40s if you aren't already aware of their issues. I'm not aware of any of the .40 Glock clones having the same issues.

[bohica2xo]

And people here thought my vinegar solution was "too weak / too slow" LOL

I do agree on the 40 cal pistol - for Brian. He is a tinkerer & reloader, something the 40 cal Glock does not tolerate well.

If I had to recomend a 40 cal pistol for him, it would be a CZ 75B in 40 cal. Tough, with ergonomics similar to the AutoMag he already owns. The CZ design is a great one.

I own several tupperware pistols, and shoot the hell out of them - not a single one in 40 cal however.

B.

[sqlbullet]

Skip the lightweight 40. You already reload, so go for the 10mm. I would suggest an EAA Witness Elite Match. Scary accurate, pleasant to shoot, very strong and usually can be had new in box for $550.00 including FFL fees.

Easy to download to 40S&W ballistics if that is what you want.

And, I would be glad to test some of those bullets for you in my Elite Match just to be sure they are OK.

[BT Sniper]

Many great recamendations here I'm sure. I have seen the results of the 40S&W vs. the Glock when the glock lost. Not to wory I plan to stay away.

I wish the 10mm brass was as plentiful as the 40 S&W it would be a no brainer then. No doubt that 10mm is a great shooter.

Not sure what I want really in the 40 cal dept. As I don't shoot many pistols and really may just need a fun cheap stress releaving gun that goes bang, I may still be leaning towards the Hi-Point 40 cal Carbine. Talked to my local gun dealer, he said about $200 when they become avialable. We shall see.

Should I fall into some extra $ and feel the need for an accurate 40 cal I'll certainly check out the recamended models thanks.

As for testing some bullets I may just take you up on your offer. PM me your address. Got some 44 cal orders to fill first and still working on final weight and desing of the 40s so it may be a little while, not long though. What weight shoots well for you?

[BT Sniper]

Dannix,

Did it eat holes in the brass?

I left one case in the same solution and all that was left was a bit of the rim. Don't remember how long it sat in there but it did the job.

[scrapcan]

I second the cz75B or clone. If you get a forty you can put a 9mm barrel in it and do well without buying the entire top end for 9mm. I have a clone in 9mm and wish it were the other way.

[Rich219]

Very cool!

[sqlbullet]

If you aren't going straight to the 10, I suggest a witness in 40S&W. It is a CZ-clone, and a good one at that. EAA is not known for the customer service, but recent reports have been better. My two guns are winners.

Once nice thing about the Witness line of guns is the caliber conversion kits. Buy a standard Witness large frame in your desired caliber, and they make uppers for all the others. 9mm, .38 super, 40S&W, 10mm Auto, 45 ACP. At one time they had a 41 AE upper too I think. I have two 10mm and a 38 super barrel that I need to get off my duff and have reamed for 9X25.

A Witness should run you about $400, or double the high point, but it is a much better weapon. And the caliber conversions are about $200, so you are back in the high-point pricing for any future calibers you want. Get the 40S&W and all you will need to go to 10mm is a new barrel, which is about $90.00.

[sargenv]

You could always opt for the Glock with an aftermarket barrel.. they are popular around here at least in the USPSA crowd.. or you could opt for a 610 in either the 3 7/8" or 6.5" tube.. :)

[mecoastie]

Have these been test fired yet?

[BT Sniper]

A couple thousand of the 44 caliber of this same design has been shot and results are very impresive with %90+ retained weight and good accuracy. Have also had similar sucess with 41 caliber bullets from the 9mm as well as 357s from 223 rem brass, but no I have not tried the 40 cal yet. With all the previous success of bullets from brass of this same design I would expect the same great results. I have shipped out a few hundred for testing. We shall see what comes back. A few threads back there was a review of some 44s I had made with positive results and a happy shooter.

[ebg3]

I wonder if you could use lead shot as a core in the 9mm brass for .40 bullets.

[warf73]

Yup sure can another poster done it.

[DukeInFlorida]

I want weight accuracy/consistancy for my resultant bullets. Not sure you would get much bullet to bullet weight accuracy using shot.

Maybe you can test it, weight the results, and report back. Sure would be easier and faster than casting bullets to use as cores.


I wonder if you could use lead shot as a core in the 9mm brass for .40 bullets.

[CWME]

Using birdshot would make one nasty round. I can't imagine the mess that would make in whatever you shot... I can't say I would want to shoot something for the dinner table with that. Guessing the meat loss would be substantial...

However for a 2 legged preditor... Have at it, make all the mess you want.

[ebg3]

I figured it would be easier with shot. The problems I can see are; shot is costly and it may not want to stay in the "jacket". You may have to use larger shot and then you might not get the weight you want. This is all speculation on my part...
EG

[MIBULLETS]

If you use shot, it will work better with a two die set. First seat the shot so it expands to the core seat die, then put it in the point form die. I have made them in the 22 lr jacketed bullets and man are they explosive! Eventhough the lead looks like one piece, as soon as it hits, it all comes apart. I think the smaller the shot the easier it is to get enough lead into the jacket, less air between the shot to squeeze out.

[sargenv]

That sounds like it would make a great frangible for shooting plates at close range. :)

[Dannix]

I been thinking about how you could make frangibles, but in this application, wouldn't jacket be a potential hazard?

I'm really tempted myself, once budget clears and I get myself one of BT's dies, to try damp sawdust or newspaper instead of a cast bootlit and top it with a plastic ball or some wax.


BT, looking at your pics I for the first time noticed you put the cast bootlit in nose down. Any particular reason e.g. nose heavy bullets are more accurate or some such?

[richbug]

I been thinking about how you could make frangibles, but in this application, wouldn't jacket be a potential hazard?

I'm really tempted myself, once budget clears and I get myself one of BT's dies, to try damp sawdust or newspaper instead of a cast bootlit and top it with a plastic ball or some wax.


BT, looking at your pics I for the first time noticed you put the cast bootlit in nose down. Any particular reason e.g. nose heavy bullets are more accurate or some such?


The nose down takes less effort to seat, as it more closely matches the inside of the case.

I made a core seating die out of my Lee powder through expander, I made a solid version of the powder through piece, so I bell with it, then drop in a bullet and mash it .100" into the case. Until I made the solid center the bullet/core would get stuck in the hole and pull back out of the case. While it isn't a perfect tool it should give me a more consistent starting point for when my 101 die gets here.

[sargenv]

When shooting plates at close range, I'm more concerned with a hunk of flattened lead coming back at me than just the relatively light portion of jacket.. and being frangible, with properly maintained steel (ie not parabolic), likely it will go to pieces before bouncing back and causing mayhem.. though the 9mm into 40 cal bullets has a pretty thick base compared to standard jacketed 9mm's which are sometimes FMJ with lead exposed or JHP's with no lead exposed on the base. As soon as I get my die and get things set up, I guess I'll have to do some experimentation.

[ETG]

The nose down takes less effort to seat, as it more closely matches the inside of the case.

I made a core seating die out of my Lee powder through expander, I made a solid version of the powder through piece, so I bell with it, then drop in a bullet and mash it .100" into the case. Until I made the solid center the bullet/core would get stuck in the hole and pull back out of the case. While it isn't a perfect tool it should give me a more consistent starting point for when my 101 die gets here.

Could you possibly post some pics.
Thanks,
Ed

[BT Sniper]

Yep the nose down is becouse it fits the inside of the case better that way requiring less lead to be displaced to make the bullet. THis equals less pressure and ware on your equipment IMO.

That .100 depth is what I shoot for when I do seat the cores with a core seater of various calibers if I intend to make a bullet that the jacket extends to the tip of the bullet. Works about perfect with the CH dies this way.

[BT Sniper]

I have been looking for good deals on 40 cal guns latly and though I would like a carbine the highpoint just dosen't look like it will be avialble anytime soon so I have been looking into available postols in 40 cal. Found a Ruger P-94 almost new for $250 but it was sold out from under me. Probably ment to be I guess as I told a close friend about it and he said to get a witness. Sounded fimilar and a quick glance at this thread reminded me many of you had said the same thing. So another quick search on line and I found one in 40 cal with the wonder coat + extras for $300. Well I jumped on it and waiting for repply. Best thing is it is with in a hour drive so I can be shooting and testing these home made bullets soon. I like the idea of swtiching uppers for different calibers. It said it was a full size pistol so I imagine it will feed any of the other calibers just fine?

Good shooting,

BT

[Daywalker]

I don't understand get a witness? Man it sucks that you lost out on that Ruger P-94. I missed out on a P-89 in 9mm. Them Ruger P models are awsome and hard to beat. My neighbor has the P-90 and the P-89. Those are the sweet to shoot and dang on accurate as well.....

[Dannix]

I've heard lots of bad things about the Witness in 9mm. The 40cal version apparently has none of the problems the 9mm does.

I haven't heard of a single pistol that switches "uppers" well, like a AR10/15 to a different caliber. Those 22LR kits I guess are an exception, depending on the brand, but they are so pricey you may as well just get a 22LR pistol.

Oh, I think I already mentioned, but avoid the Glock 40cals unless you don't mind shoooting factory ammo only, no reloads. The Glock clones (Springfields and the like) don't seem to have this problem. I've been intrigued by the Beretta in 40 (roller-block, if I got that right -- maybe very boolit friendly), but have never gotten interested enough to look into it.

Anyway, hope this helps. :smile:

[Daywalker]

I appologize. I feel kinda dumb now. I had not heard of the Witness firearm. I was thinking along the lines of having someone witness you or something. I do admit, I am still learning whats all out there!!!

[Bwana]

The trouble with going by what you hear or read is that it may or may not be true.
There are pistols that can "switch uppers". My G23 and G32 can do it all day long. They are the same frame and slide just different barrels. My G20 can shoot 10mm and 40S&W and 357SIG, the latter two with aftermarket barrels. My G32 and G23 can shoot 9mm with my aftermarket barrel. Etc, etc, etc.
As far as shooting YOUR handloads in a Glock there will be no problems as long a you don't do a few things: Don't use cases that someone has managed to bulge. Don't use the original Federal 40S&W cases which are headstamped- 40S&W FC. The later good Federal cases are marked FEDERAL 40S&W. Do make sure you have enough neck tension to prevent bullet setback.
My G23 has over 15,000 rnds through it and all of them have been my handloads with over 90% of them being loaded with Lee 175 TC cast bullet. This with the factory barrel. It is my USPSA gun. Never a problem, not one.
As far as "hot" loads go my 40S&W defense loads feature a 155 JHP at 1200fps (over a chrono). No bulges there either.
And since I'm here, the Beretta locking system is a "tilting block" locking system. And it makes no difference in what you feed it

[Dannix]

Yeah, I stand corrected. In between some of the glock family is possible. As for the glock 40cals, well lets leave the argument with the umpteen threads at other forums, but I would at least check the chamber before buying, particularly if its an older sample.

Now that I take the time to google it, it appears to be referred to as "rotating barrel lock". May be something you want to consider.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beretta_Px4_Storm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beretta_8000 (for reference)

FYI. It's recommended you avoid polygonal for shooting lead. So if you want to shoot cast at all, you'll want to consider only models with traditional rifling, or be willing to purchase an aftermarket barrel. Some do shoot lead through their glocks...I'll let you google up on the subject yourself and make your own call. :)


glockfaq (http://www.topglock.com/content.aspx?Ckey=glockfaqs)
Why do Glocks have an unsupported chamber?

First of all "unsupported chamber" is a misleading term: all barrels must support the round in the chamber. Furthermore, all guns that use the modified Browning action have _partially_ supported chambers. In order to make the Glock function reliably with the widest possible selection of ammunition it has a "less supported" chamber than other guns. This is why reloaded ammunition is not recommended in Glock pistols. If you choose to shoot reloads, please consider an after market barrel.


Well there you go BT. Feel free to PM if you have an questions, but dropping it here otherwise. Hope you find yourself a nice 40cal. :) :Fire:

[ETG]

I've heard lots of bad things about the Witness in 9mm. The 40cal version apparently has none of the problems the 9mm does.

I haven't heard of a single pistol that switches "uppers" well, like a AR10/15 to a different caliber. Those 22LR kits I guess are an exception, depending on the brand, but they are so pricey you may as well just get a 22LR pistol.

Oh, I think I already mentioned, but avoid the Glock 40cals unless you don't mind shoooting factory ammo only, no reloads. The Glock clones (Springfields and the like) don't seem to have this problem. I've been intrigued by the Beretta in 40 (roller-block, if I got that right -- maybe very boolit friendly), but have never gotten interested enough to look into it.

Anyway, hope this helps. :smile:

My SIG P239 will swap between 40 and 357 Sig with only a barrel swap - mag, slide and everything else is the same.

[sargenv]

Ok, I tried the all lead shot route with making bullets, and found that the shot compresses into one solid homnogenous mass anyway, and when you add shot to make it fill up better, you are doing nothing more than I'd be doing putting a solid core into the brass, mashing it (swaging it) and then adding maybe 1-4 pellets and re-swaging it to become more consistent with other bullets already swaged. In theory it sounded good, but the act of swaging the shot kind of eliminates the air between the pellets and makes it one piece anyway..

[bjeffv]

This is a whole new area of reloading to me. Very cool and interesting. Gotta ask: What kind of expansion do you get from the used brass jacket bullets?

It must work because the remington HD are a brass jacket, I was just curious.

[BT Sniper]

Expansion. Every bit as good or better then factory. The look of the recovered bullet depends a good deal on what test media you use, softness of your lead core, FPS, and size of the HP. I have recovered everything from no expansion at all to perfect mushrooms depending on the above varriables I mentioned. I got some nice mushroom pics here some where posted.

BT Sniper

[Radio Flyer]

Ok, I tried the all lead shot route with making bullets, and found that the shot compresses into one solid homnogenous mass anyway, and when you add shot to make it fill up better, you are doing nothing more than I'd be doing putting a solid core into the brass, mashing it (swaging it) and then adding maybe 1-4 pellets and re-swaging it to become more consistent with other bullets already swaged. In theory it sounded good, but the act of swaging the shot kind of eliminates the air between the pellets and makes it one piece anyway..

Now drop the “solid” lead core (without jacket) on to a hard floor from 36 inches...

Have a broom handy!

The trick with swaged shot is that it “looks” solid - when the jacket expands and no longer supports the swaged shot the shot will break apart...

It only looks solid, it will not stay that way under force.

[MIBULLETS]

Radio Flyer is right. Shot normally also is coated with graphite I think. This also keeps it from actually sticking together. I have made 22 bullets using rime fire jackets like this and they definatly come apart faster.

[MakeMineA10mm]

One of my next swaging projects is trying copper-plated shot swaged into the core of a jacket so it doesn't "stick" together like plain lead shot does. (BTW, some of it is coated with graphite and some of it is not, depends.)

[b2riesel]

Has anyone tried running these boolits with extractor still on thru a Hornady Bullet Feeder? I don't see why it would cause a problem...but I was still wondering if anyone has given it a shot yet.

[BulletFactory]

Have you tried this with .380 brass? If so, what was the bullet weight?

[b2riesel]

Yes, I have. 115grain 9mm round nose lead inside a 380 brass...comes out to 165 grains for me. They don't shoot as accurate for me as the 188 grain 9mm to 40 that I've come to love...maybe it's my powder choice/charge or the length of the boolit or something...but I'll stick to the 9mm brass with 125grain lead at around 188 grains total.

[BulletFactory]

Thanks.

I havent gotten into swaging yet, but my gun likes the 165 instead of the 180 grain rounds.

.380s are usually a little less sought after than the 9mm, making them easier to find at the range.

[b2riesel]

Yea, The 380's are getting easier to find at the range due to the 380 Body Guard and others selling to the women folks around here pretty heavily. However, if you purchase bulk brass from some online..the 9mm is generally $25/1k...and the 380 is as much as $40/1k.

I bought one of those brass separators...the heavy duty plastic ones that slip on top of a 5 gallon bucket with the slots cut for certain size brass...and they come in a set of three so you can have .45 ACP, .40 S&W, and 9mm all separate with the .22's falling into the bucket. I then purchased the metal insert for the 380 so I didn't mix 380 and 9mm...works great..because sometimes a few of those 380's will sneak into my production line.

I'll probably save up 1k of them and then offer them for a trade to you for some 9mm if you like.

[BulletFactory]

Where do you get brass that cheap? The 1,000 pack of .40 brass is around 400$

[b2riesel]

1,000 once fired 9mm brass for making boolits is about $25 per thousand at many places...I get 40 S&W for $25 a thousand also. Many police ranges sell the once fired brass.

[sargenv]

I generally follow the ppl at my action range who shoot 9 major.. they shoot it once and leave it behind.. since I'm using the brass as a projectile, I do not care one wit that they overpressured the brass as a cartridge.. I get one more use out of brass that someone else paid $30/1000 for..

[DukeInFlorida]

PM me if anyone needs .40 S&W or 9mm brass.
I'm sure we could work some kind of swap deal. I have lots and lots!

The best 9mm brass I have is the MIL WCC headstamped. Wonderful dimension and weight control from pc to pc. Have 1/2 of a 55 gallon barrel left. Going fast.

PM's only, please.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I'm not sure if any are still available, I bought some super cheap 9mm brass, that had a headstamp "DAG" they had a sealed primer with a super tiny flashhole. They were
basically UN-reloadable. the good thing is, I can't imagine the primer blowing off as
they fly down the range. The last batch I bought was $45 for a flat rate box of 3000 shipped, that was about a year ago....I shoulda bought more.
Jon

[Intel6]

I generally follow the ppl at my action range who shoot 9 major.. they shoot it once and leave it behind.. since I'm using the brass as a projectile, I do not care one wit that they overpressured the brass as a cartridge.. I get one more use out of brass that someone else paid $30/1000 for..

I run a 9mm major open gun and that is exactly what I do with my brass. When my buddy (with a 9mm open gun also) and I go out and pratice I pick up all the brass and turn them into bullets.

[b2riesel]

Today I Chrony'd some hot loads and boy was I surprised. I was Shooting my Smith & Wesson M&P 40 cal.... 188 grain jhp's with The BTSniper notch die. Now I don't know how to accurately measure the ogive and I know some people have a more missile like nose on their 9mm to 40 cal boolits than I do...mine I decided on a blockier design with a deeper and wider hollow point...with what I call a medium depth notch....so think of the Hornady XTP depth notch but with the lead extending to the very edge of the brass and making a squarish meplat.

So I load some WCC stamped 40 brass with 5.5grains of Bullseye which I worked up from 4.9 grains...which the Never Exceed listing in a few books was 5.4 grains of Bullseye. At 5.4 grains on a 190 grain jacketed bullet....should be about 955 feet per second or so. However, mine at 5.5 were pushing 1020 fps with rarely more than 1fps deviation after more than 100 rounds down range. My boolits were very consistent in both velocity and accuracy with some silly tight groupings at 50 yards. M&P was fired from a vice..since it isn't my Chrony.

Chrony was set at 15 feet. Conditions were a beautiful 90F with no wind and no clouds.

[BT Sniper]

Awesome!

My go to load as been 5.0 grains of W231. Seemed to run around 950-1000 FPS as I recall. I posted it here somewhere.

Good shooting

BT

[BT Sniper]

Found the link to some load data for the 40cal from 9mm bullets.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=83538

BT

[b2riesel]

It seems the people in that thread may have not been as precise in loading as I am. I weighed and sorted all my brass...used the same headstamp...weighed each boolit...and used the same weight...same head stamp and all with primers....all with the same notch depth and meplat.

I weighed each charge by hand to as exact as I can....all seated to the exact depth...I'm thinking I got a really good seal inside my barrel...I was shooting some really flat trajectories. The boolits don't seem to rise that much after the first 25 yards like some bullets do. I think that this attention to detail plus trimming the meplat so they are all as exact as I can make them....gives my deviation of FPS much lower spread than the data I saw on that link.

Now, when it comes to blasting ammo...I'll use the progressive and pump that stuff out...but for testing data...I'll be really detailed and exact as much as I can.

[BulletFactory]

Isnt the brass too hard on the grooves though?

[sargenv]

Montana Gold uses "cartridge brass" for all of it's jackets... so I'd have to say "Nope".

[BT Sniper]

New die and bullets are ready. Pics will be posted soon!

BT

[Stephen Cohen]

As I have said before, Sir you have tallent. Here in the land of Ausstralia such tallent is frowned upon. Thank god for America.

[BT Sniper]

Thanks

Here is my latest work and 40 cal one step die offer.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=118083

BT

[BT Sniper]

To those of you with this new 40 cal die on order I experienced a delay with the base punches. I took care of the problem and I'll have the base punches this week and expect to ship all 40 cal orders with luck by the end of next week.

Sorry for the delay and thanks for your patience, I'll certainly make your short wait worth your while.

Good Shooting,

BT

[DDriller]

Isnt the brass too hard on the grooves though?

Brass is annealed making it soft.

[OBIII]

Does anybody have, or know of, a chart that details what brass can be used to swage what bullet? If anyone has one, it might make a good sticky for this section.

[DukeInFlorida]

9mm brass, trimmed to .380 auto length, using a 105 grain 380 auto cast bullet as a core, yields a 165 grain .40 bullet.

380 auto brass can also be used directly, per above, but is harder to come by.

A regular 9mm case, with a 124 grain cast core will yield a 187 grain .40 bullet. A bit long and heavy for my liking. I prefer the first version.

-------------------

A .40 s&w case, with a cast 165 grain .40 bullet as a core, will yield a 250 grain .44 magnum bullet. That's a perfect size for .44 mag.

[BT Sniper]

Here is a couple links. Older posts and have since probably added severial more to the list but it should be a good start. Don't forget....anything is possible!

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=60307

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=46614

[PhilOhio]

Hi guys,

I've been sporadically following the site for a few years, and stumbled across this thread while trying to find .40 jackets. I've been swaging for about 30 years, but never .40 caliber. It seems the people who make them have got things cornered and have priced me out of the market. But I have a ton of empty 9mm cases, a small lathe, milling machine, and I like to be creative...and learn...per BT Sniper's signature line.

So after absorbing these threads, I prevailed upon him to sell me his one-step setup, coming in a couple weeks. Meantime, I couldn't wait, so I made myself a core seat die and, today, a point forming die...still being refined.

What precipitated this exercise was the ordering of a brand new EAA (Tanfoglio) Witness in 10mm, after researching all the alternatives. I'm totally pleased with it, and see it will need an LPA adjustable rear sight, to bring out its accuracy potential.

But I want velocity, or else, why have a 10mm? That means jacketed boolits.

For those of you shooting these in .40 S&W, it's probably overkill. Up to at least 1150 FPS, you don't need to worry about leading, as long as you use wheel weights or Lyman #2 alloy and use a good lube. Anything with Alox equivalent in it will safely get you well above 1150. But I want 1300 even without Alox, so I need jackets and controlled expansion.

This is a work in progress, but I thought I'd offer a couple suggestions/observations, vis a vis what I have learned so far.

(1) There is a length/sectional density limitation with the 9mm/40 jacket. To seat the bullet within maximum overall length limits, you have to either go with a low powder charge or compress it, which I avoid. So you need to trim off the 9mm rim and groove part. The easiest way is with a 3-jaw Jacobs chuck on a 6" bench top lathe. Do it before annealing, when the brass if moderately hard, to avoid distortion when clamping. Eyeball it with your cutter to take all of the groove. That should leave anough brass in the base. Don't worry about anything left of the primer pocket. And you can do this with a Harbor Freight saw, drill press chuck, or anything similar. Just so it's fast and easy.

(2) In making the point forming part of the one-step, or any point forming die for this setup, go for a radius that allows the case mouth to roll over. We need to shorten the OAL as much as possible, to keep sectional density up and OAL down. That's to maximumize powder capacity. There's no point (no pun intended) in having a beautiful jacketed boolit that can only be driven at 800 FPS. You can also trim or cut the mouth, to shorten OAL.

(3) My advice is to not waste these fine boolits on low velocity loads, below 1000 FPS. These are serious, high performance boolits. Conserve them and make them carefully.

(4) This project is about economy. I've found that good 'ol auto parts store STP is a great lube for case sizing and bullet swaging. Smear it on an old fashioned stamp pad, if you can find one, and roll your cases/jackets on that. But of course, don't overdo it, or you will get wrinkles. One plastic bottle of STP will last a lifetime.

(5) Hollow points and jacket tip scoring look neat, but they are completely unnecessary if you can make this bullet as short as possible, to keep powder charge up, without exceeding overall length or compressing powder. Keep it short and fast. Forget about pretty. And shorter means better sectional density, retained velocity, and flatter trajectory. With a fast .40, you don't have to give a second's thought to scored jackets or hollow points. That thing is opening up right now, no matter what.

(6) Seven degrees seems to be a good compromise angle for the nose, if you use a truncated cone configuration. That's close to what seems to be used for most SWC boolits. I tried 10 degrees, and it didn't put quite enough lead out front. And these bullets need to be seated right out to the maximum OAL limit; again, because of powder capacity. We need all the design help we can get, to use 9mm hulls for .40 S&W. Seven degree noses will feed fine in most contemporary semiautos, including my Tanfoglio and 3rd generation Smiths. Five degrees might be pushing it, for feed reliability. That starts looking like a revolver wad cutter.

(7) As finances permit, consider investing in a couple basic adjustable core molds. They make life much easier. I have three of these, four cavities each, to cast core diameters of 1/4", 5/16", and 3/16". These cover boolits of about any weight in .22 to .45. You can tailor the boolit to whatever you want, without worrying about trimming and fiddling with whatever some commercial mold drops, and maybe adding little pieces of lead. And then there are core swaging dies, if we want to get really fanatical on accuracy. For this exercise they are not necessary. I don't want to scare anybody away. It can be an expensive, slippery slope. I surrendered long ago.

It's all about fun, and it looks like everybody here is having it. :) And I've enjoyed reading all your posts and and pictures on this subject.

[PhilOhio]

The mailman brought my 9mm/.40 One Step die from BT Sniper this noon, and I quickly made up some boolits for testing tomorrow, as I had 100+ cores seated in annealed 9mm cases. I learned a lot in 1/2 day, and can offer some suggestions.

On a hunch, I took a look at my CH4D .45 ACP blank loading die set and discovered a most amazing thing. Their 6-point star crimp is formed by a hardened sliding piece which fits inside a die body. The star piece is exactly the same diameter, .560", as what Lee uses to flare the case in their .40 S&W powder drop die.

So to make your own boolit nose scoring die, all you have to do is temporarily replace the Lee mouth flaring piece with this star piece (which you can probably buy separately from CH4D), make and insert a .560" x 3/4" aluminum or steel spacer behind it, screw in the top piece, and you have your boolit nose scoring die. Then the method is:

(1) Insert your annealed case in a standard 9mm shell holder, with lead 120 gr. bullet fully inserted nose down, and adjust the nose scoring die to close the crimp about 1/2 way.

(2) Finish the boolit the usual way, in your BT Sniper One Step die.

I did the whole thing slightly different from BT's one-step method because I wanted a slightly different result. I'm only using these boolits with maximum 10mm loads, where velocity is such that hollow pointing is irrelevant. So I made a flat nosed ejector punch for his die, which gives me no hollow point. And I'm a believer in seating cores first, although yes, you can probably get by without it. So I made a core seating die. If you don't roll your own, I recommend you buy one from BT. So here's how I then make the boolit.

(1) I anneal the 9mm cases, but don't saw off or lathe cut the rims at this point.

(2) Use a conventional core seating die to fully upset the core and bring OD up to .400". Rim is still on.

(3) Using a 9mm shell holder, to hold the half formed boolit, and the scoring die described above, I apply a 1/2 crimp to the nose.

(4) Using BT's die, I form the bullet with a flat nose.

(5) I chuck each almost finished bullet in a 3-jaw Jacobs chuck on my 6" bench top lathe and, using a 1/32" cuttoff cutter I made, I remove the rim, leaving no groove. You can tighten the chuck firmly enough that the boolit will not slip and will not be defaced, if your cutter is sharp, correcty positioned, and you are slow and steady with the feed. It takes about 15 seconds.

The rims really have to come off, or you have little room for powder in even a big 10mm case. With rims removed, the bullet is just under .600" high and weighs about 165 grains. Then there is just enough room for 8 grains of Unique which, with a 180 gr. boolit, is a maximum 10mm load for that powder and yields about 1150 FPS. Pretty respectable. I'm hoping to do a bit better than that, using other powders and possible a lighter core and trimmed case, giving shorter OAL.

For those who don't have the CH4D .45 ACP blank die, you really need to get one. (Or buy just the star piece.) You can have a lot of fun with it. The star piece is self centering. So I use the die to star crimp everything from .223 blanks (shooting golf balls half way across a small lake) to .45 ACP, for a Thompson. And I just found a new use for the die.

Yes, I know, getting anything from CH4D takes time. But it is usually worth it.

And thanks much, BT. It's a nice die. Separate PM coming to you.

[BT Sniper]

Your welcome and thanks for the compliments. It sounds like you have things all figured out. Let me know if you need any help. Do keep us posted with your results.

Only thing I would suggest is that with core seat dies you should look for a diameter slightly smaller then final bullet diameter. Anything from .0005 to .005 just so long as it is slightly smaller then final bullet diameter.

Good shooting and Swage On!

BT

[OBIII]

BT,
Thanks for the links. I will add them to my accumulation.
OB

[SSGOldfart]

Now lets see if I can post a video or at least a link to it.

Good shooting,

BT Sniper

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/th_P1020390.jpg (http://s636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/?action=view&current=P1020390.flv)

WOW this might work. We shall see.

http://s636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/?action=view&current=P1020390.flv


what happened to the video???????????????????????????/

[BT Sniper]

http://s636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/?action=view&current=P1020390.mp4&mediafilter=videos

Here is the link.

Don't know what happened to the original video link.

BT

[khamill2000]

Works now

[SSGOldfart]

thank you Khamill it's hard to belive swagging a bullet is that easy,but I guess it is

[BT Sniper]

Cool. Glad the video is working again.


It really isn't difficult. I have said it many times about how I thought it took fancy high dollor machines and a bit of magic to make quality bullets. Well..... Ask anyone of the first time swagers with a set of my dies or my improved CH version dies..... It is just that easy and you, like myself, may feel a bit like a magician :)

BT

[Whistler]

BT Sniper: I have tried to place an order for your dies via e-mail. Please check your spam filters. My adress is the_whistler (a) hell.as

[BT Sniper]

I'm behind on my emails and PMs. At the moment I am on family vacation and will return home on the 25th. I will check to make sure I got your emial and return everyone's inquires as soon as I can.

I do recall your email with the sweden address. When I get home I plan on making several of my 40 cal one step dies to have ready for Christmas delivery or sooner. Probably make like 20 or more dies. At the moment I am sold out of the 40 cal one step but like I said I expect to have some ready to ship and to everyone's door by Christmas.

Thanks

BT

[SSGOldfart]

well my order has already been PM'd. just waiting your answer.

[Outch]

[QUOTE=BT Sniper;1434519]I'm behind on my emails and PMs. At the moment I am on family vacation and will return home on the 25th. I will check to make sure I got your emial and return everyone's inquires as soon as I can.

This is good news, a set for Christmas would be great.

[dwebb210]

BT Sniper - I am fascinated by the concept, and want to give it a try.

I have boxes of brass fired from my 9mm Glock that I know shouldn't be reloaded due
to the unsupported chamber. Using the brass for 10mm bullet jackets sounds awesome.

I got confused when I was trying to read through your posts.
What do I need to order from you to make the 5-notch JHP as well as
the regular non-notched JHP you have made and posted in photographs?

I saw this photo and was impressed:

http://www.realworldpracticalshooters.com/ar15/40from9.jpg


Thanks!

[Reload3006]

Awesome...

Can't wait to see how accuracy is.

Just to clarify, I would order the 101400HP from http://www.ch4d.com/catalog/?p=85 to get the bullets you made above? And that includes everything that I would need?

Also, would you recommend getting the hollow point or soft nose dies?

get both when I first started looking into swaging I emailed CH4D and asked that very question. You can buy both punches and change them out .. I don't remember the cost but it was not very much more.

[Swageocast]

deweb210,,,

What Megapixal is your camera???

Thanks Swageocast

[BT Sniper]

Those pics where taken by Jon Black. Awesome pics for sure. He is a member here and other shooting forums. Not sure what is handle is at the moment. I think I may consider approaching him to take some pics for web page when I get around to it.

BT

[mouldmate]

complimenti, un lavoro eccezionale!!

[DukeInFlorida]

Translation for those of you in Yorba Linda:

Congratulations, a great job!


complimenti, un lavoro eccezionale!!

[BT Sniper]

Made a few bullets this evening in preperation for doing some shooting with both the 40S&W and the upcoming 40-308 riffle of mine.

I allready had the cores seated and notched, they have been in a gallon zip lock bag lubed for more then a year now. Figured I better put them together. Must be about 4-600 of them there. took me a little over an hour and less then two. Still just as easy as it was when this thread was started and teh results are probably even better. These where formed in a CH die with my Heavy Duty internials and the standard long nose ogive with the .250 meplat.

I still have plenty of dies available.

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/P1070346.jpg


Good shooting

BT

[DDriller]

Some of my first batch of 40's, a lot easier than expected. Brian's dies work great!

http://i890.photobucket.com/albums/ac110/RFuhr/IMG_0236.jpg

[BT Sniper]

YEP! Those look Perfect! Nice Job! I have been trying to tell everyone just how easy that 40 cal bullet from 9mm brass is to make.

More good news...... the reamer for the .458 is completed and being shipped to me. You can expect to make some .458s soon too :)

Nice work. Good shooting and Swage On!

BT

[Fla9-40]

What are you guys getting on the final weight of these 40's?
I don't have my dies yet, but I was messing around today and was going to try and anneal some of my 9's with the lead pressed down in the brass. I am using Lee Mold 358-125-2r for the lead cast and I'm getting a range of 189 to 194 (brass and lead) and was wondering what everyone else is getting?


Added Later: My bad I see Brian posted on the very first message he also was getting 190gr :roll:

[DukeInFlorida]

I prefer 165 grain bullets for my .40 S&W.

I use a 93 grain cast bullet from a .380 auto, and stuff that into a trimmed down 9mm case (trimmed to the same length as a 380 auto case). That gives me 165 grains.

I recently bought a multi cavity mold for 380 auto that produces a 100 grain round nose. That has increased the weight to 172 grains. But still fine!

If you used a 115 grain 9mm boolit as the core, and an un trimmed 9mm jacket, you'd be a bit more than that.

So, it sort of depends on what you want as a result.

[Fla9-40]

Duke that's more of what I'm shooting for is around 165gr, I really don't like that heavy (190) for .40's. Maybe I need to get me another mold and go that route.

Thanks for the info, just what I was looking for!

[BT Sniper]

Since we've had a few updates, I'd like to clarify my order request.

I'd like:
--------------------------------
1 x 200gr WFN mould
1 x long pin (190gr HP)
--------------------------------
$156 shipped

Thanks again, Oreo!


I'm confused?????? What do you want?

BT

[nickE10mm]

I'm confused?????? What do you want?

BT

Sorry! I posted in the wrong thread. My bad. :oops:

[Whistler]

This is what mine do at 25 meters (27 yards).

10mm Auto
Winchester brass
11.8gn Norma R-123
Shot from a Glock 21 with IGB aftermarket barrel

108gn WW core
G.F.L 9mm cases for jacket (not trimmed)
Bullet length is .664"

Shot one handed in a standing position (doesn't look like that all the time...).

http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/7004/20120731174933.jpg

[BT Sniper]

Awesome! Must be about a 170 grain bullet. Formed in my BTSniper custom dies.

I love to see target pics! Glad to see they are shooting well for you. How do they compare to factory rounds as far as accuracy? That group looks to be under 2" at 25 yrds "off hand" that is great shooting in my book!

Good shooting and Swage On!

BT

[Whistler]

Yes, the bullets weigh 170.1 to 170.6gn, though I have the occasional problem with some going down to 166gn or up to 172gn. As far as I can tell it is the brass in itself that vary.

I have never fired factory 10mm, it is impossible to get a hold of in Sweden. I have not yet reached the accuracy of my old load with 12.0gn R-123 and a 176gn lead TC, but the lead bullet leaded some and was hard to clean. Maybe the jacketed bullets will break the barrel in. :)

The inner ten circle on the target is one inch, the outer ten circle is two inches.

[DDriller]

I wish we could get R123 in the USA.

[Whistler]

I wish we could get it in Sweden (Norma is Swedish). It is not made anymore, the few cans I've got left were made in 1993 that I got overpriced from a store selling out. (Yes, the "sold out" overpriced)

[Fla9-40]

This is what is on the menu tomorrow!
These obviously are from BT's 40 from 9's dies.
I trimmed the brass to .380 length and dropped a 105gr cast bullet in it.
They all weight 163gr ±
They measure .400 and length is .631
Will come back with some target pics tomorrow! :-D

(Sorry about the pics, taken with my phone!)

[BT Sniper]

Those look perfect! Couldn't have done better myself!

Good pics for a cell phone.

Good shooting!

BT

[DukeInFlorida]

Your method is exactly what I do, and I get the exact same result.
All of my .40's are 165 grains (factory jacketed, cast, etc)

And, I load them to give me same point of aim. That way, I always know where the projectiles will go, no matter which ammo I take to the range with me.

They look great!

PS: I am finding that pure lead or range lead cores allow the brass to expand better than using ww or harder alloy lead.
Most of the time, I can get away without doing any annealing, and still hit the diameter.


This is what is on the menu tomorrow!
These obviously are from BT's 40 from 9's dies.
I trimmed the brass to .380 length and dropped a 105gr cast bullet in it.
They all weight 163gr ±
They measure .400 and length is .631
Will come back with some target pics tomorrow! :-D

(Sorry about the pics, taken with my phone!)

[BT Sniper]

Great Shooting!

If I had my way everyone would shoot 40s/10mms and make their own bullets from scrap 9mm brass.

I'm sure it was a great feeling shooting your own bullets! They certainly look great. I would certainly love to see what they doo in the balisitic gel. Be sure to take some pics of that if you shoot some.

I bet you will get some bullets that look like this :)

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/P1060064.jpg

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/P1060065.jpg

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/P1060066.jpg

Good shooting and Swage On!

Thanks for your support.

BT

[Fla9-40]

BT I started not to post the pics, because it did not do the loads any justice. Like I said it had been months since I had shot the Stoeger and I had to learn the sites all over again!

Have you ever thought about making the notching die make a twist on the notches similar to these

http://www.natchezss.com/images/products/RT29440.jpg

The others are fine just wondering if you have kicked it around or not

[DukeInFlorida]

The twist in those bullets is made by notching the regular way first, and then while withdrawing the notch punch, you grab ahold of the base of the bullet, and rotate. If you can figure out how to rotate the bullet, good luck to you.

Or, the other way is a VERY EXPENSIVE machined notch punch.

I see the Golden saber as being just a gimmick, and not worth a lot of thought.

[Fla9-40]

Just thought it would look cool.....

BT Sniper sent you a EMAIL be watching out for it. My PM is getting full and I need to clean it out! =)

[Fla9-40]

Here are some BT's 165gr ±4gr 40cal from 9mm after they hit a steel plate: SWEEEEET!!!

47245

47246

[DukeInFlorida]

Did you do any thing special, like bond the cores to the jackets?
They look great!


Here are some BT's 165gr ±4gr 40cal from 9mm after they hit a steel plate: SWEEEEET!!!

47245

47246

[BT Sniper]

Cool!

Loaded round looks great too!

Swage On!

[Fla9-40]

Did you do any thing special, like bond the cores to the jackets?
They look great!

Duke no I did not bond them, but want to try some bonded. Do people use solder paste to do this?

[DukeInFlorida]

Looking at the way the jacket opened against steel, there's no need to bond any (in my humble opinion)

[MIBULLETS]

Bonding does make the bullet expand more, it slows expansion down and retains lead to the jacket. Those don't look like there is any lead left in them.

[DukeInFlorida]

Dude, they hit STEEL!

They wouldn't have split all the way to the base like that unless there was lead pulling the jacket into the steel. I'd say that just the swaging made a great connection between the jacket and the core.

[Nix]

I just can't get over the expansion you're getting in those, excellent work. I've shot thousands of jacketed HPs and had people bring me hundreds of examples of what they consider to be the 'perfect expansion' and I have to say, what you folks are getting here is at the very least comparable if not superior in some cases.

It never ceases to amaze me the kind of quality the caster/swager can achieve for pennies on the dollar for what factory-ammo costs (and I sell factory ammo!). I would say reloading gear makes up maybe 15% of my gross sales, casting maybe 5% and thats with me pushing both; if only people took the time to educate themselves...

What kind of die are you using to cut the tips of those bullets? I just placed my order for a Blackmon kit for rimfire-to-.224 and I'm already looking in to adding dies for .38 Special/.357 Magnum as well as .45ACP. I'd really like to get the result you've got going on there with the pre-cut HP's.

[Fla9-40]

Nix check out BT Sniper dies here:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=117577

[tbj555]

Hey BT would I need to send my dies back to you if I want to make bb tips or can I just buy the extra insert for the dies both 45 and 40

[a.squibload]

Here are some BT's 165gr ±4gr 40cal from 9mm after they hit a steel plate: SWEEEEET!!!


This is the only one I found yesterday, it hit a 3/8" mild steel target:

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-vnYQHZmm2nQ/UKs2yukwwlI/AAAAAAAAAf4/-9mQkoND2s8/s640/splat%2520cam.JPG

Weight retention was not so good!

[BT Sniper]

Hey BT would I need to send my dies back to you if I want to make bb tips or can I just buy the extra insert for the dies both 45 and 40

Sorry I missed this one. Send me a PM reminder before end of month. I should be able to supply you what you need without your dies in hand.

BT

[just bill]

After through investigation I am going to enter the world of swaging. However I have a couple questions about dies for 40 S&W/ 10mm.
I understand the "all in one" die for using 9mm brass, but if I want to use copper tubing do I need a two die set or can I just use the all in one and the copper tubing jacket die? The second is what is the best way to keep copper jacketed bullets kinda in the same weight. I want to make jhp of different weights, but I want to try to keep them as consistent as I can, but I am not looking for bench rest accuracy. The 9mm all in one is a really sweet set up but I just want to try to save a little where I can cause the ss check can go so far. I plan to make the cores with the core mold.

[308Man]

Awesome idea

[Del-Ray]

A couple more weeks! I cam barely wait! Giggidy!

[Cane_man]

if i wanted to swage the case/core into an hollow point bullet, what part numbers would i need from ch4d 101 parts:

http://static.ch4d.com/media/images/catalog/101-parts.gif


edit: never mind, looks like they don't offer this anymore and i will look into making my own die

[newcastter]

It was a pleasant surprise when I recieved my dies in the mail yesterday, gotta say I really like the smell of the nitrate process..now I have to get set up and start making some bullets.
Thanks BT.

[BT Sniper]

Your welcome!

Good shooting and swage on!

BT

[anotherred]

I recently made a discovery that seemed to make the things go easier and bullets turn out better. SOFT LEAD. I've been using BTs 9 to 40 with range scrap and/or wheel weights. I got my hands on a score of soft lead and the bullets have been much easier to form the nose, and with better results. I used to get maybe 10% with a wrinkles in them, now 100% what I call "perfect" bullets. These wrinkles didn't affect anything but now ALL the bullets look perfect. If this has been mentioned before using soft lead I missed it, but hopefully this will help others on this adventure!! Off to swage some more!

[BT Sniper]

Yep! Soft lead is almost always better on all accounts.

Good shooting!

BT

[newcastter]

Ok, well I finally got around to making my 40 cal jacketed hollow points from 9mm brass. Now I have been waiting to make them as I wanted to make sure I had all the right materials and tools to make quality projectiles. I have to say I am making some quality bullets but I have a few questions. 1st. In the instructions it refers to the amount of force on press no more than Full Length sizing? Well I have to say I have to use quite a bit more force than that in fact the handle will flex a bit from time to time on my Lee Classic Cast. Also on the upstroke I have to RAM it up in order for a 1 stroke ejection or if I use less force its like I am hammering the bullet out with the auto eject. 2nd there is some markings around the ogive sort of like a ring around the bullet after point forming. Is this normal? Am I just supposed to remove this in the final polish/tumbling process? Lastly what is the best recommended final polishing media and in what type of tumbler? I use the SS pins in a rock tumbler to clean the annealed brass and that works great but not as good on final cleaning, infact it dulls the shiny finish of the freshley squished lead hollow point. I will try to post some pics soon, dont get me wrong I am making some A1 projectiles I just need to figure a few things out.

[clodhopper]

Are you useing any lube?

[newcastter]

Yes, please understand that I am experienced in swaging so the no brainers I am sure I am doing correctly. I am also using pure soft lead as well before I get asked that next. I am really looking for the answer to the question is that normal? I see guys having upgraded handles and modifying press for leverage. Maybe that's what I need to do I am just not sure.

[sargenv]

I bought the swage ram for my Rock Chucker and I can crank along nicely about 23 bullets per minute when I'm serious about swaging.. This is with the ejector installed.. The Lee is sort of minimal for the job IMO.. the press that seems like it would have lots of leverage is an old Herters that I have but at the moment I use it for sizing bullets the "lee" way out in the casting shed..

[newcastter]

The press is handleing it just fine, nevermind thanks for the responses but they are not in line with any of my questions. Brian has been in contact with me I will get these wrinkles ironed out. In the mean time I will post some pictures of my finished product, they look good.

[wrongway]

Being in the dark for years what does this type of bullet do to the pressures

[monmouth]

If anyone needs 9mm brass in bulk, please let me know. I can price it right for swagers:D

[Del-Ray]

Being in the dark for years what does this type of bullet do to the pressures
They should be the same as an equivalent weight hollow point jacketed bullet.

I got both his 44 and 40 dies months ago. I've only made a bunch of the 44s up. They shoot great. I going to make some 40s no that I just found a glock 23 gen4 EXO. These will be my carry bullet. I'll post progress pics.

Though I've already annealed the brass, and its soaking in citric acid right now.

[Del-Ray]

Alright, went shooting and retreived some nice samples from the dirt. Pretty nice mushrooming. I'll post the pics along with some before shots later today or tomorrow.

[BT Sniper]

Took some new pics today. I'm really trying to simplify the process to the most basic of tasks. I really believe this is by far the easiest and cheapest bullet to both make and shoot.

Here is a look at the tools with the point form die, universal expanding die and mandrel, and BTX notch die. With these three dies you are able to make perfect XTP copy bullets. The labels you see in the pics is the same labels customers will see on their dies when they receive them. The samples of each step of the process you see here is also the exact same samples the customer receives with their purchase. The process couldn't be easier in my opinion to turn scrap 9mm brass into perfect 182 grain JHP bullets. Here you go....

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/063_zps0c345f80.jpg (http://s636.photobucket.com/user/BTSniper/media/063_zps0c345f80.jpg.html)


Here is a look at the 4 basic steps required.

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/064_zps539818c5.jpg (http://s636.photobucket.com/user/BTSniper/media/064_zps539818c5.jpg.html)


http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/067_zps762b1348.jpg (http://s636.photobucket.com/user/BTSniper/media/067_zps762b1348.jpg.html)

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/074_zps8b962ea7.jpg (http://s636.photobucket.com/user/BTSniper/media/074_zps8b962ea7.jpg.html)

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/070_zps7fca493a.jpg (http://s636.photobucket.com/user/BTSniper/media/070_zps7fca493a.jpg.html)

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/072_zps406de80d.jpg (http://s636.photobucket.com/user/BTSniper/media/072_zps406de80d.jpg.html)


So 4 easy steps to perfection but for truly 1 step operation try a RCE 40 cal quality commercial jacket drop a 158 grian (IIRC, might have been the 148?) cast boolit core and swage in one step in the point form die for perfect bullets too! I'll have pics of these bullets soon too.

If I had my way everyone would be shooting a 40 or 10MM using scrap 9mm brass for jackets. Certainly is a pretty easy bullet to make the results on target are pretty impressive too!

Good shooting and swage on!

Brian

[badbob454]

anyone have the web address for c&h dies , i want to make some 40 cal ? never swaged before ...

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

CH4d
http://www.ch4d.com/

You might want to call them...
read this thread if you haven't already.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?265607-CH4D-dies

[badbob454]

thanks, JonB..... ill give em a call .

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

Do the CH dies allow for hollow pointing?

[BT Sniper]

Yes.... but only with a exposed lead tip. Unless CH has changed their designs you can only make lead tip bullets with their dies.

BT

[Short Range]

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/074_zps8b962ea7.jpg (http://s636.photobucket.com/user/BTSniper/media/074_zps8b962ea7.jpg.html)



I have looked at the pictures posted above many times, but the old brain cells just locked in on the mention of using a core seat die and base punch or universal die with mandrel in step 2. What is the advantage of using the core seat die? Does it seat the core and expand the case to just under finish size to make point forming easier and more consistent?

[tiger762]

Yes, exactly. It swells out the jacket to finished diameter and in doing so, when you let off the pressure, the jacket springs back a little bit now you have the jacket tightly grabbing the core. So it's for two reasons. If one were to just put the core in the jacket and point form and call it a day, the diameter would be all over the map and the core would be loose as heck.


What is the advantage of using the core seat die? Does it seat the core and expand the case to just under finish size to make point forming easier and more consistent?

[BT Sniper]

Yes, exactly. It swells out the jacket to finished diameter and in doing so, when you let off the pressure, the jacket springs back a little bit now you have the jacket tightly grabbing the core. So it's for two reasons. If one were to just put the core in the jacket and point form and call it a day, the diameter would be all over the map and the core would be loose as heck.

First statement is correct but the second may require a bit more elaboration. Are you using brass or commercial jackets? Are you using CH dies or BTSniper 40 cal one step?

Yes, the core seat die does a lot of the work, it swells the jacket to nearly final diameter so all the point form die has to do is form the point.

Now as far as simply dropping a core in the jacket and point forming I can tell you that it does hold on to the core every bit the same and the diameter of the bullet will be exactly the same every time!


There is nothing loose about this core and jacket formed in my Improved CH Heavy Duty one step die.

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/P1070433.jpg (http://s636.photobucket.com/user/BTSniper/media/P1070433.jpg.html)

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/crosscut429.jpg (http://s636.photobucket.com/user/BTSniper/media/crosscut429.jpg.html)



Here is another sectioned view, as you can see absolutely no voids or air pockets, lead as even bled into the flash hole of the case. You can actually see a single grain of walnut media in the lower left of the case that I missed and got swaged in there.
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/2011-1-26006.jpg (http://s636.photobucket.com/user/BTSniper/media/2011-1-26006.jpg.html)


and certainly nothing loos about the recovered combination of jacket still holding on to the core in these BTSniper formed bullets recovered from wet newspaper. You would not have found these in one piece if the core was in anyway loose in side the jacket.

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/P1060064.jpg (http://s636.photobucket.com/user/BTSniper/media/P1060064.jpg.html)

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/P1060065.jpg (http://s636.photobucket.com/user/BTSniper/media/P1060065.jpg.html)

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/P1060066.jpg (http://s636.photobucket.com/user/BTSniper/media/P1060066.jpg.html)

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/40buldge028.jpg (http://s636.photobucket.com/user/BTSniper/media/40buldge028.jpg.html)


Granted using a core seat die first is always going to be a good choice but there is certainly nothing wrong with the results from a good quality put together one step 40 cal die!

Good shooting and swage on!

BT

[Short Range]

First statement is correct but the second may require a bit more elaboration. Are you using brass or commercial jackets? Are you using CH dies or BTSniper 40 cal one step?



Thank You tiger762 and BT Sniper for the replies.

I am on the bottom end of the learning curve when it comes to swaging and have been doing a lot of reading in the old posts on the swaging section of the forums trying to learn what I can to make the end product better/easier.

Seems like I read somewhere that it is better to have the point forming die just expanding the bullet the last couple of thousands while forming the point. I have been playing with an expanding mandrel, but quickly learned that there is no way to expand 9mm brass consistently with the large variance of internal profiles. Then when I reread the instructions for step 2 in the pictures the brain cells picked up on the use of a core seat die and got me wondering if there would be some advantage to doing the extra step. If it would expand the brass out and make the finished bullet more consistent/uniform, more accurate, make the point forming die last longer, etc. then I think that would be a good way to go. If the only gain is making more work of the project, then doing the 1 step would be better.

Will be using 9mm range pickup brass and the BTSniper one step dies,,,,,,,when they are done :smile:.

Thanks again.

[Utah Shooter]

Yes.... but only with a exposed lead tip. Unless CH has changed their designs you can only make lead tip bullets with their dies.

BT

Not true and you know it. Sure the 105 series is made for a half jacket but the 101 series you can make them hollow point without a lead tip.

[ncbearman]

anyone have the web address for c&h dies , i want to make some 40 cal ? never swaged before ...

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?267881-CH4D-is-taking-orders-for-a-new-run-of-their-101-swage-dies!!!

[BT Sniper]

Not true and you know it. Sure the 105 series is made for a half jacket but the 101 series you can make them hollow point without a lead tip.

With the stock core seat base punch they "used to" provide (not sure what may have changed) it was impossible to seat the core inside the jacket with the core seat die. Yes I know how to make Jhp bullets with no lead exposed using CH dies but it required a specific core seat punch. Are you telling us we can now seat the core inside the jacket with no exposed lead using the 101 die as shipped? Has ch changed the design of their core seat base punches?

[BT Sniper]

Maybe I read it wrong.......or we may be confused. Yes I see the lead tip bullets with the hollow point, I know that is possible, so is a flat point bullet with a lead tip. I'm talking about making bullets with no exposed lead on the ogive of the bullet, like a xtp without the notches.

[ncbearman]

Maybe I read it wrong.......or we may be confused. Yes I see the lead tip bullets with the hollow point, I know that is possible, so is a flat point bullet with a lead tip. I'm talking about making bullets with no exposed lead on the ogive of the bullet, like a xtp without the notches.

Brian,
I got my 45 set in. I will try it tonight and let you know. I think it can be done now. I will have to reduce the size of my core and maybe lengthen the case/jacket.

[ncbearman]

For what its worth swaging info from a newb with the #101 CH4D .45 set with a full jacket hollow point. The core seated inside the .40 case/jacket. First I spent most of the day figuring out and understanding what is going on inside those dies when I pull that lever down (newb). Always lubing every time I ran a case up in there. This is where I am at now. I trim .40cal case to .760 de-burred then annealed until that sucker was bright red. I pour my cores to a length of .495 using soft/range lead. I am not using the core seat punch....:veryconfu In fact this is where I may need some wisdom and knowledge from those of you that have been doing this longer than me (which would be all of you) :shock: As you can see my core is almost the same length as my jacket/case. I saw no benefit even using the core seat punch. Now when I build an exposed tip, yes I could see it then. But for the full jacket I decided to bypass that step. So I then ran my HP die down until it crushed the jacket somewhat and then backed it off. Then I ran the jacket with the core in it all the way up and ran my HP punch down until it contacted the core. At this point I kept adjusting down until the the core completely swaged the jacket to the .451 finished od. There is a bearing surface of .310 and the boolit weighs right at 230gr

Below are some pics I took. Please, please let me have it. I want to hear any and all comments/suggestions. I didn't "clean" these jackets but now that I know where I am and once you guys agree I am on the right path I will do a batch thoroughly and load em' up and head down to the backside and see how they do. Thanks.

130930 130931 130932

[Short Range]

Been making 40's from 9mm brass for less than a week and I am like a kid at Christmas time :grin:

132539

Got the Lee turret set up for doing case prep work. One die for case expansion, one to seat the core and the last is the BTX notch die. Doesn't take long to get a pile of parts ready for swaging. Some day it will be set up on a progressive press to cut down on the amount of handle strokes.

132542

Made over 1k of these already. My new 'plinking' round :Fire:. I machined down a 124 grain Lee mold and it now drops a 112.5 grain core. That is making a 170 grain bullet that is .650 long. Prefer them over the heavier bullets that are .700 long that I was getting with the 120 grain core.

132540

Made these with the teeth using the CH4D die. They just look mean :evil:.

132541

Starting to play with frangible rounds. A modified CH4D core seat die, some 7-1/2 shot and the airsoft BB's. Don't have any pictures of assembled rounds cause they all got shot up already :lol:.

[tiger762]

That is excellent!!!!!

[Utah Shooter]

With the stock core seat base punch they "used to" provide (not sure what may have changed) it was impossible to seat the core inside the jacket with the core seat die. Yes I know how to make Jhp bullets with no lead exposed using CH dies but it required a specific core seat punch. Are you telling us we can now seat the core inside the jacket with no exposed lead using the 101 die as shipped? Has ch changed the design of their core seat base punches?
Could have swore we were talking about the dies themselves. "Can I get you to please ship a 9mm seat punch with those .40 cal dies please Amanda?" So yes you can order them to make a non lead exposed hollow point tip straight from the factory. I mean common how hard is it to get another punch from the manufacturer?

You were making it look like their dies could not make a complete jacketed hollow point. We all know your whole business started from upgrading internals on CH4D Dies! Anything your dies can do theirs can do.

[tiger762]

I'm going to try a Lee 9mm sizer punch with the 38cal #101, to be able to use a longer jacket and have less exposed lead. Would require a stepped punch to seat inside the jacket. Shrugs. Just want a little bit less lead so the sizer punch should work fine.

[Short Range]

I'm going to try a Lee 9mm sizer punch with the 38cal #101, to be able to use a longer jacket and have less exposed lead. Would require a stepped punch to seat inside the jacket. Shrugs. Just want a little bit less lead so the sizer punch should work fine.

Is this what you are thinking of for the core seat die?
132698

[Walkstep]

Here's a video showing expanding, core seating, and notching on a Dillon progressive using BTSniper's die set. I'll post the point forming step on a Corbin CHP Hydro next.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-NdtGHwRWU

[BT Sniper]

Excellent set up with the Dillon progressive. Those are going to become perfect JHP bullets very quickly. I'm going to have to get me a set up just like that :)

Can't wait to see the Hydro press in action.

Swage on!

BT

[xman777]

Here's a video showing expanding, core seating, and notching on a Dillon progressive using BTSniper's die set. I'll post the point forming step on a Corbin CHP Hydro next.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-NdtGHwRWU

This is how I do mine on the 650 but I use a case feeder and bullet feeder. Cheap, fast and easy... What could be better than that?

Come to think of it, I should start posting some videos now that the basement is closer to finished.

[BT Sniper]

Would love to see some videos!

BT

[Walkstep]

Here is the point forming step on the Corbin CHP-1 hydraulic press:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=kG2oh8C9Bmg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kG2oh8C9Bmg)

The press is cycling in Auto mode with Position and Auto Pressure Reverse switches set to On to control the diameter and protect the BTSniper point forming die against over-travel and over-pressure. The bullets consistently achieve the .3995 inch diameter die spec (and look pretty cool). The cycle timers are set conservatively (longer delays) while I learn the process. The system hydraulic pressure at the top of stroke is ~650 psi which calcs to 17,185 psi internal die pressure.

[goblism]

Here is the point forming step on the Corbin CHP-1 hydraulic press:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=kG2oh8C9Bmg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kG2oh8C9Bmg)

The press is cycling in Auto mode with Position and Auto Pressure Reverse switches set to On to control the diameter and protect the BTSniper point forming die against over-travel and over-pressure. The bullets consistently achieve the .3995 inch diameter die spec (and look pretty cool). The cycle timers are set conservatively (longer delays) while I learn the process. The system hydraulic pressure at the top of stroke is ~650 psi which calcs to 17,185 psi internal die pressure.

You're making me want to get a hydraulic press!

[SAndy37]

Here's a video showing expanding, core seating, and notching on a Dillon progressive using BTSniper's die set. I'll post the point forming step on a Corbin CHP Hydro next.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-NdtGHwRWU

I do pretty much the same on a 1050, with a case and bullet feede, using a standard expander at the start of the process. then its on the lathe to trim the rims off, and into the Corbin CHP11 for point forming, unfortunately by hand. The initial process is extremely quick using the 1050.
We have had exceptional results with these bullets out of a .40S&W. On a recently culled giraffe thigh (skin removed)- consistant expansion to 17.2mm, 100 % weight retention (unbonded, no cannelure) and 30cm expansion in dense flesh (around 12" for the metrically challenged) Thats with a low end load. Accuracy was remarkable as was extreme spread over chrony.

[Walkstep]

SAndy37, that is fascinating...testing the round on a giraffe thigh. A few questions: Why do you trim the rim off (and do you leave the primer in)? Is this an automatic process on the lathe? Is the 1050 strong enough to to do the point forming? Thanks.

[BT Sniper]

Great job with the point forming!

I got me a RCE hydraulic press I am now learning with. I'll have more to post soon.

Good shooting and swage on!

Brian

[Walkstep]

Congrats on the RCE hydraulic press! Looking forward to your posts about it.

I initially bought my hydraulic press to size and load .416 Barrett brass after breaking a Lee Classic on the round (Lee sent repair parts for free). But this swaging project is my first use for it. I have a set of RBTO-HT(tip insert) dies in .416 coming to give me some options besides the lathe turned solids for the Barrett.

[xman777]

What kind of parts will I need to make the RCE Hydro press work for forming? Seems like its the only way to go now.

[SAndy37]

SAndy37, that is fascinating...testing the round on a giraffe thigh. A few questions: Why do you trim the rim off (and do you leave the primer in)? Is this an automatic process on the lathe? Is the 1050 strong enough to to do the point forming? Thanks.
sorry about the delayed response. I trim the rim off because on some cases the rim engages the case web on seating and ripples it. While it's possible to do it automatically, I only have a manual lathe, so it's one by one for me at present. I have trimmed with and without primers, it's easier without on my process, as the primer is just more to remove. I seriously doubt you could point form on a 1050. I'm sure the press could cope, but how would you drive the bullet-to-be into the die?
im going to try post a pic of those giraffe tested bullets ( note- the giraffe was shot under supervision and contract from the wildlife authorities here as part of a conservation programme. I didn't shoot it, that was a pro hunter mate of mine) for the observant, those bullets still have the rim on- it was before I started trimming them

[Talon300]

I have just started absorbing all this data on swaging. I have some questions.
How do the swaged casing jackets perform in polygonal rifling-i.e. Glock and BHW?
I have a 10mm G20 and a 5.56 3P 1:7 BHW barrel on my straight pull AR.
-BTSniper, that 40-308 looks very interesting!
I haven't seen any pics of .500 boolits. I also reload for .50 Beo.
MikeH

[BulletFactory]

Aren't these illegal?

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/%28S%28upa0oc55nw4f0uky1hhkddji%29%29/mileg.aspx?page=GetObject&objectname=mcl-750-224c

[ncbearman]

Aren't these illegal?

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/%28S%28upa0oc55nw4f0uky1hhkddji%29%29/mileg.aspx?page=GetObject&objectname=mcl-750-224c

Armor piercing is steel core. These are lead core.

[BulletFactory]

From the cited law.

(a) “Armor piercing ammunition” means a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a pistol and which is constructed entirely, excluding the presence of traces of other substances, of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, or beryllium copper. Armor piercing ammunition does not include any of the following:

Ok, it says constructed entirely.

Cant be too careful in a police state.

[ncbearman]

From the cited law.

(a) “Armor piercing ammunition” means a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a pistol and which is constructed entirely, excluding the presence of traces of other substances, of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, or beryllium copper. Armor piercing ammunition does not include any of the following:

Ok, it says constructed entirely.

Cant be too careful in a police state.

I hear ya' brother. Maybe things will start to get a little better in Jan 2017..................

[jiandawg]

I recently bought a set of your 9mm to 40 dies second hand at an auction as part of a larger lot. Didn't need any of the rest of the lot, and I initially thought that I had been overzealous in my bidding. I just got around to casting some cores and annealing brass this weekend and just swaged my first bullets from those dies. I've got to say that it was worth every penny.

Up until now I've been making do with macgyvering commercial reloading dies to swage bullets and while that has worked fine, the ease of usage is night and day. With my macgyvered sets, there are any where from 4-6 stages, but with your dies, expand for the core and swage. If you made a .451 one-step die, I would be all over it.

[BT Sniper]

Good to here it! Yes it is a perfect combination of the 9mm case used for a 40 cal bullet. Everything comes together perfectly to allow it to be as simple as a "one step" swage and done.


The 44 cal from 40 S&W also works in the same way but not quite as easy since it is a bigger bullet.


Good shooting and swage on!

BT

[BT Sniper]

Transferred all my pics from photobucket so I'll slowly add photos back to these threads.

here is some random 40 cal bullets to start with.....

https://i.imgur.com/bcBhBL6l.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/KoVjuqul.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/7oc0UGTl.jpg

[BT Sniper]

https://i.imgur.com/WMv9M5gl.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/lJzSsfgl.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/juY5A2il.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/NmIcVtjl.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/A4CiF9Tl.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/jtgaRGal.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/v444Qw3l.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/qncqT12l.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/5LXyOUfl.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/MQ5vrCSl.jpg

[BT Sniper]

https://i.imgur.com/LdIM6nXl.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/FWozp8Nl.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/omxoVvCl.jpg

[BlackoutBuilder]

Forgive me if this is already been asked, but will 380 brass work as well as 9 mm?

[ReloaderFred]

Not in my experience. I use .380 brass to swage into .357" bullets.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[BlackoutBuilder]

Yes. Thank you

[clodhopper]

Brass from a .380 could be used to make .401 bullets. since they start out real close to .375 diameter bringing them up almost .020 in diameter would be the first step.
But 9mm @.394 diameter, is so much easier to get, just cant see my self doing it.

I use .380s for .357 bullets too, form them in a modified .223 cartridge sizing die, then run them through a .357 lee bullet size die.

.380s, also with a lot of sizing down make nice 120 grain .308 bullets. My Ruger American .300 B.O. likes them.

[guywitha3006]

Forgive me if this is already been asked, but will 380 brass work as well as 9 mm?

Yup I just loaded up a few hundred. I used a NOE .314 102 SWC for a core. I annealed the brass with the lead in it and then when they cooled I used my one step die and the came out good. My weights were right about 152 grains. From the few hundred I tested they shoot at least good enough for my abilities.