Frustratingly inaccurate (M1 Load)

[ilcop22]

Howdy,

I had recently worked up some Varget loads for my M1 Garand using 170 gr Lee flat nose Hornady g/c cast boolits. I'd tried various loads, up to 40 gr of Varget, seating the boolit to the crimp groove. I'd put a light crimp on each round in all the loads to keep 'em seated during cycling.

Each of the loads (35-40 gr) ended up being what I describe as horribly inaccurate. Shooting HXP surplus ammo at 50 and 100 yards gave me satisfying (1-3") groups. Shooting my cast loads put rounds all over the inside of the ring on a 100 yard NRA rifle target or 25 yard pistol target.

Though I'm switching to IMR 4895, I'd still like to get the Varget load in order for good measure.

Could it be boolit crimp? Too much powder? Too fast? Any advice?

Thanks.

[sheepdog]

Have you tried "the load"? 13 grains of red dot. Wouldn't cycle the action on your M1 but my 03A3 loves it. As long as you dont mind your M1 being a straight pull during target practice its a great cheap and accurate load thats easy on the brass.

[Frank46]

Try 4759 about 20 grains, I use it for my fin rework model 27 moisin nagant. And try a little heavier bullet. I have found that using a bullet heavier for the caliber sometimes gets you great accuracy. I'm using the lyman 314299 which weighs about 210 grs ready to shoot. Frank

[BruceB]

From the original post, it seems to me that ilcop22 wants the rifle to FUNCTION, meaning, work in its normal semi-auto mode.

4759 and Red Dot will simply not allow this, but it's certainly not hard to accomplish. I detest 4759 for its abominable metering characteristics, and refuse to have it in my shop.

I suggest going to a slow-burner like H4831 Short Cut. (The SC is to reduce difficulties in running charges through a powder measure. Regular H4831 works just fine, too.)

With that 170 Lee bullet, start at around 40 grains of 4831 and be prepared to work it up a grain at a time until the rifle functions. The well-regarded and widely-used "BobS Load" for the Garand uses the much heavier 311284 bullet, which is around 220 grains, with 41.0 grains of OLD H4831. Shooting cast bullets is NOT a simple matter of just substituting a cast bullet for the jacketed one.

All my "normal" .30 caliber cast-bullet loading starts with bullets of .311" diameter, including those for the Garand and M1A. I rarely have to change that diameter. Do NOT size them at .308".

If the rifle is giving decent accuracy with jacketed loads, and it seems that it is, then it's only a matter of some experimentation before satisfactory cast loads can be manufactured. I think the Varget, which is OK for jacketed use, is too quick-burning for the cast bullet being used.

Do a search for "M1" and "Garand" to see how others deal with the M1 Rifle and cast bullets.

[ilcop22]

I appreciate all the replies, thank you. However, I really was looking for pointers on Varget powder while I finish it off in favor of IMR 4895.

[BruceB]

ilcop, pard;

The problem here is that your rifle doesn't care about your desires to use up that powder. It's also a bit of a toss-up as to whether it'll run on 4895 with cast bullets.

It's almost certain that your velocity is too high with the charge you mentioned. The thing to do now, if Varget HAS to be the powder, is reduce the charge to maybe 30 grains and start working up just to the point where the action will lock open after clip ejection. Load only eight rounds at each charge level, and see if the rifle works. Raise the charge in one-grain increments, and I suspect that somewhere around 35 grains, the rifle will be very close to operating properly.

Forget about duplicating jacketed-bullet velocity. 1700-1800 fps is most likely where the rifle will find its "happy spot", which means a different sight setting from that for jacketed loads will be required at any given range.

Good luck....

[dualsport]

If it was me I'd be looking at the boolit. Bruce was a little subtle maybe. In my experience it's not likely that Lee boolit is more than .308 and probably about .298 on the nose section. That is not a good thing with cast boolits. Until the bollit fits it won't matter much which powder you use, accuracy will be poor. Like he said, try .311

[shotman]

I dont use Varget but that sounds like a hot load for cast . I would bet you are getting a smooth bore boolit. Like said shoot it single or get the right powder.

[Larry Gibson]

If you insist on Varget drop the load to 30 gr and use a 3/4 gr dacron filler. Work up in 1 gr increments until functioning is reliable. When functioning is reliable that is about as good as it will get with that weight bullet, alloy, BHN and Varget. As mentioned a .311 sized bullet will be best.

Give some thought to getting a 311299 or 314299 if the bore is warn. It has the weight for reliable functioning at a workable velocity with 4895 in particular. However, when you get the 4895 give us a hollor and we can adjust from there.

Larry Gibson

[Nobade]

Yesterday I tried for the first time to get a cast bullet load to function my M1. Using 311041 and AA3100 powder, I went from 44 to 49 grains. All loads functioned the action, 47gr. was the most accurate, and 49 started showing a gray bore. At 47 gr, I had no problem hitting the 385M turkey silhouettes off the bench. I couldn't see the rams from the bench (berm in the way) so I didn't shoot any further. I don't know the velocity, but sights were set on 600 to hit at 385M, so not TOO slow. I'm pleased, and the guys at the range couldn't believe a cast bullet load could do that!

[GrizzLeeBear]

Nobade, are you using any filler, like Dacron, etc? Magnum primers?

[TAWILDCATT]

try the 13 gr of red dot to test the lead bullet accuracy.if it wont shoot then the bullet is wrong.you have to have a bigger bullet in lead.I use lyman 311291 and Lee 312-160 TL both shoot 1 inch at 100 in a 1903.
I am useing AAC 2520 in garand with 31 gr and used a Modern Bond 180 gr non GC.it tossed the cases so now I am going to 29.to see if it works.why people dont buyamerican I will never know.course we dont know where the powder actually comes from.
they make a adjutable gas plug to allow for pressure.

[Patrick L]

When I went through this process about 5 years ago, I found that I could not get decent accuracy with any of the so called "normal" M1 powders like 4895 , 4064, Varget etc.

I found that fast powders like shot well, but of course they were a single load proposition. My bolt action load of 18 gr 2400 was a perfect example.

I found I needed to use the Bob S type loads to get loads that shot well AND functioned the gun. I settled on 40 gr IMR 4831. I tried H4831 SC thinking it would meter better in a progressive press, but it left a lot of unburned powder, enough that sometimes rounds either failed to fully chamber, or there was severe denting of the shoulder due to the unburned powder granules. IMR 4831 burned very clean.

[Nobade]

No fillers, just powder and bullet. Lit off with a Federal 215 magnum primer.

[madsenshooter]

The only reason anyone would need an adjustable gas plug on their garand when using cast loads is if you were using over 50gr of powder, like a caseful of 860 or something like that. They're not made so that you can adjust the system so 16gr of 2400 is going to cycle the action, they're made to bleed off excess gas volume produced with charges of slow burners over the 50gr that the gas system was designed for. For anything else, leave the system closed.