I have 500 lbs of pure lead...how do I make it usable as a hangun boolit alloy?

[Jayhem]

I'm a complete newbie to hangun boolit casting. I've been casting shotgun slugs and muzzleloader projectiles for years out of my supply of over 500 lbs of pure lead.

Now I'm getting into handgun casting and I have no clue what amounts of Tin/Antimony I need to add to my lead to get the right hardness for loads that will range from 800 - 1,000 fps.

What are my options and where can I get the alloys to mix with my lead? [smilie=s:

[Phat Man Mike]

:bigsmyl2:rotometals sells all that's needed [smilie=s:

[Jayhem]

:bigsmyl2:rotometals sells all that's needed [smilie=s:

I have been on their site. I'm not sure what I need though. I see that they have tin ingots for sale at $9.99 per lb but is tin all I need? If so how would I go about combining a tin ingot with my lead melt and what parts tin to lead would work well for handgun bullets?

[Springfield]

You don't say what caliber but generally I find 1-2% tin in the lead works for most applications. Just throw the tin in with the lead and stir. Whether you do it in a big batch or just mix while casting is up to you, depending on your equipment. I always do big batches. If you need it harder still then you should find some wheelweights or linotype to harden it more.

[Jayhem]

You don't say what caliber but generally I find 1-2% tin in the lead works for most applications. Just throw the tin in with the lead and stir. Whether you do it in a big batch or just mix while casting is up to you, depending on your equipment. I always do big batches. If you need it harder still then you should find some wheelweights or linotype to harden it more.

I will be casting for .38 Sp at 750 fps, .40 S&W at 900 fps, and .45 ACP at 800 fps.

will 2% tin be enough for these loads? I use Allox lubes.

[arcticbreeze]

For those velocities you won't need to harden too much. If it were me I would find some wheel weights and mix 50/50 with your pure lead and maybe 1-2% tin. That will give you some hardness, the tin is not 100% needed but will aid in fill out. Antimony and maybe some arsenic is what are needed for hardness but the home caster will have a hard time alloying pure antimony. That is where the WW come in.

Good Luck
Marc

[Jayhem]

For those velocities you won't need to harden too much. If it were me I would find some wheel weights and mix 50/50 with your pure lead and maybe 1-2% tin. That will give you some hardness, the tin is not 100% needed but will aid in fill out. Antimony and maybe some arsenic is what are needed for hardness but the home caster will have a hard time alloying pure antimony. That is where the WW come in.

Good Luck
Marc



Good info. I have a friend who runs a auto repair shop...he says he can get me 100 lbs of wheel weights next week. I may go that route 50:50 with my pure lead and then add 2% tin.

Oh one more thing. I keep hearing about water dropping casts for extra hardness. How does this work and would it make a difference with just a 2% tin to pure lead alloy?

[454PB]

You need antimony in the alloy for heat treating or water quenching, so adding tin alone won't work. Wheelweights alone cast well, but only contain about 1/2% tin. If you add even an additional 1% tin, you'll have a good casting alloy.

You simply drop the boolits from the mould into cold water, then size them (if you're going to) quickly. They begin to harden almost immediately, so they need to be sized within 24 hours. I size the same day, usually right after casting.

For the velocities and calibers you listed, you don't need any heat treating, but it doesn't hurt anything.

[Jayhem]

Ok, I'm learning! So I can make a decent casting allow for low velocity with just lead and 1-2% tin? This seems the most straight forward and tin appears to be the easiest to alloy with lead.

[Muddy Creek Sam]

Jayhem,

It is also a great BP alloy.

Sam :D

[lylejb]

+1 on the 50% wheel weight, 50% pure lead, + 1-2% tin, if needed for good fill out.

Don't bother with the water drop, you don't need high hardness for what your loading. Harder is NOT always better. Correct fit is more important. Just drop the boolits on a old towel and let them air cool.

I've cast with 2/3 WW, 1/3 pure, +2% tin (mostly because thats what I have on hand), for 357 mag at 1200fps with no leading and very good accuracy. These are air cooled boolits. I'm very happy with them. I'm sure I could load hottter / higher vel. if i wanted to.


with just lead and 1-2% tin?

When you say " just lead" I think pure lead. Pure lead +2% tin is too soft. This is where the antimony comes in. Antimony hardens lead to a greater degree than tin.

Fortunatly, clip on wheel weights are about 4% antimony. This is the easiest / cheepest way to get antimony.

Places like Rotometals do sell lead/ antimony alloy bars with up to 30% antimony. These could be added in small amounts to a larger pot of pure lead to achieve the same hardening effect, but it would cost more.

You don't want too hard or too soft. 1/2 wheel weight 1/2 pure should get you a happy medium for the calibers you said.

Tin does harden lead, but to a lesser degree than antimony. It takes a lot more tin to harden like a little antimony. tin is also expensive. Mostly, tin helps lower the surface tension of the alloy which results in better fill out in the mould. You might notice people saying 1-2% tin. This seems like the point for best results, more tin doesn't always help.

[Jayhem]

^ Thanks for that excellent response. I just learned as much in 20 seconds as I have all week! I'll be getting some WW's soon. All the lead I have is pure or at least 99% pure. I know it's too soft because I easily scratch the ingot surfaces with a finger nail and light pressure.

[TAWILDCATT]

save some of the pure lead for your shot gun slugs.and BP.I use WW only and have no problems but I have been casting for 70 some yrs.
I belong to a club up new england that took out 13 tons of lead from indoor range.If any have access to a indoor range you could maybe get all you wanted.
:coffeecom

[John Boy]

Jayhem, a 50:50 mix of WW's and lead is dependent on the hardness of the WW's.
WW Bhn 13.5 = alloy of Bhn 9.25 - 1:30 alloy
WW Bhn of 15.3 = alloy of Bhn 10.15 .- 1:20 alloy
Either will work for what you want to reload with.
The above hardness's are the common ones that I have melted down

Some folks say WW's have a hardness of Bhn 9 (soft). I have close to 700# of WW's and not one batch has ever been Bhn 9

[Chris]

SO what if you have no access to clip on weights? I have several hundred pounds of stick on weights. Is the best route to go with these just buying the Antimoney alloy from rotometals?

[Springfield]

Chris: It would be much easier to buy 50 lbs of clip-on wheelweights from e-bay and then mix. You can even buy them here sometimes.

[Chris]

Chris: It would be much easier to buy 50 lbs of clip-on wheelweights from e-bay and then mix. You can even buy them here sometimes.

Sorry to jump in and give the thread a twist but sometimes search yields pages and pages of searching with few answers. : So about 50/50 then with some Tin added would make a decent alloy? I am trying to get to 1300 fps in a 10mm and 44 mag.

[Echo]

Welcome to the forum, Jayhem. +1 on 2% tin - it reduces the surface tension of the melted alloy - that is what makes for better fillout. It also adds a tad of hardness, but not enough to get excited about. Fifty/fifty Pb/WW with 2% added tin is hard to beat for danged near anything.

[lwknight]

2-3% tin also lowers your melt temp by about 60 degrees and lowers your required pot temp by about 90 degrees or more. Resulting in faster casting overall.

[GP100man]

The only time I water drop is when I`m gonna lean on the magnum loads, 357&44 that is with straight WW & tin added .

38wadcutters I try to cast straight stik ons (if they`ll fill out) with as little tin added as possible.

[Jayhem]

So if I use pure lead and 1-2% tin will it increase BHN at all? If this would help fill out for muzzleloading boolits I'd buy some tin for this as 4 lbs of tin would treat about 300 lbs of pure lead for this application.

[454PB]

Tin has minimal hardening qualities. Though I've never done an actual test of this, I doubt you could measure any appreciable increase in hardness by adding 1 or 2% tin to pure lead. It will cast better, but very little increase in hardness.

[Jayhem]

Tin has minimal hardening qualities. Though I've never done an actual test of this, I doubt you could measure any appreciable increase in hardness by adding 1 or 2% tin to pure lead. It will cast better, but very little increase in hardness.

Got ya. So what of this:

Pure lead + 2% tin + X% antimony = BHn of wheel weights

What % antimony would I have to add to get my alloy the hardness of clip on WW's?

[454PB]

In general, wheelweights have around 4% antimony.

[Jayhem]

In general, wheelweights have around 4% antimony.

Ok. Well being as I don't have wheelweights I have ordered 5 lbs of the 30% antimony ingots from rotometals.com. I also ordered 2 lbs of the tin sticks. I will use this to create a 4% antimony, 2% tin alloy for my handgun boolits!

[G- Unit]

get a copy of lyman's cast bullet manual, 3rd edition it's a good source for alloy formulation

[lylejb]

From the bottom of rotometals bullet alloy page:

Basic Rules for Harding Lead-


For every 1% additional tin, Brinell hardness increases 0.3.
For every 1% additional antimony, Brinell hardness increases 0.9.
For a simple equation,
Brinell = 8.60 + ( 0.29 * Tin ) + ( 0.92 * Antimony )

Also check out LASC's cast bullet notes page. It has some good info on hardness, alloys, recipes, ect.

http://www.lasc.us/CastBulletNotes.htm

While straight wheel weights ( or equilivelant) will work fine, You may be able to use less hardness, which would make your rotometals ingots go farther.

The boolits I'm using in 38 / 357 mag are BHN 10, and are 2/3 WW. I've shot these at 1200 fps with no problems.

You might try: 10lb of your pure lead + 1lb of the 30% antimony + 3.5 ounces tin
That comes out 2.7% antimony, 2% tin, and about BHN 10 or 11.

[leadman]

Linotype is also a good alloy to harden pure lead with . This can be found on the Selling & Swapping site here and sometimes e-bay or scrap yards. A ration of 10/1 to 20/1 is usually good for handguns and some rifles.

[Barnowl]

See the following link for more info and posts #12 & 22 for an Alloy Calculator spreadsheet that is quite useful for seeing the projected outcome of various alloy mixes.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=67401

Kevin

[Jayhem]

From the bottom of rotometals bullet alloy page:

Basic Rules for Harding Lead-


For every 1% additional tin, Brinell hardness increases 0.3.
For every 1% additional antimony, Brinell hardness increases 0.9.
For a simple equation,
Brinell = 8.60 + ( 0.29 * Tin ) + ( 0.92 * Antimony )

Also check out LASC's cast bullet notes page. It has some good info on hardness, alloys, recipes, ect.

http://www.lasc.us/CastBulletNotes.htm

While straight wheel weights ( or equilivelant) will work fine, You may be able to use less hardness, which would make your rotometals ingots go farther.

The boolits I'm using in 38 / 357 mag are BHN 10, and are 2/3 WW. I've shot these at 1200 fps with no problems.

You might try: 10lb of your pure lead + 1lb of the 30% antimony + 3.5 ounces tin
That comes out 2.7% antimony, 2% tin, and about BHN 10 or 11.

Thanks! That's what I'm going to try. I'm only shooting at 800-950 fps in .40 and .45.