ER Shaw Barrels and Barreling Service?

[Lawyerman]

Yesterday while slinking around one of the local pawn shops I found a Winchester 670. It's an econo version of the M70 of course. This one was in .243. I don't really care for the .243 caliber and I already have two rifles for it anyway.

I would have put it back on the shelf but for the fact that it was only $180 and had a Weaver 3x9 steel tube variable on it! No rust and the stock while plain and in need of a refinish badly had no cracks or breaks etc....

So, it is now at home and I spent most of last evening fondling and cleaning it. I have decided that I will re barrel it to a caliber more to my taste. I think I will send it off to ER Shaw and have them put a 22" stainless .358 Win. barrel on it. I'm sure when I get it back I will have to sand on my barrel channel etc as the .35 cal barrel will be larger....but that it can be made to work. I can strip the stock and install a recoil pad as I wait I suppose.

It will cost me about $275 to get this done which seems quite reasonable. I should be able to recoup some of the cost by selling the Weaver 3x9 (a .358 needs a nice 2x7 compact I think) and the .243 barrel. This should be a fairly inexpensive little project and alot of fun.

What's everybody think about ER Shaw and their services? Anyplace else I should consider?

[MT Gianni]

They did a good job on mine from 8mm to 243 but it was in 81. They may have changed some since then.

[Charlie Sometimes]

Don't know where you are located, but there are lots of good barrel people out there.

Have you considered Douglas Barrels?
Anybody really popular might have a big back log, though.

How about a rebore, and save the extra expense for that work?
Is there enough metal in the original barrel for that?

Why not use the same profile and save the extra stock work, or better yet, put a laminate or synthetic stock on it that has a heavy barrel configuration barrel channel.

Some of those "transition" Model 70's fit a lot of the later stocks too.
You might find a laminate or synthetic in some thing newer- I did ($50).
Mine is a Long Action 243 Winchester- the magazine has a shorter follower and space filler to make it work, and it does just fine, and is a great shooter.

Lots of choices!

[johnly]

I the 670's I've seen have all been on the 06 length action, rather than the short 308 length. Might just want to take a second look before you get started.

John

[Ben]

Lawyerman:

You just may want to take a look at this before you send your action to E R Shaw for rebarreling :

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=67463

[Hardcast416taylor]

One thing you should be aware of is the policy E R Shaw has on barrel diameters that are done with calibers over .323" cal. You would wind up with a #2 1/2 barrel contour, with no say on the matter. This contour is for a very heavy walled barrel that added a lot of weight. If you are looking for a more slender barrel taper you should look at other barrel makers offerings for the .358 cal. before deciding.:mrgreen:Robert

[Lawyerman]

You guys are a fine bunch of help!

It probably is a long action now that you mention it. I hadn't thought of that-I don't know when Winchester started making short actions post '64......Not really sure what to do with it now.......That stinks, I need a stupid .243 like a rock upside the head. Might have to turn it into a Whelen????

I do have a 1980's vintage Winchester M70 stock somewhere in the garage......I could scrounge some bottom metal and rebarrel it.....Aw crud, this got more complicated than I had wanted it to.

[StarMetal]

Well....if you're wanting something big bore and if you're going to get it on a long case being that is your action is the long action, I'd get a 9.3x62 before I got a 35 Whelen.

Joe

[longhorn]

Didn't I recently read a John Barsness article on a Shaw barrel they set up as a 6.5-'06? As I recall, they wanted to show off manufacturing upgrades and he was impressed. A gun writer, true, but one I find reliable.

[Guesser]

I have several Shaw barrels in use, good barrels. I've never had them do the work, just ordered the barrels. Had one bad barrel, too tight bore, they replaced it right away, no quibbling. Good people to deal with.

[Charlie Sometimes]

You guys are a fine bunch of help!

It probably is a long action now that you mention it. I hadn't thought of that-I don't know when Winchester started making short actions post '64......Not really sure what to do with it now.......That stinks, I need a stupid .243 like a rock upside the head. Might have to turn it into a Whelen????

I do have a 1980's vintage Winchester M70 stock somewhere in the garage......I could scrounge some bottom metal and rebarrel it.....Aw crud, this got more complicated than I had wanted it to.

Hey, you're the "lawyerman"- you're suppose to see all the angles and loop holes! :lol: :razz:

Where are you at?

I'd give you your money ($180) back on the rifle and save you all the trouble and misery you're going to put yourself through. :bigsmyl2: (seriously)

I liked Star Metal's idea of the 9.3x62 modification best.

Then again, to use the existing 243/6 mm bore, you could possibly rechamber it to a 6mm/06 for long range work.

Again- lot's of options! :lol:

[StarMetal]

I had a friend that had a 6mm06 and he hated it. Forming the brass, thinning the necks...and it's way way overbore.

Joe

[Charlie Sometimes]

Not to get too far off topic, but-

dk17hmr has a 6mm-06 (forget what the wildcat is called exactly) and last I heard, was still working with it.

What other options could there be with the original barrel and twist rate?

[Lawyerman]

Going to make it a Whelen. Just have to decide whether to send it off or order a Shilen barrel and have a local 'smith do the chambering or to send it to Shaw. They really have a pretty good "package" deal on the project.

[StarMetal]

My pick would be the Shilen barrel.

Joe

[rockrat]

Why not have JES reboring make it into a 358win? $225 IIRC

[yondering]

Lawyerman, I like the Whelen choice best. It's my favorite hunting round. You might consider the Ackley version, since you are going with a new barrel and have to buy dies anyway. Most will argue that it's un-necessary, but the Ackley version does have significant advantages in case life, with the sharper shoulder. It also looks cooler too. :D While I wouldn't bother re-chambering a standard Whelen to the Ackley version again, if you're starting from scratch, cost will be the same either way, with no disadvantages to the Ackley version.




What other options could there be with the original barrel and twist rate?

The 6mm Rem Ackley would be a simple reaming job. I don't think the standard 6mm Rem will clean up a .243 chamber, but the Ackley version will. I have one, and love it. Case forming is nothing complicated, just fireform once and you're done. Velocity is too high for cast though; about double what most here can achieve with cast boolits.

[anachronism]

The last I heard, Shaw had a hideously long wait for rebarreling.

[NHlever]

You guys are a fine bunch of help!

It probably is a long action now that you mention it. I hadn't thought of that-I don't know when Winchester started making short actions post '64......Not really sure what to do with it now.......That stinks, I need a stupid .243 like a rock upside the head. Might have to turn it into a Whelen????

I do have a 1980's vintage Winchester M70 stock somewhere in the garage......I could scrounge some bottom metal and rebarrel it.....Aw crud, this got more complicated than I had wanted it to.

If the gun was chambered from the factory for the .243, the .358 Win should work just fine. They do, after all share the same parent case. The only downside is a slightly longer bolt throw since the magazine will have been "blocked" for the shorter cartridge at the factory. I don't see any issues. Making it into a long action round will actually be more trouble since it probably won't feed worth a darn, and you will have to rip that filler block, etc. out.

[machinisttx]

My 6.8 SPC AR15 wears an E.R. Shaw barrel and shoots far better than I can.

[Heavy lead]

I sent two model 70's off to Shaw a few years back, one in a .257 Weatherby that shot well a 26" fluted tube, the other a short 2.5 contour (20" long) stainless in .338-06. It may be the most accurate rifle I have, I could prarie dog this rifle with 200 grain ballistic tips, no kidding easy 1/2 moa.

[mauser98us]

I had Shaw barrel a 98 for 35 Whelan AI. I could not have been more pleased with the work and turaround time. Go for it

[j20owner]

Kind of off topic, kind of on. When you guys sent your rifles off to Shaw, did you mail them yourself and Shaw sent them directly back to you? Not sure how that owner shipping/to owner shipping stuff works.

[azrednek]

Going to make it a Whelen. Just have to decide whether to send it off or order a Shilen barrel and have a local 'smith do the chambering or to send it to Shaw. They really have a pretty good "package" deal on the project.

Shaw has done two barrels for me. The last one, I added blueing, sights and a muzzle brake to the order. I couldn't find either a local or long distance gunsmith to come any where near as low as Shaw's package deal. Shaw's blueing prices are about the best you can find anywhere and they do an excellent job. Unfortunately they will only do blueing with a barrel order.

I bought a brand new Winchester 670 in 30/06 in the late 70's. The price was 129.95 and it included a Weaver 4 power scope. I got it from Woolco. I went there to pick up a Ruger 45 Convertible that I had on lay away. Due to harassment from the then BATF. Woolco put all the lay away-ed handguns back into stock and mine was sold. I got a refund, a 10% off coupon and used it to buy the 670.


Kind of off topic, kind of on. When you guys sent your rifles off to Shaw, did you mail them yourself and Shaw sent them directly back to you? Not sure how that owner shipping/to owner shipping stuff works.

I sent it directly to Shaw via insured US Mail and it was returned to my door by UPS. The US Post Office may tell you it has to go by registered mail. The USPS regs say registered mail is recommended but it is not required. Call Shaw and ask to speak to Chris. Chris usually answers the phone. He will explain the entire shipping process and will answer all questions quite throughly.

[Lawyerman]

I have been wanting to do another Whelen anyway. I have no use whatsoever for anything in the 6mm bore size, none. I have a couple of .358's already so it's no big deal not to make this one up in .358. I much prefer short action cartridges in short action rifles.

Still undecided about whether to send it out or have a local smith do the work. One reason that I have not considered a "rebore" is because I seriously doubt that there is enough meat in the existing barrel to go safely from .243 to .35 caliber.

[quack1]

I'll add my .02. I have 4 Shaw barrels, 22-250 to 45-70, and all shoot very well. I would not hesitate to buy more in the future. That said, if I was building a bench gun or an extremely accurate varmint rifle, I would use a better name barrel. All my Shaw barreled guns are used for hunting and with some load tweaking will shoot around an inch at 100 yds. I also shoot cast in all of them with no complaints. Can't help you with shipping, as Shaw is just on the other side of Pittsburgh from me, and I delivered and picked them up myself.

[wheezengeezer]

I looked into a .358 cal Shaw barrel a few years ago.I believe their rifling was stated as 3.5 thou deep where Adams and Bennet was only 2.5 thou deep.The twist was 1 in 14.They should shoot cast well.I am thinkin the 670"Ranger"? has a blind box magazine like the 70A and the discontinued push feed Black shadow which will make finding a stock a bit harder.

[Char-Gar]

Shaw's current turn around time for barrel work is 6 months.

[lonewolf5347]

ER Shaw :I had dealing with them on more then once over the last 30 years with large ring Mauser's action and some springfields.
The bolts bents,drilled and taped and installing there barrels and reblueing the complete barrel action :I can say never had a problems excellent turn around time 6 to 8 weeks.I know they are a little slow around the hunting season .

[Three44s]

My first .243 was in a 670 Winchester.

I believe it was a short action but that's many years ago .............. I'd check with an '06 cartridge.

Three 44s

[NHlever]

I'm still a little concerned that if it is a long action with a filler block that the feed lips milled into the action will give you problems. Once you take the filler block out, or put in a 30-06 magazine box, and follower the feed lips just won't be in the right place, or the right shape. I did that once, going from a .243 to a 7X57, and had all kinds of issues.

[Char-Gar]

Over the years, I have owned two long action rifles with filler blocks installed in the front of the magzine box so shorter rounds could be used, they are;

1. A factory Remington 30-S (a commercial version of the old 1917 Enfield) chambered for 25 Remington. Now that is a short round in a loong action.

2. A custom 98 Mauser chambered for the .243 Round.

Both had filler blocked soldered to the front of the magazine box, the tops of which had been contoured to be an extension of the action feed ramp. The follower was shortened. No modifications had been done to the action itself. The block could be removed, a standard follower used and the action was good to go for a long round again.

It has been a few decades since I had on of those rifles to look atk, but I would think a filler block could be fashioned from steel or aluminum with a trough in the top which would slide the round right into the chamber. Polish the trough real well and fix the block to the front of the magaine box with solder, epoxy or a small screw or two.

[223tenx]

I have two 110's in med length actions and one is setup with a single feed follower and the other has the stock follower and internal mag. I can load and shoot the single almost as fast as the other one. As these are push feed, all you have to do is drop the cartridge on top of the follower and work the bolt. I can get off three shots almost as fast in the single feed as I can load three in the mag of the other one and feed them. If you count the time it takes to load the internal magazine, probably faster.

[Uncle Grinch]

Kind of off topic, kind of on. When you guys sent your rifles off to Shaw, did you mail them yourself and Shaw sent them directly back to you? Not sure how that owner shipping/to owner shipping stuff works.


As the firearm owner, you can ship direct to a licensed repair station and they can ship directly back to you. I usually use FedEx.

Handguns are stricker if I remember.

[Rico1950]

Bought a Win 670 new in 1964, .270 ca.
Over time and money I changed it to a M70 type. Bought a M 70 Bell & Carlson syn. camo stock and floorplate hardware for a M70. Still have it. It's one of my most accurate rifles with 130 or 150gr bullets. No cast yet, but I do have a RCBS 27-130-FN mold.
Don't think I'll ever get rid of it. Too many memories.