800 pounds of sticky-ons. Need to make usable allow Question.

[Just Duke]

I have 800 pounds of sticky-on and was wondering how much lino I would need and what percentage would need to go into the mix for a usable alloy to make 500 S&W and 45-70 bullets. These are all at 1200 fps.
TIA,
Duke

[Houndog]

Duke,
Others may not agree with me but for the rounds you mentioned I'd mix the stickies 50/50 with wheelweights and add a little tin if I had to for good fillout. If you feel they need to be harder just water drop them. Save that Lino for when you REALLY want to jack up the pressure and velocity!

[KYCaster]

Duke, assuming your stick ons are nearly pure Pb....50/50 SOWW/lino = 92-6-2. Quite a bit harder than necessary for either of the cartridges you mention.

75 SOWW/25 lino = 96-3-1. Reasonably close to clip on WW. Should work well depending on exact loads, but still harder than necessary.

90 SOWW/10 lino = 98.4-1.2-.4. May have to add a bit of Sn for fill out. Will probably harden some with heat treat, but if you want harder, I'd just mix the harder alloy.

Exact % will vary somewhat depending on your scrap. The stick ons probably have some Sb which will increase the hardness some.

If it were me, I'd try a small batch at 80/20 and air cool just to get a starting point.

Have fun.

Jerry

[Bullshop]

Think about pressure. The 45/70 can push a 500gn boolit to your target 1200 fps at less than 20,000 psi. At that pressure pure lead will work very well. I think the stick on's are alloyed somewhat but I dont know the composition. I do know that the ones I use will test about the same as 30/1 lead/tin or about BHN-8. That hardness is more than plenty for your 1200 fps.
The 500 S&W I have no clue as to what kind of pressure it takes to push your boolit weight to your desired 1200 fps. I have chronoed some factory ammo with 440gn boolits at 1700 fps. The claimed pressure was 60,000 psi, I duno.
If you can get your 1200 fps and stay under 30,000 psi I would expect that without changing the alloy of your stick on's they will deliver the goods, no problem.
The next consideration will be an acceptable lube and, well I guess you know where I am headed with that!
BIC/BS

[lwknight]

This is handy tp play around with alloys.
I hope this upload workd

[mooman76]

I was using a very soft alloy in my 45-70 and had no problems with leading. It didn't shoot as well as I liked but it wasn't the alloy. Also if you are using a HB mould a softer alloy would work better anyway.

[knifemaker]

Duke; I have mixed 50/50 wheel weights with pure lead and have pushed them over 1100 fps with no leading in several guns. I under stand that mixing lino type 50/50 with pure lead will give you a mix slightly harder then straight clip on wheel weights. I have water dropped straight wheel weights and pushed it over 1900 fps with out any leading in several rifles.
So if all you have is lino to cut the sticky type weights, I would look at mixing it 25 % lino to 75% sticky wheel weights and I bet you will have no leading at your 1200 fps and the lino may have enough tin in it for good fill out. You should get by also just towel dropping the bullets, unless you want them harder then water drop. You can add 1% tin to the above 25/75 mix if you do not get good fill out in your mold.
If it works, it will stretch your lino type a lot further and save you some money.

[MtGun44]

Straight stickons with 3-5% tin added should be wonderful for your application. No need
for the antimony. So for 20 lbs of stickons you would add a pound of tin, to old standby
20:1 alloy which is used for long range match loads in .45-70 and should be just fine
for 50 S&W at only 1200 fps (assuming the stickons are pure Pb).

Bill

[fredj338]

I like 20-1 alloy for 1200fps. If you have the lino, 4-1 lead/lino works for me.

[Gunslinger]

I would assume the .500 would need a harder alloy!

If you mix your stick-ons with lino 3-1 you get Lyman #2. Since I started casting I heard a lot of good things about this alloy consisting of 90% lead, 5% tin and 5% lino. I never tried it until a few days ago. It casts beautifully!! And the boolits are real shiny... Hven't shot them yet though.

[Echo]

I would assume the .500 would need a harder alloy!

If you mix your stick-ons with lino 3-1 you get Lyman #2. Since I started casting I heard a lot of good things about this alloy consisting of 90% lead, 5% tin and 5% lino. I never tried it until a few days ago. It casts beautifully!! And the boolits are real shiny... Hven't shot them yet though.

Well - The OLD Lyman #2 was 90Pb/5Sn/5Sb - I understand some are making 92Pb/2/Sn/6Sb and calling it #2.

In any case, with lino being 84Pb/4Sn/12Sb (supposedly), mixing 3/1 w/stickies would generate ~ 96Pb/1Sn/3Sb, that is probably a good alloy (needing a little more Sn, IMO), but is not close to either Lyman #2.

[Gunslinger]

Didn't know there were TWO lyman #2's. I see. I was told it was made this way, and that it should be #2. But it was mixed years ago. Here people don't really distinguish between the different type metals. So for all I know it could be monotype. It doesn't come in small letters but in 2 feet barres. I'll post some pictures soon.

Now that I think of it he did say 70/30 pb/lino... makes a measurable difference... but how much exactly I don't know.

[partsman]

i have the lee 500 gr mold i have tried straight clip ons and cant get the weight above 489 grain i also tried some of the gutter lead water droping them but they would only get right above 495 grain but they still seemed soft..........

[lwknight]

The 92-2-6 is a #2 equivelant hardness also known as hardball or electrotype.
This is the generally preferred commercial recipe.

[Gunslinger]

The 92-2-6 is a #2 equivelant hardness also known as hardball or electrotype.
This is the generally preferred commercial recipe.

Aha so that's what hardball is... this seems to have evadet med untill now.

What I have is very shiny, a lot more shiny then the alloys I have made with 2%sn. But like I said the type metal used to make this alloy could be anyone of them.

[fredj338]

i have the lee 500 gr mold i have tried straight clip ons and cant get the weight above 489 grain i also tried some of the gutter lead water droping them but they would only get right above 495 grain but they still seemed soft..........

Water dropping pure lead won't harden the bullet. You'll need some antimony & arsenic for best results. I would think 495 pretty close to 500gr & likely all you get if you are casting from near pure lead.