It’s all your fault!

[Hubertus]

As a few of you know I had the luck of receiving a Pedersoli Rolling Block in .45-70 this August. On the search for loading data and lead bullets sorry boolits I found this website. Thank you for the warm welcome! It is unbelievable how nice you folks are! I received a ton of good information and help and on top of that found friends. But not only advice, I found specimen of precious boolits and wads in my mailbox delivered by the boolit and wad fairy. Thank you gentleman, you know who is meant.

Well, still I have to claim that this is all you fault. I tell you why.
Originally I was just thinking to buy some bullets do some smokeless loads and if it works well maybe I can take the Roller out hunting one sunny day.
But reading this forum and exchanging mails with the great forum members changed the whole deal.

Only a few months later I have a small casting setup and lead supply fixed. First mold bought and boolits cast, second mold (paper patched) bought over the swapping and selling board and eagerly waiting for it to arrive. Fumbling around with lube recipes, trying to get paper patched boolits to shoot with smokeless and so on...
But now it is getting serious: I did my BP license (I wouldn’t be able to buy BP without it) which took a two day course with final test and some serious money down to the government. Later went to buy some a little safe (mandatory to store BP) and my first 1kg can of Swiss 1 ½ fg, as recommended by the board.
Finally I composed my first set of 5 Black powder rounds by more reading, thinking and well sitting down doing it with the boolits and wads courtesy of the fairy. Only 5, ok - I just wanted to start slowly and see what it does.
Then at the range happy as a kid took them out and fired them at a whopping distance of 50 meters. Tell you what they hit the target…(OK, not very very accurate, but I guess one can start from there. Excluding the first fouler the four shots went into 4,5 cm)

Quintessence of this is: I had so much fun doing this and I find myself wanting to only shoot Black Powder. THIS GENTLEMEN IS ALL YOUR FAULT!

Here is the loading set up:
http://i823.photobucket.com/albums/zz157/Hubertus_album/BP_1/droptube.jpg


Ready to go to the range:
http://i823.photobucket.com/albums/zz157/Hubertus_album/BP_1/IMG00273-20091123-2213.jpg

First ever shot BP target (50 meters, front rest)
http://i823.photobucket.com/albums/zz157/Hubertus_album/BP_1/IMG00275-20091125-2016.jpg

Best regards,
Hubertus

[Hardcast416taylor]

I would say that is quite good for just starting. Welcome to the addiction of both casting and black powder shooting.Robert

[1874Sharps]

Wahoo, and well done, Hubertus!

[keeper89]

Be advised there is no cure known to man.....symptoms can be temporarily relieved by frequent trips to the range....welcome and best of luck!:redneck:

[Jon K]

Congratulations and Welcome to the "Dark Side"

Bet You Can't Have Just One!

Have Fun Shooting,
Jon [smilie=w:

[SmuvBoGa]

Black Powder is the most fun you can have - a good whoomp, a cloud of smoke blowing back on you, & looking for the hit. Shooting just five rounds, what a tease ... Best wishes for your addition ! :p

JohnMc

[montana_charlie]

It’s all your fault!

Nope. I have to take the heat for everything that goes wrong inside my fences.
...and...

I am partially responsible for all the dumb stuff that happens in Washington D.C.
...but...

I ain't takin' the blame for anything that happens in Germany!

CM

[Hubertus]

:bigsmyl2:

OK, maybe Charlie is only partially responsible for the BP part
But....
you have to take the blame for me starting casting.

Sure, I will be going back to the range, once I have loaded some more rounds.
Suddenly the black bottle with this other powder ahh forgot the name... doesn't seem so interesting anymore.
I would have never believed this until I actually tried it myself!

Thanks again,
Hubertus

[montana_charlie]

But....
you have to take the blame for me starting casting.
Well...maybe I did say something to the effect that you didn't need an entire fußball field to set up a little table for casting...and that a modest hotplate might get you by without a blast furnace.

But, you could have just ignored me, you know. My wife certainly has no trouble doing that.

I saw you latch onto that BACO paper patch Money mould.

Well, I guess you'll just have yourself to blame for that can of worms...Pilgrim.

The Duke...(err)...CM

[Southern Son]

Hubertus, it gets worse. Soon your wife will be yelling at you for mixing BP lube in the microwave and you will find yourself looking for wierd stuff to put into that lube. You will also find yourself looking at all sorts of stuff and wondering if it will be any good for wads.

[montana_charlie]

Hubertus, it gets worse.
You will also find yourself looking at all sorts of stuff and wondering...
And don't forget 'patches'.
Once you start shooting paper patched bullets over BP, you will probably want to wipe between shots. Two damp patches and one dry one, following every shot, will use patches at an alarming rate.

You'll be digging through the 'linen shrank' looking for sheets and pillow cases that can be cut into 3-inch squares.

If I could find a quantity of the 'right material' and manage to do something to prevent the edges from fraying, I would create a large quantity of 'wiping patches' and try to launder them for re-use.

Running those through the washing machine should tickle the wife...no?

CM

[Southern Son]

Running those through the washing machine should tickle the wife...no?

CM

I'm not even game to mention that to my girl. She puts up with a hell of a lot (I ain't the brightest bulb), but I think that the smell of rotten eggs getting in with her good cotton sheets could be the death of me.

I get my patches from the material shops. I just buy whatever cotton flanelette is the cheapest and cut it up myself. Works out a great deal cheaper than getting ready made patches and a whole heap safer than me "shrinking" the linnen. I used to get it from St Vinnies and the Salvation Army shops, but they stopped sorting the rags and I always seemed to get a great deal of polyester and very little cotton.

[Hubertus]

Oh, oh,

you got me there.
I was already having a look at the T-Shirts and bed sheets.
Since my last range visit I found out that shooting Black takes up a lot of patches,
mmmmh could have imagined that before. Ok, this time I only blame myself:razz:
Yes, I certainly get the feeling that this is getting worse!

The reusable patches (though possibly olfactory questionable and hazardous dealing with spouses) are an idea not too bad.
Supposingly high viscose content doesn't work. The question is up to which percentage one could melt the corners with a lighter to stop fraying, but still get cleaning and no additional residue in the barrel. With straight cotton the white wood glue could work. Charlie, what about washleather? The type to be used for window cleaning - it's thin and not treated and a natural product.

Southern Son, did you find paper for your new mold and do you have results already? I think I bought the same mold like you. It's the .446 Money nose.
At the moment it is somewhere between the U.S. and Germany.

Hubertus

[Bill*]

Hubertus: the name washleather might not be understood by all. Most 'round here call them a chamois

[montana_charlie]

The reusable patches (though possibly olfactory questionable and hazardous dealing with spouses) are an idea not too bad.
With straight cotton the white wood glue could work. Charlie, what about washleather? The type to be used for window cleaning - it's thin and not treated and a natural product.
I'm not familiar with washleather, but I will Google it and try to learn something...

I like cotton for patches, and I'm thinking there must be some way to 'stitch' them at the edges to prevent fraying. There is some kind of a 'binding stitch' on my blue jeans which seems to do that to the raw edges of the denim.

Years ago (how many, I don't even remember) I bought my wife a used sewing machine. It has this sliding panel which allows one to select from a large array of common and 'special' stitches. Like it can do a chain of little doggies, or flowers, or 'who knows what' by just selecting the image and standing on the pedal.

Now my wife truly believes that I am totally incapable of operating this machine.
And, she laughs at me whenever I sit down in the cramped little 'sewing chair' that came with it.
But, during those summers when she spends a month visiting her family in Spain...or those 9-day weeks of bachelorhood back when she was a traveling IRS agent...the somebody who kept my clothes repaired is yours truly.

If I could find out where she hid the owner's manual, I could probably even wind a bobbin.

I'm thinking that one of those specialty stitches resembles the binding on my jeans...and if I can steal some time (alone) to check it out, I might even figure out how to make up some 'permanent patches'.

But I have to wait till she's gone for awhile because the constant laughter makes it hard to concentrate on not sewing my thumb to the maple cabinet.

I think I bought the same mold like you. It's the .446 Money nose.
At the moment it is somewhere between the U.S. and Germany.
Ahh! That would put it somewhere on the lost continent of Atlantis...

CM

[1874Sharps]

Charlie,

I think it is likely Hubertus is referring to a chamois by the term "washleather." I do not see why it would not work either. Oops, I just saw that this has been mentioned.

[martinibelgian]

Hubertus,
Next item on the list is to come along to the Souppes and Obernai international shoots, then onwards to Bisley to have a try at 900 and 1000... If you're a member of BDMP, that would help. BDMP even has a clubhouse at Bisley.

[Crash_Corrigan]

This is a sickness that has not a cure. I just bought a LTD Creedmore 50-90 Sharps rifle at a very decent price from Davisons on the internet. That is one nice looking rifle. Now I needs sights, molds, blow tubes, longer cleaning rods, loading trays, molds, lead, blackpowder and whatever else.

Next I expect is competing in long range matches and long drives to remote locations all over the West. I just like the big pushing recoil so different from smokeless powder and the big booming sounds it makes.

It again feels like I am part of history and not shooting a 21st century high tech piece of machinery.

Most of my weapons are milsurps or single action pistols and they all have a glorious history.

[1874Sharps]

I have tried some of the BP lube that Hubertus has made and it is top notch. That was his first try at it, too. Why does that never happen to me?!! I guess life is not fair.

[Southern Son]

Oh, oh,

Southern Son, did you find paper for your new mold and do you have results already? I think I bought the same mold like you. It's the .446 Money nose.
At the moment it is somewhere between the U.S. and Germany.


Hubertus,
Mate, I got the .444. It is a pretty good mould. Not quite as good as my Steve Brooks mould, but a great deal better than any of my Lyman or Lee moulds. I have only had one casting session with it (and only a short one at that), out of 98 boolits, only 3 did not make the grade (that included the warm up the mould casts). I got some Cotton paper at the same time from BACO. It is fantastic paper to wrap with. After a bit of fiddling around to get grain direction, the boolit wrapping went very smoothly. I about 3 weeks ago I loaded 20 rounds, and have not had a day off to go to the range since then. Will post the results when (if ever) I get to crack off those rounds.

[Bigjohn]

It's all your Fault! No way known is it my fault. We are just the "Great ENABLERS". :kidding:

Black powder is just the thing one needs when stalking game in the "Black Forest" (Groan) :smile:

Really, there is only one way to handle this addiction, Hubertus, surrender to it and enjoy where it takes you.

I know, I did.

[Hubertus]

Thanks everybody for the kind words.
I didn’t really know what I was getting myself into, when receiving my first big bore. Seems I need to download the form for membership in the ABPA – Anonymous Black Powder Addicts – meetings weekly at your favorite range…;)

1874Sharps – thanks for nice words and testing the lube this is greatly appreciated. A blind man may perchance hit the mark or as we say in German “Ein blindes Huhn findet auch mal ein Korn” (A blind chicken will find a grain eventually).:-D

Southern Son it looks like I am not the only one with range time problems. This fall I only made two times. I’d much rather go more often and shoot only 20 or 30 rounds for load testing. Because when you got a bad day and you test different loads, you never know whether it was you or the load.

Meanwhile the mould arrived…[smilie=w:
Can’t wait for the weekend to try it out, ahh but I got an invitation to a driven hunt on Saturday – maybe Sunday then.

Black Forrest – Black Powder …
Well, I am little ways off from the Black Forrest, but it sounds like the perfect match hehe – Only problem here with hunting is that is almost exclusively dawn or dusk. Open sights have its limits. But the plan is to develop a BP load for next year’s roe buck season. I would love to hunt wild boar with it, but this is mostly night time – I need a scope for that.

Matinibelgian, I am more a hunter and a member of the BJV (Bavarian Hunting Association). It is only lately that I found my new field of interest. You might be right with the BDMP – because most of the BP is done there or in the BDS. So far I was reluctant to join – because I am not a regular sport shooter, maybe this will change. I looked around for Obernai and Bisley – sounds interesting, although I am totally NOT up to speed for that. Do you have some more information on the disciplines shot in Obernai (distance, number of shots, types of rifles and so on)? Here the ranges I have access to the longest distance is 300 m but that means a 250 km drive for me. There is another range (about 70 km) but they do have overhead baffles and I don’t know, whether they allow BP because of the trajectory. Al ranges close by only have 100 m lanes.

And yes, I am already looking for different rilfes, sigh – will this ever end…:groner:


Hubertus

[martinibelgian]

Hubertus,
Obernai is usually in August I believe, organised by APTO, and has following disciplines/distances:

Distances: 100-200-300m
Disciplines: match breechloader, match muzzleloader, military breechloader, military muzzleloader.

You'll find participants from all over Europe - France of course, Germany, Switzerland, Belgium, Holland, ...
They also serve pretty nice food too - and a good time is had by most, if not all...
Being able to shoot out to 300 (a recent add-on) is of course a bonus.

Souppes (to the South of Paris) usually is at Easter, with the same disciplines. And Bisley, well... one can write a book about Bisley! suffice to say that they both have a running boar and running deer stand to appeal to the hunters...

[Hubertus]

Martinibelgian, thanks for the information.
Does one have to be a member of a club and is this a noted championship or more a fun shoot? I mean the one in Obernai, that is the closest to my hometown. Again, not that I am at this level at the moment, but maybe the year after next...
It sure sounds fun.


Hubertus

[martinibelgian]

Level is not required - and it is both: a serious international match and a fun shoot - this being BP competition, you'll have other shooters stumbling over each other trying to help you. It sometimes has even gone so far as to lend rifle and ammo to a shooter whose rifle malfunctioned, just so he could complete his competition...
Also - you'll learn more and faster in one of these than in numerous practice sessions. Just show up with a 100m zero, and we can give you the required settings for 200 and 300... here, being part of it all is at least as good as shooting well.

[montana_charlie]

Can’t wait for the weekend to try it out, ahh but I got an invitation to a driven hunt on Saturday –
Would that be a coat & tie affair...with drillings?
CM

[1874Sharps]

Hubertus,

Waidmanns Heil und viel Glueck an der Jaegerei! Wir fahren nach Deutschland in zwei Tagen.

[montana_charlie]

That's a long drive from Corpus Christi, Texas...

[Hubertus]

Martinibelgian, ok you convinced me! Not that I am hard to convince when it comes down to something like that:razz:.
We will see – I need to develop the load first and then find the time to come. Usually August is the month of the schools and daycares are doing summer break in Bavaria. Let’s stay in contact about that, please keep me informed, as you know I am not a member of the BDMP so I will not see invitation letters and so on. I can’t promise but we’ll see.

Waidmanns Heil 1874Sharps!
Not only is it a long drive - there will be some swimming involved, too. :kidding:
I am really looking forward to meet you.


Charlie, no it is not coat & tie. That would be a formal “Treibjagd”, I read about it. Actually since we don’t have small game in huge amounts anymore, at least not in this area, this is not done so formally – it might be still done other places though.
The hunt I’ll be going to is a “Drueckjagd” (push – hunt). The hunt is for big game like stags and boar, roe deer (small game).
Usually the hunters are spread out in the morning and are sitting in stands. The beaters or “Treiber” are not doing real beating they rather move slowly and quietly through the woods with or without dogs to “push” (druecken, part of the verb is used in the noun DRUECKjagd…) game out.
The game will retreat slowly without stress, that is good for the animals as well as the quality of the venison plus it is much easier to determine the right ones to take.
Usually it lasts about 3 to 5 hours but can be longer. Normally until around noon because daylight in winter is quite short at this latitude and there might be time needed to track with dogs. There are strict safety rules – once you are in your stand you have to stay there for the full period until horn signal “Hahn in Ruh” ("hammer at rest") is given, time elapsed or radio command is given. Blaze orange is a must and you need to know the surroundings, since you are sitting quite close. It can get quite boring in case you have a bad stand and the temperature nags on you, but when you have a good stand taking several animals is not rare. Usually the day is ended with “Strecke legen und verblasen” the animals are neatly displayed on twigs of fir green surrounded by fires. Then the horn signal for every species successfully hunted is played by the horn group and every successful hunter will receive his/her “Erlegerbruch” a spray of fir green with a handshake. After that it is off to a warmer place and sitting together telling the stories of the day.
That is a more formal one with more hunters, if you are only among some friends it will be not dragged out like that – but still the hunters will adhere to the traditions.

Probably you think: “oh those crazy Germans”, but we are quite proud of the traditions involved.

Hubertus

[martinibelgian]

Hubertus,

PM sent...

[1874Sharps]

Charlie and Hubertus,

My wife and I were thinking about driving one of those new electric cars all the way from Texas to Germany, but we could not find an extension cord long enough!

The hunting traditions in Germany are most interesting! I like the part where the hunter is given a laurel and hearty handshake (that is a little pun from the movie "Blazing Saddles").

[montana_charlie]

During my 1966 to 1969 stay in Germany, I took the required course to qualify for purchasing a deer hunting permit. That introduced me to some of the 'extracurricular' traditions of hunting in Germany...beyond the actual shot. In the end, I did not buy a tag and did not schedule a hunt.

I did, however, drive down a road where a number of hunters were getting set up for a driven hunt. The forstmeister (or whoever was in charge) stopped me to explain what was happening, and asked that I proceed carefully, but quickly, on out of the lane where the hunters were being positioned.
The gun on his arm was a beauty, and it appeared to be duplicated in those carried by the others. I passed about eight hunters in a distance of perhaps one kilometer, and I am sure I drove by enough 'gun value' to easily equal my annual salary.

I think the memory of that event is what kept me from actually hunting while I was there.
I was quite concious of the fact that (we) American servicemen were 'ambassadors at large', and supposed to do everything possible to keep from embarrassing ourselves in the eyes of the locals.
I felt that it would exemplify 'the ugly American' if I showed up at an appointed meeting place in blue jeans and flannel shirt...and my best Sunday-go-to-meeting clothes weren't nearly as spiffy as the outfits those hunters were sporting.

I consoled myself with the knowledge that the Class C rey buck I would have been allowed to shoot would have been a very small deer, and I would only have been allowed to keep the 'hunter's rights' and the antlers.

CM

[Hubertus]

Charlie, sorry to hear that you had bad experience.
Well since those days the things have changed.
You still might find hunts as you described, I suppose those are getting rarer and rarer, which is good.
Around where I am hunting you will not have that. OK, some have a little more expensive equipment than others but tell me whether this is not the case in the U.S. Everybody uses what is affordable.

By the way today was more the boring freezing type.
I saw about 10 roe deer, but they had not been on the menue of the owner.
Well 5° F did the rest - after 4 hours sitting at a realy windy corner the whole thing was over. Next time :razz:

Currently it is more fun to sit in a warm place and think about the next load session and come up with recipes to try out at the next range trip.

Hubertus

[montana_charlie]

Charlie, sorry to hear that you had bad experience.
Well since those days the things have changed.
You still might find hunts as you described, I suppose those are getting rarer and rarer, which is good.
Around where I am hunting you will not have that. OK, some have a little more expensive equipment than others but tell me whether this is not the case in the U.S. Everybody uses what is affordable.

No need to appologize, Hube. There was no 'bad experience'...just a decision on my part to forego hunting.

As for your comment about what 'everybody' uses, you are the first 'common citizen' from Germany I have ever known to express any interest in hunting, or shooting.
When I was there, it seemed apparent that 'guns' was a rich man's pastime...and regular folk never thought much about it.

I am reminded of an occurrence...

In the center of Niederkail was an intersection of three streets, which functioned as the 'town square'. On one of the corners was a very nice gasthaus which had been in operation for many decades. Our apartment was on an opposite corner, so we had a view of the 'heart of the village' from our living room...and we came to be well-known by the residents.

One day I was out with a friend and his metal detector. Using my trail bike, we penetrated deeply into the forests to search for WWII stuff...or Roman stuff...or any interesting stuff.

While we were gone, some German friends came to visit. During the conversation, my wife explained where I was and (within the limitations of language difference) what I was doing. The husband, Josef, brightened up and decided I was using a 'mine detector' to look for metal.

When I got home, we talked about the hunt, and showed off the device, and my buddy headed home. After we were alone, Josef told me 'the secret' that mention of metal detecting had caused him to remember.

In this village, there were two men named Otto. One was your average German, but the other guy was very short...almost as short as a midget. So, they were called Otto, and Klein Otto.
Back during the war, Klein Otto had stolen a pistol from a German officer who had left it hanging on the coatrack, as he dined at the gasthaus.

According to Josef, Klein Otto (a young boy at the time) had run home, shoved the pistol into some 'fet', and buried it near the edge of the forest. When Josef began building a new house in the vicinity of the burial, Klein Otto shared his secret with Josef, just in case it should be found during the excavations.

Josef wondered if my friend's 'mine detector' might locate the "P-08" that Klein Otto said he had buried.

After much questioning of Klein Otto, with Josef as the go-between (I never spoke face-to-face with Klein Otto) I had a very general idea of the area where to pistol was located. Klein Otto had buried it next to a 'large tree', and cut a notch in the bark to mark it. Explosions of various sorts caused most of the trees to become 'marked' and, after thirty years, Klein Otto's memory wasn't as clear as he (or I) wished.

But, before I agreed to look for anything, I wanted to know what was expected by these 'keepers of the secret'. Did they want possession of the pistol? Did they want it located but left buried? What was the deal to be?

I was assured that nobody wanted anything to do with any stolen Wehrmacht pistol. They would only (even) talk about it in hushed tones...almost looking over their shoulders to see if anybody was listening.

So, I borrowed my buddy's detector, and went to searching with it. I checked the 'big trees' nearest to the road first, and gradually worked my way further into the woods. I found lots of stuff. Old nails, bits of discarded wire, metal junk that might have been left from the war, but unrecognizeable.

After three afternoons of looking, I had decided that I wasn't going to find this cached treasure. I was strolling down a footpath leading back to the road. Josef's son was with me, and I was just swinging the detector beside my feet, like carrying a cane...when it beeped.
Of course, I stopped to find out exactly where the signal was strongest, and got out my screwdriver to scratch in the dirt. I wasn't very close to any tree...large or small.

Loosening soil with the screwdriver and scooping it away with my hands, I dug down about six inches...finding nothing. But the signal was still strong.
With voice and motions, I asked Stefan if his Dad had a pick among his tools at the construction site. He said yes, and ran to get it.

Long story short, it was 'the secret pistol', but it was a P-38...not a Luger. It was in a large, rusted, metal can with a clamp-on lid, and inside was a metal 'fet' container mostly full of lard.
The pistol had been partially disassembled (field stripped) and the magazine removed. After wrapping all of the parts in a large rag, it was all stuffed into the lard and sealed in the two cans.

Everyone involved was pleased that it had been found, and Josef even came to my house to see it. But nobody wanted to touch it. And, I'm pretty sure that the finding of the pistol became a new 'secret' that was only known to those involved.

I got the imprssion that Klein Otto was greatly relieved to know the pistol was no longer hidden out there, waiting for it's owner to find it...and come looking for the kid who stole it.

CM

[1874Sharps]

Charlie,

Cool story! I am left a little in suspense about what was the final disposition of the pistol. Did you wind up with it? Was the pistol still in good condition?

[montana_charlie]

Was the pistol still in good condition?
If the kid had not wrapped the parts in the rag, it would probably have come through in great shape. But wherever the rag made contact, it rusted into the metal. After total disassembly, I worked on each part until it was clean. Outer surfaces (slide, barrel, trigger guard, etc.) were pitted by the rag, but interior parts looked about normal for a used pistol.

The magazine was pitted on one side, but sound enough for use.

There were five rounds in the mag, and some loose ones. Don't remember the total number. But most of them fired when I took it to the range...and fresh ammunition functioned just like it should.

I got some books on wartime P-38's and found that example was produced late in the war, at a plant where they assembled guns from parts remaining in inventory. It didn't come from the Walther factory, and there was nothing 'special' about it.

The time period for registering 'war trophies' had expired several years before I found that pistol, so that option wasn't available to me...even if the German government might have no interest in arguing over 'who owned it'.
Being of 'low interest' to collectors, and difficult for me to 'import' due to lack of documentation, I sold it to another GI who wanted it.

He was just starting his tour in Germany as I was preparing to leave, so he had at least a few years to mess with it.

If the gun had been a Luger, I would have given some serious thought to devising a way to smuggle it home, scattered in among my household stuff.

CM

[Hubertus]

Charlie, that was a good story!
Aren't you the slightest bit curious what happened to the pistol after you sold it?

Well, you are right it is not cheap to go hunting here. Especially when you have rented your own
hunting block. There are really a lot of hunters like me who can't afford this and are
relying on invitations and returning favours to the owner for the right to hunt.
It is also true that the majority of the people are quite sceptic about guns, unfortunately.
But there are more sport shooters and hunters than one might think. The legislation is making harder and harder every year, but still the sport is not dying out. At least I hope that.

Hubertus