Lyman 429303 Arrowpoint Woes

[muzzleblast]

I have a 2 cavity 429303 Arrowpoint mold that is by far the worst mold to work with that I have ever used. Bottom line: It simply refuses to turn loose of the bullets. First, I have to rap the handles pretty hard just to get the halves to separate, then literally "beat the snot" out of the handles with multiple, hard blows until both of the bullets drop. There is no rhyme or reason to the bullets sticking in the mold. Randomly, a bullet will stick in the front cavity, rear cavity, both cavities, left half, right half, both halves… Totally random. By the time I manage to get 100 bullets out of this thing, I've turned an oak mallet into a pile of splinters. This mold turns my normally enjoyable casting pastime into a frustrating, blood pressure elevating event.

Mold temperature, cold or hot, doesn't seem to matter much. I've tried 4 or 5 different sets of handles on the mold with no change in results. The mold opens and closes fine until I start putting lead in it. Then it gets hard to open. Not sure if this is a mold expansion issue or a "bullets gluing the halves together" issue. Alignment pins and holes seem to be fine. I've been considering trying some "nut cracker" 4 cavity handles, but would likely have to remove the mold from the handles before I could open it! Don't want to have to resort to using 4 cavity handles on a 2 cavity mold anyway. The bigger issue if that the bullets won't drop from the cavities after the halves are opened.

Alloy, straight WW or WW with up to 4% of tin… same results. It is a "seasoned" mold. I can be running right along in a casting session, making piles of boolits with other molds, then pick this one up and production output grinds to a halt. I have tried using it by itself as well as the "casting with two alternating molds technique." Smoking the cavities doesn't seem to help much. Copious amounts of cussing doesn't seem to help, either.

I have examined the cavities using a magnifying glass and find no burrs, dents or dings, no unusual tool marks, or other such impairments to bullet drop. I have not lapped it but that would seem to be a logical next step even though I find no reason it should need lapping.

I am thinking the root of the problem might be the VERY deep grease grooves of this design?

This is the only 429303 mold I have used. I would be interested in any comments from others who have cast with this design. Is the sticking problem typical? Or, might there be something I have overlooked going on with my particular mold? Any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated.

[45 2.1]

I have a 2 cavity 429303 Arrowpoint mold that is by far the worst mold to work with that I have ever used. Bottom line: It simply refuses to turn loose of the bullets. First, I have to rap the handles pretty hard just to get the halves to separate, then literally "beat the snot" out of the handles with multiple, hard blows until both of the bullets drop. Sounds like your alloy and mold are too hot. Adjust your alloy temperature until the sprue freeze time is about four seconds. Use a fan to cool the mold, dump the boolit and let the blocks stay under the fan for two or three seconds, then refill and repeat. There is no rhyme or reason to the bullets sticking in the mold. Randomly, a bullet will stick in the front cavity, rear cavity, both cavities, left half, right half, both halves… Totally random. By the time I manage to get 100 bullets out of this thing, I've turned an oak mallet into a pile of splinters. This mold turns my normally enjoyable casting pastime into a frustrating, blood pressure elevating event.

Mold temperature, cold or hot, doesn't seem to matter much. Mold needs to be hot already, not warmed by casting. I've tried 4 or 5 different sets of handles on the mold with no change in results. The mold opens and closes fine until I start putting lead in it. Then it gets hard to open. Not sure if this is a mold expansion issue or a "bullets gluing the halves together" issue. Alignment pins and holes seem to be fine. I've been considering trying some "nut cracker" 4 cavity handles, but would likely have to remove the mold from the handles before I could open it! Don't want to have to resort to using 4 cavity handles on a 2 cavity mold anyway. The bigger issue if that the bullets won't drop from the cavities after the halves are opened.

Alloy, straight WW or WW with up to 4% of tin Way to much Tin, straight WW will work fine.… same results. It is a "seasoned" mold. I can be running right along in a casting session, making piles of boolits with other molds, then pick this one up and production output grinds to a halt. I have tried using it by itself as well as the "casting with two alternating molds technique." Smoking the cavities doesn't seem to help much. Copious amounts of cussing doesn't seem to help, either.

I have examined the cavities using a magnifying glass and find no burrs, dents or dings, no unusual tool marks, or other such impairments to bullet drop. I have not lapped it but that would seem to be a logical next step even though I find no reason it should need lapping.

I am thinking the root of the problem might be the VERY deep grease grooves of this design?

This is the only 429303 mold I have used. I would be interested in any comments from others who have cast with this design. Is the sticking problem typical? Or, might there be something I have overlooked going on with my particular mold? Any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated.

This mold doesn't release easily until the boolit cools down some. A fan is a great help here.

[Bret4207]

Also- read the Leementing stickies and take a gander at your mould. A few burrs here and there can play havoc with clean release. The mechanics are the same for an iron mould as for a Lee aluminum.

[frank505]

I got a used one several years ago, seems to cast ok. I really havent done much work with it, cast some for an old friend that wanted to mess with them.
The bullets drop out of the mold, when I get healed up and can cast I'll try it again just to see. Maybe you need to borrow it if you really love this bullet , I fail to see the advantage over a 250 to 300 grain Keith. Of course I am tainted by experience..........................

[Poygan]

I have the same mold and have experienced the same problem. What has worked best for me is to change alloy from ww to pure lead. The additional shrinkage allowed the boolets to drop fairly well. I same to the same conclusion - the loob groves are the problem. With the addition of a gas check, I could shoot them at moderate velocities without leading. It is the leading contender for my least favorite mold....

[Mk42gunner]

I just looked at this bullet on castpics; my immediate thought was the deep and narrow lube grooves were causing your problems. That is if the picture accurately portrays the bullet.


Robert

[HeavyMetal]

I have had an original 429303 and, as you may have guessed, getting them out of the mold was the hardest darn thing to do!

Came to the same conclusion: Lube grooves were the problem. Very deep and square! Without some type of angle the didn't get any "spring back" when cooled.

Lost the mold in a garage theft 20 yrs ago. Replaced it with an NEI mold of the same design but slightly heavier. Not as hard to get these to drop but harder than any other mold I have.

Got in on the pointed SWC ran last yr and got a 357 and a pair of 44"s Design changes we discussed fixed this problem. Due to having to work much more hours to keep up with the failing economy I have not had a chance to shoot either.

By the way I also have a 357 version of the 429303 and it has the same problem.

Some day I'll print up the article I have in a very old lyman reloading manual showing some real wild stuff using the 429303 cast with Lino, very impressive!

[Guesser]

That bullet is a very deep penetrator, The lube grooves are deep and hold a lot of lube, I have run it well over 1500 from a carbine, single loading, of course. Seems to be as accurate as I can shoot, but does require a learned finesse to work the mold, don't hurry. Today would be a good day to work with a cooler mold, its -24 F out there right now.

[Shuz]

I had the 429303 mould in a 2C that had the gc shank removed and a 4C that was "stock". Both were the most difficult moulds I've ever cast with in over 45 years! More importantly, the boolits from either mould didn't shoot worth sour owl manure in a host of .44 mag revolvers! You nailed it on the design being the cause of the dropping problem. The best aspect of that design is the 303 Lyman lubrisizer top punch that I still use on a bunch of other designs!! I felt good ,albeit somewhat guilty, when I sold both moulds.

[Bret4207]

I got mine just out of curiosity, thought I might use it as a small game boolit. I still haven't shot it.

[beagle]

The 429303 as has been mentioned was designed as a high speed penetrator. Shot at high speed they do all right but not worth the effort in my opinion. The deep lube grooves are the cause of the tendency to stick in the mould as they are way on the overkill side for normal velocties as far as lube quantity was concerned.

I started out with the mould Shuz had and it wouldn't shoot for me so he wanted to mess with it.

I was testing some in my M94 at 100 yards and actually got big lube "boogers" on the target face and I mean a bunch of them. This can't be good for accracy what with shedding that much weight in flight.

I was able to get acceptable accuracy but nothing to write home about by seating them out a bit. I'f you'll check Lyman's load tables and go with their OAL, you'll see what I mean. Just doesn't make for a very good looking bullet to carry around in your pocket.

I was able to improve the "dropability" by using spray moly on the cavities, letting it dry and then polishing with a soft pine stick to remove the excess moly but it never did get to the point where it dropped them easily.

Just the nature of the beast./beagle

[Bent Ramrod]

The 429303 was designed by Carl Hudson, who named it the "Hi-Velo-Pen," and wrote it up in the first Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook. He claimed penetration through 3/16" steel plates when made of Ideal No. 2 or 10:1 lead:tin. This was with a .44 Magnum, the powder charge being either 26.5 or 27.5 gr of 2400, which seems pretty stiff to me. Doesn't say what he shot it in. He said it was also good for target use in .44 Magnum or Special with 4 or 5 grains of Bullseye. In this case the gun was a .44 Magnum Ruger Blackhawk.

I've tried it a few times in my .44 Spl (not heavily loaded) and it's never been particularly accurate. I wonder if the deep grease groove doesn't allow the boolit to slump to one side or the other when it goes through the throat into the barrel. Or it may be the excessive amount of grease causing unbalance as Beagle says.

[Freightman]

Seems like a canadate for expermenting wit lapping or any other weird thing you can think up. Wouldn't want to sell it to an ususpecting person.

[beagle]

I considered reaming the mould cavity to remove some of the groove depth but never did. I think that would cast better and probably shoot better as well. It would probably pick up a few grains in weight but what the heck./beagle

[happy7]

I have had five of the 429303 molds (still have four) and two of the 35893 molds. While I have not shot them a lot, the ones I did shoot were VERY accurate for me. The 35893 is the most accurate bullet I have shot out of my dan wesson with groups of about 1 inch at 25 yards. Go figure. I have not tried them at ranges in excess of 25 yards.

To the point of the question. None of the molds released like a 452374. As others have said it is the deep lube grooves. Also, the molds vary considerably in design of the lube grooves and bands. Although all grooves are about the same depth, width and angle do vary. Some of the molds did not cast that bad without me doing anything to them, but all but one of them was used, so they were seasoned. One 4 cav 429303 was particularly obnoxious and I actually bent a pair of four cavity handles trying to beat the bullets out. Bent it the hard way that is, against the width of the metal. It was the old style nut crackers and the mold half was hanging from the handle. I had to beat on the back of the handle and bent it through the width of the handle where the screw was drilled.

Anyway this particular mold got the lapping treatment using dremel brand polishing paste, and this did produce a marked improvement. Bullets still do not drop from the mold with out some encouragement, but the handles are now in no danger of being bent and while I cannot speed cast with it, it is not difficult to cast with anymore.

[sagacious]

I have a 429303 that drops easily. As far as I am aware, that design was intended to be cast with linotype, as specified in the Lyman manuals that list recipes for that bullet. If you can get it, linotype might end your problems.

I haved also sprayed the cavities with a drying moly lube, and the castings pop right out without any difficulty. I didn't even cast with it before moly-coating, as I could envision how that mold design might be prone to stuck castings. With a sub-max load of BlueDot, that bullet shoots great from my Ruger M77/44.

Best of luck! :drinks: