RCBS Cast Bullet Question

[Chili]

After casting (from WW) and sizing to.454 several hundred RCBS Keith bullets in 45 caliber, I noticed I can not drop or push them through the cylinder of my Ruger Blackhawk. The throats measure between .454 and .457.

My concern is the pressure is going to be too high loaded over 8.5grs of Unique sparked by a Federal large pistol primer. Is this a true concern or should I shoot and enjoy?

Thanks!

Chili

[StarMetal]

After casting (from WW) and sizing to.454 several hundred RCBS Keith bullets in 45 caliber, I noticed I can not drop or push them through the cylinder of my Ruger Blackhawk. The throats measure between .454 and .457.

My concern is the pressure is going to be too high loaded over 8.5grs of Unique sparked by a Federal large pistol primer. Is this a true concern or should I shoot and enjoy?

Thanks!

Chili

Shoot and enjoy.

Joe

[9.3X62AL]

Shoot and enjoy.

In a Ruger, no worries. What Joe said.

[Chili]

That is what I was thinking/hoping.

If all goes as planned, I should be able to shoot these over the chronograph this weekend.

Thanks. Though I am not new to reloading, I am new to casting (about 1 year) so all of the lead bullets I bought were store bought.

Great site!

[Pepe Ray]

Before you load up a Bunch--
Load one and check if it will chamber. You've not mentioned any thing about sizing etc,
Pepe Ray

[pdawg_shooter]

Throats vary from .454 to .457? Yup, sounds like a Ruger!

[Bucks Owin]

Throats vary from .454 to .457? Yup, sounds like a Ruger! Mine measure .456" and will it group under 1.5" @ 25 yds. Yep, sounds like a Ruger!....Dennis [smilie=p:

[Chili]

Pepe Ray--Sizing info was in was mentioned in the first line.

I did make a seating dummy and then tried about 1/2 of them in the cylinder after it was pulled.

Rugers, yeah..... factory cast does not group too well as they measure .452. Hopefully I can test these this Sunday over the chrono.

Thanks for the advice.

Chili

[MT Gianni]

Throats vary from .454 to .457? Yup, sounds like a Ruger!

Lucky you, mine were .448-.451.

[machinisttx]

Lucky you, mine were .448-.451.

The throats on my blackhawk were around .450" IIRC. Too small is far better than too big since you can always take more metal out. Kinda tough to put it back in though.

[Chili]

The throats on my blackhawk were around .450" IIRC. Too small is far better than too big since you can always take more metal out. Kinda tough to put it back in though.

I wish the throats on mine were that small.

[Chili]

I made it out to the range yesterday to test these bullets. I used my 4 5/8" Blackhawk and my 5 1/2" Vaquero.

Load info:
45 Colt
8.6grs Unique
275gr LSWC from RCBS 45-270SAA mould cast with WW dropped in water, lubed with Lyman's alox; sized to .454
Fed 100 primer
Starline case
target at 15yds

Blackhawk:
Low: 866.5fps
High: 931.8fps
Avg: 912.5fps
ES: 65.30
SD: 18.78
Avg group: 3 inches

Vaquero:
Low: 924.3fps
High: 962.0fps
Avg: 949.8fps
ES: 37.76
SD: 14.52
Avg group: 3.5 inches

It was a fun experiment despite the temp in the mid-40's and a misty rain. Best of all, there was no leading at these velocities. My target speed was 900fps +/-. I think I am going to load another batch at 8.6grs of Unique, one at 9.0grs and one at 8.0grs and check for velocity and accuracy.

Just thought ya'll might be interested in this range report.

[machinisttx]

I wish the throats on mine were that small.

I honed mine out on a Sunnen honing machine. A .452" gage pin will slide in now, but a .453" won't.

[Chili]

I honed mine out on a Sunnen honing machine. A .452" gage pin will slide in now, but a .453" won't.

That is why I wish mine were that small.

[Dale53]

My Bisley Vaquero 5½" had .451" throats and my recently acquired Bisley SS .45 Colt/.45 ACP Convertible was also .451". I reamed them both (along with the .450" .45 ACP cylinder) with a Manson Reamer kit at .4525".

I am extremely happy with the results. In fact, the results are so good, that I will not trade these revolvers, PERIOD. They are here to stay.

Dale53

[Bucks Owin]

I wish the throats on mine were that small.
Me too, and in a perfect world all Blackhawks would have nice tight "Linebaugh" dimensions and be built like a Freedom Arms that cost 3 or 4 times as much. HOWEVER, these "fat throated" Rugers can still shoot better than most once a month shooters can, so don't get discouraged. BTW, tight groups with handguns is NOT easy, despite what you read, good shooting is easy with a keyboard! My .45 BH example is about norm for a "bad" .45 Blackhawk. It has .456" throats (on average) and big sloppy charge holes that smoke the cases badly at SAAMI pressures. It's .452" barrel has plenty of machining marks. It's front sight lists to starboard slightly. I was bummed to say the least when I got it at auction for $275 from a Gunbroker auction, even though the 35 yr old sixgun looks mint. But it can still hit a hummingbird at 25 yds using factory ammo if I do my part. Don't convince yourself that your gun won't shoot because it doesn't have perfect throats/cone/barrel. If throats are too small, you're in luck. Ream to .4525" and be happy. If too large, you can still use a 454" boolit and get fine results. John Linebaugh has fired hundreds of .45 BH's and that is what works. He claims most ANY .45 BH will shoot 1.5" with the right bullet and I expect he's right. Just burn enough powder to become proficient! :wink: Here is a group from my sloppy BH and factory 225 gr WW Silvertips. Any of 5 rds would have tagged aforementioned hummingbird, so don't trade off a .45 BH over it's generous throats if that's a concern.(please excuse lousy photo) : http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a356/BucksOwin/003.jpg

[Chili]

I hear you about a perfect world. My original post was about being concerned with too much pressure from the .454 bullets. With commercial cast bullets at.452, it would print a 5 or 6 inch pattern with the same charge of 8.6grs of Unique. So to go from those groups to about 1/2 the size is definite progress. I will tinker around with some Blue Dot and other charges of Unique. Maybe a few others if there are some suggestions.

Fortunately, I live in the real world and have no delusions of grandeur. I think it was Jeff Cooper who once said (paraphrasing) "It's not what you once did, but what you can produce on demand."

[Bucks Owin]

I hear you about a perfect world. My original post was about being concerned with too much pressure from the .454 bullets. With commercial cast bullets at.452, it would print a 5 or 6 inch pattern with the same charge of 8.6grs of Unique. So to go from those groups to about 1/2 the size is definite progress. I will tinker around with some Blue Dot and other charges of Unique. Maybe a few others if there are some suggestions.

Fortunately, I live in the real world and have no delusions of grandeur. I think it was Jeff Cooper who once said (paraphrasing) "It's not what you once did, but what you can produce on demand." You'll have no pressure problem with that load. I've used 10 grs UNQ/255 gr and still have all my digits...:) Dennis (You may find your groups will shrink if you hit that .454" boolit hard enough to bump it in you large throats...)

[Chili]

Bucks Owin-- Do you think a load of 950-1000fps would be sufficient for the above purpose?

[bigboredad]

chili
don't stress over the pressure of a .454 sized boolit there are lots of .45 shooters that prefer them in there guns and I am one of them. The fact that you are getting no leading means you are on the right track and have half the battle licked. My favorite boolit out of my two blackhawks is a 340 grain boolit cast from wheel weights air cooled and pan lubed or lla doesn't make a difference it is still a nice shooting boolit. Forget all you've read about your ruger not being able to shoot with the size of those throats just shoot and enjoy

[Bucks Owin]

Bucks Owin-- Do you think a load of 950-1000fps would be sufficient for the above purpose? Depends on the powder. I don't like fast burners in the big Colt case though some use them as routine. I like 13-14 grs of HS-6 with a .454" 255 lead Hornady "cowboy" bullet for instance. Put's it into the 1100+ fps range (1160 w/14.0) and accuracy better than my UNQ loads at 950-1000. I wouldn't go higher personally with a swaged boolit. (This is getting to Linebaugh territory as to pressures not SAAMI .45 Colt BTW) Probably when your cases aren't getting blackened when fired you'll be in the right neighborhood*! [smilie=p: JMO....Dennis (*Yes, the "chambers" are too damn big too, not just the throats!)

[Chili]

Depends on the powder. I don't like fast burners in the big Colt case though some use them as routine. I like 13-14 grs of HS-6 with a .454" 255 lead Hornady "cowboy" bullet for instance. Put's it into the 1100+ fps range (1160 w/14.0) and accuracy better than my UNQ loads at 950-1000. I wouldn't go higher personally with a swaged boolit. (This is getting to Linebaugh territory as to pressures not SAAMI .45 Colt BTW) Probably when your cases aren't getting blackened when fired you'll be in the right neighborhood*! [smilie=p: JMO....Dennis (*Yes, the "chambers" are too damn big too, not just the throats!)

I don't care for fast powders in large cases either. I was looking at Unique, Blue Dot or maybe 2400 as a last resort.

Chili:D