Primer wads

[jackley]

How many of you guys use them? And do you really think they make a difference? What type of paper do you use?

Jerry

[Kenny Wasserburger]

I use them,

On a good load they can cut ES and SD in half, this means a lot at Long Range in my opinion.

I seem to do ok using them.

KW
The Lunger

[John Boy]

Jerry, I use them too. Why?
* Because it reduces the brisance ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brisance
Google ... The_Modern_Sportsman_s_Gun_and_Rifle, digital page 114 and read the why's that were identified back in the 1800's. Back then, the term that was used was brisante
* There were to be purchased primers for blackpowder only up until the advent of Semi Smokeless and Smokeless powders. Then the BP primers which reduced brisance were dropped from production. So, now primer wads in the pocket and over the primer hole are being used as an alternative to reduce the igintion shock wave

Wads are used by many BPRC long range shooters. Examples are: newspaper - construction paper - cigarette paper - ashless filter paper - aluminum foil, etc and I have even tried dental XRay backing paper (don't try it). For starters, you may want to try 2 layers of construction paper

Kenny's post is factual and I concur but have never done a chronographing test with and without to prove the exact reduction ... but will still continue to load using them because ES and SD's are reduced with primer wads ... impact on reducing brisance

[Don McDowell]

I use them,

On a good load they can cut ES and SD in half, this means a lot at Long Range in my opinion.

I seem to do ok using them.

KW
The Lunger

:kidding: Yeh but Kenny you only got 187 posts......:p

Am wondering tho have you guys that use the primer wads run them tested against just using a pistol primer?

[Southern Son]

I have used them and they did help with ES and SD. I used newspaper. The last time I went to clean my cases, though, I did find the remains of the paper in the bottom of the case. I had not noticed it before and am a loss as to why it happened last time. It was a PITA getting it out of 150 cases. I did consider trying Large Pistol primers, but I have heard of damage to the face of the breach block around the firing pin hole due to the thinner LP primer being "set back" on firing. Has anyone who has tried LP primers encountered that?

[Hip's Ax]

My shooting buddy and I use 40 cal newspaper wads in our 45-70 and 45-90 loads. Using this over primer wad in our black powder ammo cut group size significantly.

[Boz330]

I use 2 layers of news print. Started with 1 layer. I haven't done extensive chrono work but the primer wads definitely shrunk the group size and the 2nd layer even more. Haven't gotten around to 3 yet. My High wall likes the pistol primers, but my Ballard has the large firing pin and the primers flow real bad and almost pierce so I have to use Br-2s in it. I haven't talked to anyone that hasn't had good luck from some sort of primer wad.

Bob

[Kenny Wasserburger]

Don

your right of course: maybe someday[smilie=1: I can win a national Championship in Long range, set world records, maybe even beat Doc Lay, Mike Rix, Dave Gullo at a yard line and win it at a Regional?:roll: Might even get me some of them Gold Medals at Nationals?:roll::twisted:

Till then I recon I just have to keep trying?[smilie=1::drinks::mrgreen:

:violin:[smilie=l:


The Lunger
KW

PS

I use Tracing paper for Primer wads, another excellent paper is::::: Paper Cartridge paper to make the cartridges for the 1863's.:brokenima

[Don McDowell]

:-P Kenny I figure that'ld make you sit up and spit :holysheep

Anyways I think it would be interesting test if someone such as yourself that uses the op/flashole wads and has credible accuracy claims, would just substitute pistol primers and run accuracy and sd/es tests....

Got to thinking about the primer thing the other day, reading some Winchester smokeless load data from the 1890's. They stated not to use black powder primers in smokeless loads as they wouldn't ignite the smokeless powder....
So that gets me to thinking are we driving our bp with to much primer :?:

Leadpot you readin this??????

[John Boy]

They stated not to use black powder primers in smokeless loads as they wouldn't ignite the smokeless powder....
Don, that was the demise of black powder primers! Somewhere on Shiloh, I posted pictures of several brands of primers ... they look like flame throwers. The only primers that had a small flame are the small rifles and this WW LR ...
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd220/Meadowmucker/Misc/GASWWLR.jpg

[Don McDowell]

John I've worked up some razzledazzle loads in the 45-70 using cci 350's, that I had laying around for years. I haven't bothered the chrony with them, but if I do my part it'll throw five thru the same hole at 270 yds. That's the load I was shooting at the Q when I cleaned the 380 yd diamond, Marcus said he didn't think the group would of been any bigger than his fist, and then again at the Sagebrush and Medicine Rocks shoot I managed a couple of really good targets.

Biggest problem now I'm out of those primers so need to go with some new lp's when I can get ahold of some, and see what happens.

[cajun shooter]

I was going to ask Kenny about the paper he used and he was nice enough to share that info. Tracing paper will not be hard to find as my wife and I have a home design drafting business. Thanks Kenny, do you cut them with a hammer punch? I see where BACO sells the 460 size. Or maybe Harlen at Sage. Later David

[Lead pot]

Don.
I use .45 cal wads cut from Cheerio boxes for the .50.

[Pepe Ray]

I guess that you could call me an "Old Nooby".
Certainly ,the subject of "primer wads" is new to me.
I'm envisioning two different approaches here. Please redirect me.

1. Placing a sheet of some chosen paper over the base of a cartridge before seating a primer into the pocket.
Or
2. Cutting a wad from the paper in a diameter to just fit snugly INTO the cartridge, over the flash hole ,BEFORE the powder is dropped.

Also, is this technique designated for Black Powder Only?
Thanks for clearing this up.
Pepe Ray

[August]

I became aware of this practice from the posts that Kenny has made here, and about.

I started with the often heard recommendation of using magnum primers.

Switched to pistol primers and over primer wads. S.D. went to single digits.

I'm a believer and grateful to Kenny for sharing this idea with the rest of us.

[montana_charlie]

2. Cutting a wad from the paper in a diameter to just fit snugly INTO the cartridge, over the flash hole ,BEFORE the powder is dropped.

That is one of the methods used, but the wad can be smaller than 'snug'.
The diameter of the web, down inside the head of a 45/70 case, is only about .390".

A wad that lays flat in that circle would be 'self-centering' when it falls into place.
CM

[Kenny Wasserburger]

I use a 45 cal punch same I use to make OP wads, Press mounted.

KW
The Lunger

[John Boy]

Biggest problem now I'm out of those primers so need to go with some new lp's when I can get ahold of some, and see what happens.
Don, give the Federal 155M's (Large Magnum Pistol Match) a try. Used them when I went dry of the 150M's and found no difference with accuracy

Don't know for sure, but since CCI and Federal are both owned by ATK, would think the 350's and 155M's would be the same

[Southern Son]

Kenny, when you use the tracing paper, is there anything left in the bottom of the case after you fire it, and if so, how difficult is it to get out? I was thinking of getting a wad punch for .40calibre (or smaller) as many others are doing, but since you are getting your results with the .45 patch, I might not bother just yet (won't help my shooting, but it won't hurt either).

[rk4570]

I have cut wads from newspaper and use the primer to cut them when its installed with an RCBS Bench Mounted primer tool. Its a little slower putting the wad in the shell holder but it does give very good results over the chrono. Its just getting better results on the target that gives me a hard time!...:violin:...

[Baron von Trollwhack]

For my 45-70 & 45-60 I use a hammer driven cheap chinese 3/8" punch on 1/2" wide strips of newspaper, ten at a time. A lead ingot is used as a anvil. In loading I throw some on the bench to spread them singly and just pick one up and drop it into the case. Self-centering. Then load the cartridge as usual. They do give better performance. Now for the steering part !

BvT