sweed mauser 6x55 ?

[lonewolf5347]

I have a bug for a swede Mauser but I did some reading on them and Like to ask what were the best years to look into ?
I see some had 29" barrel other 23.5
I here a guy that has one he want to sell 1906 Carl Gustafs model straight bolt I am not sure on the barrel length
any info would be helpful

[StarMetal]

I have a bug for a swede Mauser but I did some reading on them and Like to ask what were the best years to look into ?
I see some had 29" barrel other 23.5
I here a guy that has one he want to sell 1906 Carl Gustafs model straight bolt I am not sure on the barrel length
any info would be helpful

I'd bet that rifle more then likely has the 29 inch barrel. Fine rifle. The M 38 are the short rifles. Generally they have a bent down bolt but the early ones had straight bolts. In my opinion they are all finely built rifles whether a Gustaf or Husky.

Joe

[Dutchman]

I have a bug for a swede Mauser but I did some reading on them and Like to ask what were the best years to look into ?
I see some had 29" barrel other 23.5
I here a guy that has one he want to sell 1906 Carl Gustafs model straight bolt I am not sure on the barrel length
any info would be helpful

There are no best years as far as quality goes. There are no bad years, either.

I could sit here for hours on just the m/96 but most of it probably wouldn't be of interest to you (plus I don't want to sit here for hours). Look through and read all the pages below and then come back with questions. I'll deal with specific questions but try not to generalize too much.

Read this:
"Assessing a rifle for potential purchase & Hierarchy of collectibility - m/96 rifles"
http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?t=123128


Pay particular attention to:

Wood-to-metal fit - 1896 Swedish Mauser
http://dutchman.rebooty.com/wood_to_metal.html

Photo Study of a Carl Gustaf m/96
manufactured in 1919
http://dutchman.rebooty.com/foto_study.html

Oberndorf FrankenSweden 1900
http://dutchman.rebooty.com/ObieWanFrankenSwede.html

Is this a nice rifle?
Carl Gustaf m/1896 mfg 1905... or so it appears.
http://dutchman.rebooty.com/CG1905.html

Dutch

[1874Sharps]

Dutchman,

You are right and dashing as ever in your Renaisance outfit (does it get a bit cold in the winter wearing that breastplate?). The Swedish steel of that era was reknown as some of the best in the world and the workmanship on those rifles was second to none when compared to other contemporary mil rifles. Perhaps the quality was due in part to the fact that Sweden was not at war during production of its rifles, so there was no rush to crank them out. I am glad I bought one years ago when they were inexpensive. If you do not have one now, grab one before the price goes up!

[StarMetal]

Dutchman,

You are right and dashing as ever in your Renaisance outfit (does it get a bit cold in the winter wearing that breastplate?). The Swedish steel of that era was reknown as some of the best in the world and the workmanship on those rifles was second to none when compared to other contemporary mil rifles. Perhaps the quality was due in part to the fact that Sweden was not at war during production of its rifles, so there was no rush to crank them out. I am glad I bought one years ago when they were inexpensive. If you do not have one now, grab one before the price goes up!

The Persian Mauser will give a Swede a run for it's money in workmanship.

Joe

[462]

Been tinkering with a 1901 M-96. For sure, it's a well made rifle, but I have to say that the Swiss K-31 has an edge in the as-issued accuracy and trigger departments. The addition of a a Timney trigger substantially improved the Swede's performance, however.

Trigger time will improve my performance, with both of them.

[JSH]

If you are planning on running a steady diet of CB's, you may as well start looking for a mould. My 96 shoot(140) exceptionally well at 100m, but it pics the twist up after that and goes haywire.

[lonewolf5347]

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a380/lonewolf5347/disc1-1.jpg
I did check the gun to day the above was the brass disc with the red mark I marked it
I also found the rear top of the action was milled for what I have no idea.The gun itself had excellent wood a little on the dark bore side ,bluing good all matching numbers except the 2 front barrel bands.The butt plate had the same numbers as the bolt action floor plate.
carl custafs
1907 genvarseaktori
29" barrel

[doubs43]

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a380/lonewolf5347/disc1-1.jpg
I did check the gun to day the above was the brass disc with the red mark I marked it
I also found the rear top of the action was milled for what I have no idea.The gun itself had excellent wood a little on the dark bore side ,bluing good all matching numbers except the 2 front barrel bands.The butt plate had the same numbers as the bolt action floor plate.
carl custafs
1907 genvarseaktori
29" barrel

As I read the disk - and someone may correct me - the rifle has a #1 bore which is the best possible. I'm GUESSING that the red marks indicate insignificant wear (6.46 + 9 = approx. .0008" wear of the bore marking above it of 6.51 + 2) but still rates a bore condition 1 as indicated by the red mark.

Some of the 1896 Swedes were modified to take competition sights and if the milled area of the receiver has two or more screw holes, that's likely for a sight that has been removed. I have one with the sights still mounted.

While I agree with the Dutchman that there are no bad years for the Swedes, I respectfully disagree that all are of equality when it comes to the exterior finish. I've seen varying degrees of machine marks on the receivers with some rougher than others. The M-38's are converted M-96 rifles. The later M-41 rifles made by Husqvarna are generally much rougher on the exterior than the Carl Gustaf M-96's.

Try to find one that hasn't been threaded at the muzzle. Also, some years are more difficult to find than others. For instance, I have a 1923 that I'm told is not a common year. In addition, it's marked with the Finn Army stamp SA in a square. It went to Finland at some point but it's condition suggests it wasn't used as it's in excellent condition and all matching.

However, where it matters, all Swedes will be fit and polished exquisitely. As a rule the Swedes are among the very best military rifles ever made by anyone.

If the disk markings on the rifle you're looking to buy are correct, it should be a real shooter!

[6.5 mike]

The swedes used the same steel alloy for all production runs including the ones built by mauser. Reckon if it ain't broke don't fix it. Does say something about Swedish steels.

[Dutchman]

The Persian Mauser will give a Swede a run for it's money in workmanship.


I own an upper end Czech Persian 98/29. I've heard this statement before, Joe:). But the fact is the quality of fit & finish of the Czech Persian is subpar with un-rebuilt Carl Gustaf m/96 and way subpar to Ludwig Loewe-built rifles of any kind. I should do a photo comparison of my 1891 Argentine and the Persian to show the differences. Since I don't own a Swede that is in...oops... yes I do.. the 1905 Gustaf is unrebuilt. I could use that one. The details that I'll point out are of "fit & finish". The strength and mechanical integrity of Czech rifles is 2nd to none, IMO.

Dutch

[Dutchman]

Dutchman,

You are right and dashing as ever in your Renaisance outfit (does it get a bit cold in the winter wearing that breastplate?).


You've been peeking again, you naughty Texican!

Or you've been peeking on the wrong Dutchman......?

[Dutchman]

Been tinkering with a 1901 M-96. For sure, it's a well made rifle, but I have to say that the Swiss K-31 has an edge in the as-issued accuracy and trigger departments. The addition of a a Timney trigger substantially improved the Swede's performance, however.

Trigger time will improve my performance, with both of them.

I'll agree with the superior Swiss crisp trigger assessment but check the top ten rifles at the Camp Perry matches for the last 5 or 6 years and you'll find the K31 struggling to keep up with the Swedes.

Dutch

[Dutchman]

I did check the gun to day the above was the brass disc with the red mark I marked it
I also found the rear top of the action was milled for what I have no idea.The gun itself had excellent wood a little on the dark bore side ,bluing good all matching numbers except the 2 front barrel bands.The butt plate had the same numbers as the bolt action floor plate.
carl custafs
1907 genvarseaktori
29" barrel

The rear bridge, if it was milled cross-ways, is for the GF diopter sight. That's the only diopter sight that requires a narrow slot for clearance of the bottom of the elevation mechanism. The GF is a neat sight but it isn't inexpensive nor is it easy to find and when it is found available you'll have to pay the price because if you won't somebody else will. The market for original Swedish diopter sights is very stiff.
http://dutchman.rebooty.com/targetsights.html

Mis-match barrel bands are not unusual for rifles having had new barrels as in the later years at Carl Gustaf the matching of numbered parts, that weren't conductive to function, wasn't as important. Rear sight ladders are also found mis-matched for the same reason.

Dutch

[doubs43]

My "target" M-96 has the Elit-M rear sight and the hooded front sight.

[higgins]

Since you say the bore is a little on the dark side, you have encountered the fallacy of relying on what is stamped on the stock disc. A disc marked "1" might have minor signs of rust or wear, but even one marked "3" should not be dark. Even if the disc is original to the rifle, and some are not, it denotes barrel condition the last time it was inspected by a Swedish armorer. Since then, it could have been fired extensively, rusted because of not being cleaned properly, damaged by improper cleaning, etc. The only way to know for sure about bore condition is to look at a clean dry bore from both ends, paying close attention to the condition of the muzzle. Overall, I don't think you would be disappointed with a Swede, assuming the bore is in fack OK.

[Dutchman]

As I read the disk - and someone may correct me - the rifle has a #1 bore which is the best possible.

When it was last checked.... which was? 1979? In 2009 the disc can't be read as if it were still an accurate recording of the bore.



I'm GUESSING that the red marks indicate insignificant wear (6.46 + 9 = approx. .0008" wear of the bore marking above it of 6.51 + 2) but still rates a bore condition 1 as indicated by the red mark.

The red marks he indicated show 6.49mm. Its not 6.46 + 9. Its just 6.49mm. That's a tight bore. Like a new barrel going by just that single number. That's a good number.



While I agree with the Dutchman that there are no bad years for the Swedes, I respectfully disagree that all are of equality when it comes to the exterior finish. I've seen varying degrees of machine marks on the receivers with some rougher than others. The M-38's are converted M-96 rifles. The later M-41 rifles made by Husqvarna are generally much rougher on the exterior than the Carl Gustaf M-96's.

The Husqvarna m/38 rifles do exhibit a rougher (relative term) finish than Carl Gustaf m/96. What I neglected to say, and why my website has no Husqvarna m/38 on it, is that HVA m/38 rifles are not built by the gov't. armory at Carl Gustaf. The Husqvarna rifles are *contract* rifles. I simply don't count the HVA m/38 as being in the same class as the m/96 or m/94 carbine. And I wouldn't say "much rougher". But if you look close they are "noticeably" rougher, rougher being a term used loosely in this case. The HVA m/38 rifles demand some very high market values for rifles in upper end condition. I sold mine a while back for $400. Now it would fetch $550+, which has nothing to do with anything except collectability and market demand.

Husqvarna made some m/96, not m/41. The m/41 is a sniper rifle. The converted m/96 to m/38 are and the Husqvarna m/38 are all lumped together. There is no official designation of m/96-38, though I used to use the term myself to distinguish between the two types of m/38.



Try to find one that hasn't been threaded at the muzzle.

Not such a simple feat, I'm afraid. We're pretty much stuck with these threaded muzzles. While not all have them, the great majority are threaded. Don't pass up an otherwise nice rifle because of the muzzle being threaded. That would be akin to shooting one's self in one's own foot.



Also, some years are more difficult to find than others. For instance, I have a 1923 that I'm told is not a common year.

Various years of production do vary, true. Rifles mfg in 1898 for example. And yes, 1923 was low production but it was near the end of production in 1925. Some people hunt rifles based on these years of production and for the most part I disagree with them being worth more since production commenced with s/n 1 and ran consecutively to the end of production I don't see it as a big deal. The exception to that rule would be first year production and maybe last year production.

But saying 1923 is not a common year suggests its something special or more desirable to a collector. I suppose if you have a number fetish it might be. I think its a false nitch but that's just me.


it's marked with the Finn Army stamp SA in a square. It went to Finland at some point but it's condition suggests it wasn't used as it's in excellent condition and all matching.

About/over 77,000 m/96 went to the Finnish army to help kill Russians, who the Finns were dropping like ducks in the proverbial pond. The condition, today, of your rifle doesn't reflect any use in Finland or Sweden because they were mostly all rebuilt/refinished after making their way back to Sweden. Its probably had a new stock since it was in Finland. This is the norm for SA-marked m96. They are desirable but they're not rare or even scarce. I sold a very nice 1919 m/96 earlier this year for $375. Up from the purchase price in late 1997 of $90. It was a pretty good return on the <cough>investment<cough>.



As a rule the Swedes are among the very best military rifles ever made by anyone.

As a rule, you could say that about any Mauser if you could examine them all when "new". The Swedes couldn't jump high enough to bite Ludwig Loewe's ***:). Nobody else could either, being totally fair.



If the disk markings on the rifle you're looking to buy are correct, it should be a real shooter!

Don't buy a rifle based on the disc!! The disc was relevant when the rifle was last inspected. Many of the m/96 were imported with a piece of white tape across the stock comb with a two digit number like 79. That was for 1979 when it was last inspected. You can't count on that bore disc being accurate after so many years in the U.S..... unless you know 100% it hasn't been fired since it was imported. And then you need to ascertain if said rifle came out of Swedish military storage or from a shooting club. The military rules weren't followed so close in the various and many shooting clubs around Sweden. You'll find rifles with almost no rifling left.. I have one.

You sure gave me a lot of things to comment on!

Dutch

[Dutchman]

Since you say the bore is a little on the dark side, you have encountered the fallacy of relying on what is stamped on the stock disc. A disc marked "1" might have minor signs of rust or wear, but even one marked "3" should not be dark. Even if the disc is original to the rifle, and some are not, it denotes barrel condition the last time it was inspected by a Swedish armorer. Since then, it could have been fired extensively, rusted because of not being cleaned properly, damaged by improper cleaning, etc. The only way to know for sure about bore condition is to look at a clean dry bore from both ends, paying close attention to the condition of the muzzle. Overall, I don't think you would be disappointed with a Swede, assuming the bore is in fack OK.

Higgins, my man, I just got done saying all this... but you beat me by ONE minute:).

You are 100% correct with everything you say here. Glad to see you making a distinction between "then" and "now" insofar as the disc is concerned. And the bore condition. That messes up a lot of potential Swede owners. I've never seen a rusted Swede barrel. I've seen terribly eroded Swede barrels.

Dutch

[lonewolf5347]

The action on the rifle i look at today was milled in the rear behind the stripper clip ears.I just posted the brass plate as a reference point but the marks on the plate were in red.I also think the stock was a upgrade just to new to fit that year rifle.
I think it was swap out to a newer upgrade.
The bore was dark but had good lands and grooves the crown look excellent but i see to see them a reseed into the bore.
I may have bought for 200.00 if it was the shorter barrel 23.5

[doubs43]

Dutch, your point about the disks is correct. They cannot be relied upon to be accurate today.

I have 3 or 4 Swedes, all M-96 models, and none are threaded. When the Swedes first began entering the country I had an FFL and sold a LOT of them. I also sold a steel cap to cover the threaded muzzles. I may still have a few of those caps but they're buried somewhere.

Looking back at my records, I bought my first Swedes in Feb, 1991 at $75 each and my last ones in Oct, 1994 for $84 each..... not a huge increase in value because they were plentiful and cheap. Not any longer!

As you say, there are collectors who try to have one example from each year of production. Some may not be interested in the year or even the SA stamp but they would be interested in all matching numbers and excellent condition. IF I ever decide to sell it, I'll take the trouble to find someone to whom those things do matter. :) It has a walnut stock IIRC. (I'd have to dig in my safe to verify that.

In terms of workmanship, I have an 04/39 Portuguese Vaquero made by DWM and modified by Mauser in 1938 to convert it from 6.5x58mm to 7.92x57mm and the quality is world class in every way. When Loewe became DWM, quality doesn't seem to have suffered at least to that point in time.

[dualsport]

Anybody else get the flash hider to cover the threads? Got mine 25 yrs. ago, it's dumb but looks kinds cool.

[462]

dualsport,

I have both the thread protector cap and flash hider. And, yes, although the flash hider may be unnecessary, it does look rather spiffy.

[Larry Gibson]

Double cool is with the front sight protector also:-)

Larry Gibson

[RU shooter]

Double cool is with the front sight protector also:-)

Larry Gibson Now you could market that Sweede as a "Tactical" weapon!!! all you need now are a few rails on the handguard for the laser:bigsmyl2:

[doubs43]

I dug out the 1923 Swede with the "SA" marking. The stock appears to be beech but the condition doesn't suggest that a rebuild was ever done to it.

I also have a nice walnut stocked 1908; all matching.

[dualsport]

Double cool is with the front sight protector also:-)

Larry Gibson

That sight protector is sweet. Where can I get one?

[doubs43]

That sight protector is sweet. Where can I get one?

SARCO has a pretty good selection of Swedish Mauser parts including unnumbered original parts. They list both a sight cover and a sight hood and I'm not certain which is which so a call to them would be in order.

Link: http://www.sarcoinc.com/mauser.html#9

[Dutchman]

SWED MSR Front Sight Hood 3/$34.50
This is the sheet metal sight hood. I thought I had a bag of these around here somewhere. I do have a bag of bayonet scabbard locks. I'll try and remember (!) to look out in the garage tonight. Since I moved 3 yrs ago there are things I've not found yet.

Not "GI" but we use them..... SWED MSR Muzzle Thread Cap
Not "GI". SWED MSR Flashider
Not sure what this is. Might be civilian. I have a couple. SWED MSR Front Sight Cover, Original - Super Rare
Not sure on this, either. SWED MSR Front Sight Cover Knurled Twist On Lock

Get these items:
MSR262 SWED MSR Bore Brush
MSR269 SWED MSR Cleaning Rod Extension
MSR283 SWED MSR High Front Sight (((not needed for cast boolits)
MSR440 SWED MSR Original New Extractor

Go over to Samco, too..

bayonet $25
Original Front Sight Protector $8 (this is the front sight hood shown)
Cleaning Rod Extension with slots for patches (7 1/2") $3.25 (get a couple at that price)
M96 Cleaning Rod $8 (smokin' deal)
Muzzle Cal Cleaning Rod Guide, protects crown while cleaning $10 (original and a nice piece)
Cartridge Case Catcher Bag $15 (original and kinda interesting if you get a nice one)
Muzzle Cap / Thread Protector Metal $7 (non-original but necessary)

My friend Ken Buch:
http://www.kebcollc.com/index.html

Blank Shooting Device Price: $15.00 (if you gotta have one, I don't)
Bore Brush, New Price: $1.00 (ut oh... I gotta get a dozen of these. I think these fit the cleaning rod extension)

Listen up----- Neat item. Steel. Carl Gustaf crown marked. Standard issue. Fits MOST MAUSERS including 98 Mausers. Keeps junk/solvent out of the action when cleaning.
Bore cleaning Guide Price: $30.00

Ejector, New Price: $5.00 (cheap. once in a while these break)
Extractor, New Price: $15.00 (if Ken says these are GI then get one)
Firing Pin Spring, New Price: $4.00 ( also fits 1893 & 1895 Mausers.. I have some new ones as well)
(magazine) Follower Price: $10.00 (buy one and grind & polish ramp to close on an empty magazine...:)

Ken's Walther PP parts are from Swedish police pistols (pretty sure). My son-in-law got some spare magazines and springs. Nice stuff. Always a good idea to check with Ken first. One man business and he's a good guy to do biz with. Tell him I sent you... maybe I'll get a discount :mrgreen:.

A couple neat items to have to go with your m/96:

Look around, these aren't/shouldn't be hard to find.. Cartridge belt:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Swedish-96-5-Pouch-Cartridge-Belt_W0QQitemZ350290571319QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_De faultDomain_0?hash=item518ef1f037

Canteen goes on cartridge belt. You should be able to find one for less than $15.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Original-WW-II-Swedish-Canteen_W0QQitemZ180423013868QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH _DefaultDomain_0?hash=item2a020cb5ec

Early dated 1906 issued to 12th Infantry Reg't. All stitching, no rivets. Later belts have rivets. Whether its worth $65 I leave you to decide. But this early type and dated will always be worth more down the road.
http://www.antiqueswest.com/items_militaria_swissarmybelt.html


Dutch

[ELFEGO BACA]

You can't go wrong with a Swede. My current Swede has seen 1,000s of cast bullets fired through it by yours truly.

elfego

[pilot]

You can't go wrong with a Swede. My current Swede has seen 1,000s of cast bullets fired through it by yours truly.

elfego

Load data? What boolit and what powder?

I have a 1898 K94 :mrgreen: