Pan lube problem

[abunaitoo]

I'm trying pan lubing. It's a Lee .30 180gr gas check bullet (WW, water hardered). Hornady checks. Lar45 white lube (great guy to deal with).
I heat the lube in a double boiler. Set the bullets in the lube. Let it cool on the boiler untill I can move the pan without the bullets falling over. Let it cool untill the lube pulls from the pan. Push the bullets out from top to bottom.
Problem I'm having is most of the bullets come out without lube in the bottom lube groove. Rest of the grooves are fine. Good ones come out great.
Any suggestions?????

[klausg]

I'm a real rookie at this game, so everyone please feel free to tell me how wrong I am, but I think the bullets aren't getting hot enough. I leave mine in the molten lube until they get too hot for me to touch; like I say I'm a true rookie so I could very easily be all wet.

-SSG Klaus

[Bucks Owin]

I think you are onto something "rookie".... ;-)

Dennis

[klausg]

Bucks-don't tell me I actually had a thought that was correct; ... Whoo Hoo! I just may get the hang of this stuff, eventually. Thanks brother

-SSG Klaus

[abunaitoo]

The lube seems hot enough. It's still on the boiler when I put the bullets in. It takes about 10 to 15 minutes untill it cools enough so I can move it off the boiler.
Now that I have a cake with holes in it I'll stick bullets in the holes and heat everything on the boiler. This should make the bullets as hot as the lube.

[klausg]

I'd try leaving the boiler going with the bullets in the molten lube for 10-15 minutes, then shut down your fire; same-same when you put them in the cake, let the lube melt, then leave the heat going for another 10-15 after the lube melts. The problem is not the temp of the lube but the temp of the bullets in the lube, (I THINK). Another problem might be the relative hardness of the lube, (here I'm really stepping into uncharted waters); I haven't used Lar45, but I did have a little difficulty when I was playing w/ SAECO gold. I found if the softer SAECO lube was not cool enough, (and/or the bullets embedded in it weren't cool enough), when I started to push them out of the cake; they tended to do almost exactly what you are describing, (the other pan I was using had Thompson's Blue Angel). My not so scientific solution was to put the pan in the freezer for about 10 min, then let it come back up to room temp before I started pushing out bullets. So I'm not sure; give both a shot & see if it works; hope my meager amount of experience has been a help.
-SSG Klaus

[Bucks Owin]

Bucks-don't tell me I actually had a thought that was correct; ... Whoo Hoo! I just may get the hang of this stuff, eventually. Thanks brother

-SSG Klaus


Hey, you're doing great bro!

Here's a little device for you "cake cutter" guys. It's merely a .458 Win mag case with a slot ground into the side. That's a big ol' 310 gr .44 slug up the spout with a more "garden variety" 250 K boolit shown beside. This tool's use is obvious.
To be really fancy, I could solder some handles on it and "reinforce for rough usage" with another section of case soldered to the back side to stiffen it.
However it works fine as is and "could" be sized down to .4??" before grinding the slot...

Want a quick and easy "poorboy" sizer? Get a piece of hardwood dowel and tap the lubed bullet through your sixgun's cylinder throat......:mrgreen:

(As I've done with the 250K) Looks good huh? (Well, except for the lousy photo!)

Not a worthy substitute for a lubrisizer, it's just free while you save up for one....

Dennis

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a356/BucksOwin/cake001.jpg

[drinks]

My version of pan lubing is a little different, but I have very good results with it with .22 to .45 bullets.
I use a small. flat bottomed, shallow pan, sorta like a sardine can, but actually flat bottom, a 1/4 size loaf pan is about the best.
Use a hot plate with thermostat, melt enough lube in the pan to come part way up the bullet, get the lube hot enough to stay liquid but not smoke, use forceps or small needle nose pliers, place the bullets in the pan on their bases, watch, after a few seconds, the lube will climb up the bullets, remove the bullets and set them on their bases in an aluminum pie pan, after they cool, just pop the bullets off and they are ready to load.

[Bucks Owin]

My version of pan lubing is a little different, but I have very good results with it with .22 to .45 bullets.
I use a small. flat bottomed, shallow pan, sorta like a sardine can, but actually flat bottom, a 1/4 size loaf pan is about the best.
Use a hot plate with thermostat, melt enough lube in the pan to come part way up the bullet, get the lube hot enough to stay liquid but not smoke, use forceps or small needle nose pliers, place the bullets in the pan on their bases, watch, after a few seconds, the lube will climb up the bullets, remove the bullets and set them on their bases in an aluminum pie pan, after they cool, just pop the bullets off and they are ready to load.

I've read that bullet lube MUST be melted in a double boiler so as to prevent scorching which renders the lube useless.....

Not sitting in judgement, just passing the info along, ;-)

Dennis

[abunaitoo]

I tried it again. Came out the same to worse.
I put the bullets into the holes of the cake. Heated it untill everything was melted. let it cool and pushed out the bullets. Samething. Bottom groove had, at the most, half lube in it. Other grooves were fine.
I'm thinking the lube maybe to soft. I'm going to try again but add more bees wax. Let ya'all know what happends in about an hour.

[threett1]

I have a different version which works real well for me. I use a plastic dish(hard plastic) that I can put in the microwave. Have enough lube in it to come up far enough on the boolits when melted. I put it in the microwave for a couple or until lube is liquid. I then just sit the boolits in it and let it cool. I know it is cool enough when the lube is pulling away from the sides of my dish. I then turn it over and dump the cake out. Turn back over and push out from the top. Works great for me. I will say it is lube of my own making. 5 parts beeswax, 5 parts crisco, and 1 part canola oil. Killer BPC lube.:castmine:

[kodiak1]

threett1 how hard is your lube once it sets?
Thanks Ken.

[threett1]

Not real hard. Kind of like the shoe polish that comes in the tins for lack of a better description. Doesn't work real good in my 41 mag but does good in lots of others like 38 special.:castmine:

[Dale53]

I have an "in depth" article on pan lubing that was published in "The Single Shot Journal". Send me an e-mail and I will send you a copy.

Dale53

[Blackwater]

Don't know if this'd help, but I like adding some anhydrous lanolin to my Emmert's lube for my BPCR. Seems to help the lube stick to the bullet better when pan lubing. I can't help but wonder if a little (I use @ 6% in my BP lube) might help with LAR's lube???? Just a thought. Adding beeswax seems to me to be doubtful, but I've been wrong before. Beeswax is kinda' slickery, whereas the lanolin is very sticky. Don't think lanolin would hurt the lube at all, either, but maybe someone with experience in this can comment?

[Goatlips]

abunaitoo,

I think klausg has it right about getting the boolits the same temp as the lube so that they bond together. Dale53's offer is very much worth your while, dang betcha.

Here's another way to do it:

http://goatlipstips.cas-town.com/panlubing.html

Bucks Owen, thanks for posting the picture of your cake cutter! I read your earlier description several times but it didn't sink into my brain pan enough that I could imagine it.

Goatlips

[abunaitoo]

Just about to give up on pan lube. Didn't work at all. Seems to be worse. I still feel the lube mught be to soft. I'm going to add some parafin to make it harder.
I've noticed that the cake was kind of hard coming out of the pan. There were spots brown goo on the pan and cake. I wonder if it's the Alox seperating out???? The cake is soft and sticky.
I've read someplace about adding some Ivory soap. Anyone know if this might help the lube fill the grooves????
I've looked around for the lanolin but can't find any.
Seems funny how the lube fills the upper grooves but not the bottom groove.

[montana_charlie]

Seems funny how the lube fills the upper grooves but not the bottom groove.
I've been wondering about that. You said you push on the nose to punch a bullet out of the cake, and the bottom groove comes out empty. Have you tried pushing a couple out from the base to see if the top groove loses the lube?

I think a cookie cutter would solve your problem...but I have never pan lubed.
CM

[abunaitoo]

I tried it again. Still no good. I'm begining to think it maybe the lube itself. Added about 1/4 of a block of parafin and the cake is still to soft to come out of the pan. Softer than the shoe polish. I'm going to try and make it harder.
I have the article from Dale53. Didn't use the lube in it. I wanted to try the Alox/beeswax lube.
I'll try pushing the bullets out from the bottom. It may help.
For those who do pan lube. What lube do you use????? I'm using the bullets for smokless powder. Rifle only. Light loads.

[ben1025]

I tried pushing bullets out of the lube. It didn't work very well for me. I use a cooky cutter. I only pan lube when experimenting with different lube. I cut off the base of a fired case and soldered it to a copper pipe. The copper pipe acts both like a handle and reservoir. The longer the pipe the more bullets it holds. Turn it up side down and the bullets fall out. ben1025

[Four Fingers of Death]

Bucks I've never tried pan lubing, but wouldn't it be easier to just cut the base off the case and let them push the previous ones through? I must be missing something.

PS, There is an old Lee 452 pan and cutter kit for $20 at the gunstore in my hometown. Tempting me.

Whoops, didn't see ben's post.

[Dale53]

I have pan lubed, literally, thousands of BPCR bullets by pan lubing. I have exclusively used Emmert's Home Mix (50% PUre Natural Beeswax, 40% Crisco Shortening, and 10% Canola Oil) but have modified the original formula by using 5% Canola Oil and 5% Anhydrous lanolin). You must NOT overheat the lube. The safest way is to use a double boiler or if your oven is "correct" (use a thermometer and adjust it until it is 200 degrees, NO HIGHER) use the oven. Actually, use the lowest temperature that will melt your lube.

Teflon pans are a big help and recommended. It is actually pretty fast when you get the hang of it. I pan lube all of my Schuetzen bullets, also.

Dale53

[klausg]

abunaitoo- I'm having fairly good luck with Thompson's Blue Angel using methods I already described. It is pretty damn hard, but flexible too. The only difficulty I have is that it sets up so hard that on occassion I have to hit it with a heat gun, particularily true when I'm doing little .32 handgun bullets. The other problem is getting it to let go of the pan; once the lube has set I put the pan upside down in my freezer, it falls out in about 2 minutes; of course now I definitely have to hit it with the heat gun, blow dryer would work too. FWIW, the very top of my "To Buy" list is a Lyman 450/4500; though I am having much better results now than when I made that decision.

-SSG Klaus

[powderburnerr]

reading the whole thread it kinda sounds like your lube is separating and layering in the pan maybe try heating it less than more

break the lube in two and look at the broke edge see if it is layered ....Dean

[Bucks Owin]

I tried it again. Came out the same to worse.
I put the bullets into the holes of the cake. Heated it untill everything was melted. let it cool and pushed out the bullets. Samething. Bottom groove had, at the most, half lube in it. Other grooves were fine.
I'm thinking the lube maybe to soft. I'm going to try again but add more bees wax. Let ya'all know what happends in about an hour.


When you say "pushed out the bullets" what does that mean? You just "push" them out of the solidified lube? If so, that won't work. You need to CUT them out of the lube with something like an old cartridge case....

Just wondered,

Dennis

[Bucks Owin]

Bucks I've never tried pan lubing, but wouldn't it be easier to just cut the base off the case and let them push the previous ones through? I must be missing something.

PS, There is an old Lee 452 pan and cutter kit for $20 at the gunstore in my hometown. Tempting me.

Whoops, didn't see ben's post.


Yeah, you can do that. But it's hard to handle in use. Trust me!

Dennis

[hiram]

put the dish with the melted lube in the oven for 10-15 minutes at 200 degrees. I do it and it works.

[abunaitoo]

You know how sometimes we get so caught up in fallowing the instructions, that we forget to use our common sense.:oops:
Montana Charlie suggested "Have you tried pushing a couple out from the base to see if the top groove loses the lube?"
Problem solved. Bullets came out great. Lubed just like in the picture.[smilie=w:
I may still have a lube mix problem, but as long as the lube is filling the grooves, all is good. I'll post how it shoots and if any leading.
Thanks for all the help.:drinks:

[jcadwell]

I pan lube a slightly different way, using a tumble lube idea. Heat the lube until it is soft, but not quite liquid. Then put the alox lube in a tupperware container, add bullets, and shake. The lube will cram into the lube grooves. After the bullets are packed with lube, line a cake pan with some paper towel. Add the lubed bullets and roll them around in the pan. The towel will remove the lube from everywhere but the lube grooves.

This method works great. It may use more lube than needed, but it MUCH faster in bulk that trying to stack a bunch of bullets and then cut them out.

Good luck.

[Dale53]

BucksOwin;
>>>If so, that won't work. You need to CUT them out of the lube with something like an old cartridge case....<<<

Actually, that is exactly what you do. With the lube cake full of bullets and at the correct temperature, you literally push the bullets from the cake. They will be perfectly lubed and ready to go. I've done thousands this way.

Dale53

[Bucks Owin]

BucksOwin;
>>>If so, that won't work. You need to CUT them out of the lube with something like an old cartridge case....<<<

Actually, that is exactly what you do. With the lube cake full of bullets and at the correct temperature, you literally push the bullets from the cake. They will be perfectly lubed and ready to go. I've done thousands this way.

Dale53


Hmmmm.....Guess I'm still not quite tracking with ya but if you can skip the "cutting out" process it sounds like a winner!

Dennis

[steveb]

Im using the homemade Felix lube and added a blue crayon for a nice green color.I am having the same type of problems. If I push the bullet out to fast one lube groove will be perfect and the other will not have lube in half of it and looks rolled over some. If I push the bullet through the cake very slowly the bullet comes out perfect. Its a learning process but if I can get this pan lubing down pat it seems like a good way to lube bullets. Also I have tried getting the bullets the same temp as the cake, now when I have lube already made up I just remelt it in the microwave.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a199/steveb3006/Lee429-200-RFbulletlubecologe.jpg


http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a199/steveb3006/For%20Blogs/Targetbulletcologeresized.jpg

[drinks]

I shoot up to 2800fps 158 SWC, GC's in a .35 Whelen with no leading, I use LBT soft blue, FWFL and White Label red with carnuaba.
The point of the electric hotplate with thermostatic control is to get the lube hot and keep it at a constant temperature, while not smoking or scorching the lube.
I have been doing it this way for a number of years and have never had any lube go bad.
The fellow who makes the White Label says he lets a pot of it simmer on a hotplate all day while he is making it.

[The Cod Father]

I am just getting into casting and will be casting first for .45acp , are the lubes described here good for smokeless powder or just BP ?
Will Felix'x lube work for smokeless as well ?

Thanks newbie questions
TCF

[Four Fingers of Death]

Yeah, you can do that. But it's hard to handle in use. Trust me!

Dennis

Like trying to pick up a glass of beer when you've been eating greasy pig's trotters. A match made in heaven, but awkward. Point taken, I'll get the dremel out.

[Four Fingers of Death]

For my wife's birthday she wanted one of those Magic Bullets from Danoz, the food procssor thingo.

It came today and they threw in a Chocolate Xpress (double boiler for melting and moulding chocolate). As we hardly ever eat chocolate, certainly not enough to ever melt it, I announcd that it would make a great Boolit lube melter. She did not agree. Strange, I thought it would be perfect for the job, go figure?

[montana_charlie]

I announcd that it would make a great Boolit lube melter. She did not agree. Strange, I thought it would be perfect for the job, go figure?
I, too, have looked at those chocolate melters with 'beeswax and tallow' in mind. To hear that your wife (one of those people who savvy kitchen appliances) can see no correlation makes me think I'm missing something.

Please ask her to post a comment or two which explains why our suppositions are wrong.
CM

[powderburnerr]

I got me a fry daddy to make lube in the temp is great and you cannot burn it if you set it on warm also the finish wipes clean with a paper towel ...Dean

[doc25]

Just going out on a limb here but can the lube be too hot. When the lube hardens and you flip the cake over is the lube covering the bottom groove? Is it possible as it hardens that it lifts away from the sides and bottom of pan clinging to the boolits and leaves an airspace underneath?

[ben1025]

This past week my wife gave me a fingernail wax melter (?). It's a revlon product. It has a 2 7/8 diameter by 7/8 deep flat bottom pan. It has a switch and a lite on it. I haven't tried it yet but it looks just right for experimenting with different lubes. It even has a a cippered? case. About a year ago I burnt my house down melting lube. My wife is scared I would do it again. On shooters I was ben.. When we moved to aimoo it was changed to ben1025. It is ben1025 on cast bullets. I mention this cause there is a Ben on this forum. ben1025