Cast and Muzzleloader

[Tazman1602]

Well was out today shooting the old Knight Mark 85 for Muzzleloader season (anyone know why they quit making rifles??) loading two pyrodex pellets and saboted Hornady .44 cal 265 jacketed when wife asks me "can't you shoot those bullets you cast in this?"

....I almost fell over. Never occurred to me. I had just cast some RD TL430-265 grain GC bullets and the alox was dry on them. Stuff one in the sabot and put it down the barrel....stuff two down the sabot/barrel and let her fly. No way, lucky shot, to close to the other one. Stuff number three down the barrel and let it fly.

.....best group ever came out of that gun. Learn something new here everyday or at least get the idea to try it. Now I've got a source of muzzleloader bullets too.....gonna try some in that steenking stainless/smokeless Savage this week!

THANKS Cast Boolits!

Art

[MT Gianni]

Great. The next move is to a side lock and black powder. Then you will arrive at a flinter and round balls. Congratulations, the journey has begun.

[Tazman1602]

Great. The next move is to a side lock and black powder. Then you will arrive at a flinter and round balls. Congratulations, the journey has begun.

Oh no.........been there, done that. You know why Dan'l Boone and Davey Crockett were skinny? It's because they almost starved to death.

I had a 1-66" twist CVA percussion ONCE, got pretty good to where I could hit a paper plate at about 80 yards, went hunting. 8 does on the baitpile (baiting here was legal then.....). Took careful aim, BOOM! Smoke clears, deer are still eating. Carefully measure another load, patch ball, seat ball, put on cap, take careful aim, BOOM! Deer are still eating. Pour some powder down barrel, ram ball home, put cap on BOOM! Deer are still eating. SLAM POWDER IN BARREL, TO HELL WITH MEASURE, RAM BALL DOWN, BOOM!

..........Deer are still eating. Only now I SWEAR I can hear them laughing at me.............

Hey I know it was a cheapie CVA and it was a LONG time ago, my eyes aren't good enough for open sights anymore and I really like at least a 1-48" twist in the barrel, the 1-28 in my Knight is just dandy. I did eventually find a use for that CVA..........as a jack handle...........

OK, now maybe just for target work and fun I would have a sidelock with a flint.........as long as I didn't have to feed anyone with it!!

Art

[357maximum]

Art

I assure you that a good percussion/flint gun will keep you fed. The cva's have issues no doubt about it, but some can be fixed. I have 3 of em. I was able to bring 2 of them around to being utterly reliable...the other one is going to require an exorcism I am afraid.

I voided all warrantees on all 3 of em. Pulled the drum and breechplugs and drilled them all out to a larger size...that helped alot. I also had some stouter springs installed in the locks. Why that one will not come around is beyond me. The barrel is going to get breeched up for my H&A style underhammmer as it shoots 275 grain BRP maxihunters far too well....when it goes off that is. Might even mount a small scope on that 1/48 cva barrel when I get it on my underhammer.


My dad shoots the lee Trunacated Cone 45 cal tumblelubed style boolits in a sabot in his 15inch encore 209X50....very accurate, and when they are made out of fairly soft lead they have done well at making meat. I made him up a few out of my 2cavity and when we shot them he ordered a 6cavity and handed it to me so I could make alot of them for him...they flat shoot. BRP products makes a couple of 45 cal moulds expressly for use in a sabot also.

[Tazman1602]

Thanks 357Max. The CVA I had was at LEAST 25 years ago so it wasn't one of the new models they make. I read they are really making some good stuff these days.

I don't think any rifles are without their "quirks" but at the time I was young, stupid, and those deer laughing really made me mad.

What I'd really like is to get into BPCR but I'm afraid once I open the money floodgates on that I'll be bankrupt. There's also a huge issue even getting black powder up here. When a semi load comes in the door of the store it goes right back out and it ain't cheap. I'd give anything for a keg of GOEX these days. Now that would be fun to play around with.

I've also noticed the price of the old replica ML's are out the roof! I can remember buying "kits" at the local grocery store for $40 but I guess I'm dating myself here...........

Regards,

Art

[lathesmith]

Art, me and my dad have killed several deer with RB's fired from our CVA replicas, at ranges of around 20 to over 70 yards, and I can assure you they were just as dead as anything we have ever shot with our "modern" firearms. I've even nailed a coyote or two, and once again...dead as a doornail. Maybe "buck fever" did you in (I know you were shooting at does, but still...!)?

One of those replicas was a 45 caliber half-stock rifle of some sort, paid around $90 for it in 1984(now I'm dating myself), and that gun shoots more accurate than I can hold. As 357 says, sometimes you gotta tweak them a bit, but they'll do the job.

And yes, you are right, the cartridge BP thing is LOTS of fun, and can be VERY addicting. Even something as simple as shooting Pyrodex from my Ruger Vaquero brings back fond memories of the "good ol' days"--nice cloud of white smoke, and a good odor to boot. So don't let the lack of "real" BP stop you--there are work-arounds. Even though some guys get kinda snobbish and look down their noses at you unless you use "real" BP, don't let this bother you; it's too much fun to let that nonsense get in your way.

lathesmith

[AZ-Stew]

Lathesmith is right about the black powder replicas. I've used a couple of granulations of pyrodex and I have some Tripple7ven, but I haven't cracked the lid yet. The best I've found so far is Pyrodex Select. I got the best accuracy with it.

I have a couple of caplock rifles with 1-48 barrels. One is a switch-barrel, .50 and .36. I've used RB and Maxi boolits in all three barrels with success. Sure, they're not as sexy as a sabot with a jacketed bullet, but they're accurate and deliver a big punch.

Regards,

Stew

[HORNET]

Art, The 429421 also works well in the in-lines. You don't need gas checks and lube with a sabot. BTW, CVA barrels now are MUCH better than they were 25 years ago. My dad built one back then from a kit and I have no idea how they got actual rifling in there with a surface finish that rough. I've seen files that were much smoother.. The in-line that I got a few months ago has an interior finish almost like a mirror. I can't see open sights fer diddly in the woods anymore either and a scoped side-hammer is WIERD.

[Tazman1602]

Art, me and my dad have killed several deer with RB's fired from our CVA replicas, at ranges of around 20 to over 70 yards, and I can assure you they were just as dead as anything we have ever shot with our "modern" firearms. I've even nailed a coyote or two, and once again...dead as a doornail. Maybe "buck fever" did you in (I know you were shooting at does, but still...!)?

One of those replicas was a 45 caliber half-stock rifle of some sort, paid around $90 for it in 1984(now I'm dating myself), and that gun shoots more accurate than I can hold. As 357 says, sometimes you gotta tweak them a bit, but they'll do the job.

And yes, you are right, the cartridge BP thing is LOTS of fun, and can be VERY addicting. Even something as simple as shooting Pyrodex from my Ruger Vaquero brings back fond memories of the "good ol' days"--nice cloud of white smoke, and a good odor to boot. So don't let the lack of "real" BP stop you--there are work-arounds. Even though some guys get kinda snobbish and look down their noses at you unless you use "real" BP, don't let this bother you; it's too much fun to let that nonsense get in your way.

lathesmith

Absolutely agreed.........that isn't the problem, I don't care who gets snobbish these days and I KNOW I can make almost any gun shoot (NOW.................) I'm just afraid if I get into BPCR I'm gonna dive in with both feet and spend my retirement. You have no idea how much I want one of US Firearms Colt replicas and I want a Shiloh Sharps 45-110 worse than that. I wish Venturino would quit posting pics of his rifles (not really...........) because I look like a drooling Bull Mastiff whenever I see them......

I wish I had that old CVA back because I now know I can make it shoot. Young men may be tough but they're dumb as all git out -- no offense to you young fellers out there (under 40.........)

Art

[Tazman1602]

Lathesmith is right about the black powder replicas. I've used a couple of granulations of pyrodex and I have some Tripple7ven, but I haven't cracked the lid yet. The best I've found so far is Pyrodex Select. I got the best accuracy with it.

I have a couple of caplock rifles with 1-48 barrels. One is a switch-barrel, .50 and .36. I've used RB and Maxi boolits in all three barrels with success. Sure, they're not as sexy as a sabot with a jacketed bullet, but they're accurate and deliver a big punch.

Regards,

Stew

Thanks Stew, the 1-48 twist stabilizes much better than 1-66 and I was SO stupid back then.......................I do love that Knight just because it's like a couple of other guns I've got. It shoots *almost* whatever I use but it does have it's pet loads. Some guns I've got won't shoot anything BUT their pet loads......

Art

[357maximum]

Art

There are many place on the net that you can order bulk bp right to your house. There is a hazmat charge but if you buy 25 lbs and split it with someone it will still be cheaper than buying a 1lb can at the local store. And you will not have to fight your way through the crowds when the semi shows up.


google a search for "bulk blackpowder"

here is a good chart made to compare prices..slightly outdated but gives you an idea:


http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=481160


I bought my last case from here and was very pleased. http://www.powderinc.com/catalog/order.htm

[Tazman1602]

Art, The 429421 also works well in the in-lines. You don't need gas checks and lube with a sabot. BTW, CVA barrels now are MUCH better than they were 25 years ago. My dad built one back then from a kit and I have no idea how they got actual rifling in there with a surface finish that rough. I've seen files that were much smoother.. The in-line that I got a few months ago has an interior finish almost like a mirror. I can't see open sights fer diddly in the woods anymore either and a scoped side-hammer is WIERD.

I see they've made some improvements, your inline -- is it the "Omega" they make now I think I've been drooling over?

I have a Savage 10ML-II stainless too and that thing ONLY shoots one or two loads....and I mean literally. If you dont' use the correct smokeless/sabot/bullet combo it will shoot 12" groups all day long and just FORGET BP/Pyrodex although I'm going to experiment with some cast stuff this year and see what happens.

EDIT: YOU HAD TO MENTION A MOLD I DON'T HAVE...RIGHT??? LOL, now I've got another mold on the "I want" list....................you guys are awful...........<GRIN>

[Tazman1602]

Art

There are many place on the net that you can order bulk bp right to your house. There is a hazmat charge but if you buy 25 lbs and split it with someone it will still be cheaper than buying a 1lb can at the local store. And you will not have to fight your way through the crowds when the semi shows up.


google a search for "bulk blackpowder"

here is a good chart made to compare prices..slightly outdated but gives you an idea:


http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=481160


I bought my last case from here and was very pleased. http://www.powderinc.com/catalog/order.htm

Holy Mackerel I didn't know you still COULD order BP. I've got a ton of guys up here that I'm sure would go for a group buy.

THANKS!!

Art

[HORNET]

Art, Not an Omega. The .50 that I've been hunting with for the last couple of years is a CVA Apollo that I got at a yard sale cheap ($40). It has a somewhat pitted barrel from not being cleaned after being fired and only seems to do well with sabot loads. The pitting is at the breech end, the rest of the barrel is nicely smooth, 32" twist. The one that I got recently is a Magnum Hunter in .45 (28" twist) but I haven't had a chance to try it yet.

[Jim]

I bought a Lyman GPR in .54 caplock back in 2000. I make my .535 RBs outa' A/C WWs and they shoot jes' fine. An .016 50/50 linen/cotton patch with straight B'swax for lube and she'll park RBs in a 4" group @ 100 yds. all day long off the bench.
That thing sure is fun to shoot!

[Tazman1602]

Art, Not an Omega. The .50 that I've been hunting with for the last couple of years is a CVA Apollo that I got at a yard sale cheap ($40). It has a somewhat pitted barrel from not being cleaned after being fired and only seems to do well with sabot loads. The pitting is at the breech end, the rest of the barrel is nicely smooth, 32" twist. The one that I got recently is a Magnum Hunter in .45 (28" twist) but I haven't had a chance to try it yet.

Man wasn't the Apollo the one that put the "old" CVA out of business because they were blowing up -- of course people were being stupid about it but I *think* they may have been sued bigtime over that one. Not sure, will have to check. That Magnum hunter you are going to LIKE with that 1-28 twist, trust me on that. A break action is what I'd really like, but maybe not if I can just get that Savage ML10-II to shoot pyrodex, which, at this point, seems like an impossible endeavor. From everything I've read you HAVE to use smokeless and .45 cal sabot bullets (and not just any sabot, only MMP sabots but I have some...)

Half the fun for me is the smoke from pyrodex/BP....................aw hell. Now you guys have got me looking for old ML's at yardsales for next year, more bullet molds.......does it ever stop???? LOL

Art