View Full Version : Penetration of pistol boolits
outdoorfan
12-06-2009, 10:16 PM
For all the talk of people's experiences shooting big bore boolits out of wheel guns, and putting them lengthwise through big critters (even smashing through multiple bones in the process), I can't even get my 342 grain wfn .452 boolits at 1100 fps to go through a 6-inch birch/popel tree once they freeze up. Stops 'em every time. When I had my .480 Ruger, I was shooting 412 grain LFN's at 1200 fps with the same results. Go figure! Those trees can sure absorb lots of energy.
deltaenterprizes
12-06-2009, 10:38 PM
There is a big difference between frozen wood and soft flesh. Try soaking bundles of newspaper with water in plastic garbage bags and shoot them to guage penetration.
Wayne Smith
12-06-2009, 11:09 PM
PS Don't let 'em freeze!
fredj338
12-06-2009, 11:16 PM
Testing penetration in wood has no relationship to penetration on tissue. If yo udon't have access to bal.gel. then wet phone books or wet newsprint wroks pretty well, about 2/3 the penetration of bal.gel. In wetpack, my 45/300grLFN @ 1000fps penetrate almost 20" of wetpack. That is equal to my 404jeffery 380grSP @ 2250fps, better than the 17" I get w/ a 210gr/338NP @ 2700fps. I have only recovered one of each of those bullets from game as large as elk (338) & cape buff (404j).
So to draw a parallel, I'm betting not much stops that 45/300grLFP short of a 1300#cape buff.
44man
12-07-2009, 12:43 AM
My .45 will go through a 16" tree with ease and my .475 makes 37" of wet phone books. Frozen wood is HARD!
outdoorfan
12-07-2009, 12:55 AM
My .45 will go through a 16" tree with ease and my .475 makes 37" of wet phone books. Frozen wood is HARD!
What kind of tree was that?
Whitworth
12-07-2009, 08:16 AM
Darn good thing we're not hunting trees.......
Three-Fifty-Seven
12-07-2009, 08:54 AM
Darn good thing we're not hunting trees.......
Or cutting fire wood!
randyrat
12-07-2009, 09:05 AM
NEVER shoot a parabellum/ or jacketed round nose bullet into a frozen tree, they bounce back and can kill you. I seen a guy do it. The bullet came back and creased his snomobile helmet. He was not ok, he had to go home and change underware. No physical damage. this tree was a Big frozen oak tree.
44man
12-07-2009, 09:16 AM
The tree we shot was a boxelder. I have shot into my wood bin and found the boolit sticking out the other end of seasoned oak firewood that is 16" long. These are WLN and WFN boolits too. A round nose is dangerous to shoot at wood, they can turn and come out somewhere else. I was shooting a 30-30 contender at a 13" oak log at 100 yards, hoping to catch the lead but they all went through and I found a bunch that turned and came out the top of the log. They were hard cast RCBS silhouette boolits.
Thumbcocker
12-07-2009, 09:54 AM
I have had a few run ins with boxelder trees too. They tend to jump in front of arrows shot at deer where I hunt. I don't know why boxelders have this death wish or what they get from the deer in return. Some mysteries are just beyond me.
As any of the guys heating with wood up in the frozen white north can tell you, there's a big difference between unseasoned wood that's frozen solid, and wood that's not frozen. You learn this the first time you put off hand splitting next seasons firewood until mid winter.
My .44 mag 310 grain WFNs can easily penetrate a 10" maple in the fall. I wouldn't want to try it in February in Maine.
BD
TooManyMisses
12-07-2009, 11:11 AM
If any of you have tried cutting a Sugar Maple at -20F with a good sharp chain saw and watched the sparks fly you know you don't want to be shooting at it with anything. This may be the most extreme example but all green wood has significant water content and is harder than normal when frozen. Ricochets are hard to dodge.
TMM
rob45
12-07-2009, 01:22 PM
DO NOT shoot at a frozen Bambi. For those who believe in the concept of hydrostatic shock, the increased pressure of hitting his frozen insides will cause the antlers to skyrocket into outer space. Then you have nothing to mount on the wall.
DO NOT shoot at a frozen Porky The Pig. The bullet will not penetrate through; instead it will take a big chunk of frozen meat out of him, and SWMBO will now chide you for not "bringing home enough bacon".
DO NOT shoot at a frozen Bullwinkle. If the bullet does not penetrate and take him down, you'll just knock him dumber than he already is. Worse yet, he will go back and tell Rocky. Then you get to hear Rocky chatter at you all day while you're in that tree stand looking for a Bambi that is not frozen.
DO NOT shoot at a frozen Smokey The Bear. One thing is certain- Smokey is unpredictable. Most of the time he just walks around the woods talking to others about fires and then peacefully keeps to himself when he's not doing that. When he is in his frozen state and gets hit with a bullet, he doesn't drop. Instead, he will now charge at you because he knows that you're trying to start a fire. After all, he saw your muzzle flash!
Sorry, guys. My first wife was a cartoon artist, so I had to interject with the warped humor.
44man
12-07-2009, 01:41 PM
DO NOT shoot at a frozen Bambi. For those who believe in the concept of hydrostatic shock, the increased pressure of hitting his frozen insides will cause the antlers to skyrocket into outer space. Then you have nothing to mount on the wall.
DO NOT shoot at a frozen Porky The Pig. The bullet will not penetrate through; instead it will take a big chunk of frozen meat out of him, and SWMBO will now chide you for not "bringing home enough bacon".
DO NOT shoot at a frozen Bullwinkle. If the bullet does not penetrate and take him down, you'll just knock him dumber than he already is. Worse yet, he will go back and tell Rocky. Then you get to hear Rocky chatter at you all day while you're in that tree stand looking for a Bambi that is not frozen.
DO NOT shoot at a frozen Smokey The Bear. One thing is certain- Smokey is unpredictable. Most of the time he just walks around the woods talking to others about fires and then peacefully keeps to himself when he's not doing that. When he is in his frozen state and gets hit with a bullet, he doesn't drop. Instead, he will now charge at you because he knows that you're trying to start a fire. After all, he saw your muzzle flash!
Sorry, guys. My first wife was a cartoon artist, so I had to interject with the warped humor.
:bigsmyl2::bigsmyl2::bigsmyl2:
Ricochet
12-07-2009, 01:47 PM
I've seen (and felt, OUCH!) pistol bullets come back from a railroad tie. Watch out for treated wood.
mpmarty
12-07-2009, 04:08 PM
The rate of return on pistol boolits striking hard surfaces is truly amazing. I had a mil spec hardball 45acp come back from the plate rack at a match and hit my little finger on my left hand as it was wrapped around the front of the grip in my normal two handed firing stance. I at first thought the gun had blown up and the pain was quite distracting. I had ridden my motorcycle to this particular match and riding home my clutch (left) hand with the broken pinkie finger was no fun at all.:killingpc
My .45 will go through a 16" tree with ease and my .475 makes 37" of wet phone books. Frozen wood is HARD!
Awww, that ain't nuthin'! I shot my my .50 Barrett at a squirrel from the bathroom window the other day an' it went through a 36" hickory, a tractor and a barn full of hay and then killed 2 deer, a bear and a preacher in the next county!:kidding:
JIMinPHX
12-07-2009, 06:22 PM
Awww, that ain't nuthin'! I shot my my .50 Barrett at a squirrel from the bathroom window the other day an' it went through a 36" hickory, a tractor and a barn full of hay and then killed 2 deer, a bear and a preacher in the next county!:kidding:
...Must have been a pretty scrawny bear. ;)
archmaker
12-07-2009, 06:29 PM
Chest waders required, hip boots are not high enough for the copious amount of Bovine smelted hay produced by this thread.
:-D
pdawg_shooter
12-07-2009, 06:32 PM
I've seen (and felt, OUCH!) pistol bullets come back from a railroad tie. Watch out for treated wood.
Is that where you got your name?
44man
12-07-2009, 07:03 PM
...Must have been a pretty scrawny bear. ;)
Naw, cheap hay like we had to buy for the horse once. Air with twine around it! [smilie=b:
Ricochet
12-07-2009, 09:09 PM
Is that where you got your name?
:D
Fact is, when I registered on shooters.com sometime back in the dark ages of the mid-'90s, I realized that nearly everyone was using some sort of "handle" in place of their name. I tried several gun/ammo related words that were already used, and "Ricochet" was the first one it took. I've used it on a bunch of other boards, but there are plenty of others where the moniker belongs to someone else. It suits me, because I tend to bounce from one interest or activity to another, eventually getting back around to them.
outdoorfan
12-07-2009, 10:47 PM
Had no idea this thread would end up being so entertaining. [smilie=p:
..... Bovine smelted hay.....:-d
that's funny!!
HORNET
12-08-2009, 02:34 PM
Jim said:
I shot my my .50 Barrett at a squirrel from the bathroom window the other day an' it went through a 36" hickory, a tractor and a barn full of hay and then killed 2 deer, a bear and a preacher in the next county!
But did you get the squirrel?
I think I read in a previous thread that 44man could shoot offhand with his revolver in west virginia and get a one inch group on a frozen giant redwood in washington state and penetrating 15 feet of trunk and exiting the other side, deflecting upward and continuing into orbit and they are still orbiting the earth as we speak:kidding:
But did you get the squirrel?
You got any tooth picks? I need to get the last of that squirrel outa' muh teeth.
JIMinPHX
12-13-2009, 10:49 PM
Back to the original question that started this whole thread...
Penetration in soft tissue is fairly close to penetration in crumb rubber, from my experience. I'm not saying that it's the same thing, but it tends to be fairly close. I did a little research a while back on penetration of various boolits in crumb rubber when I was trying to figure out how to build myself an efficient lead recovery trap. If you would like to see some of my data from that little excapade, they take a look at the lower portion of Post #108 in this thread - http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=26627&page=6
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