Selling my boolits?

[chris in va]

Anyone get so many made they end up selling some? I've got around 4000 made and not sure what to do with them now.:veryconfu

9mm 124gr TC tumble lube, Lee mold.

[partsman]

why not shoot them...........

[462]

Chris,

Recast them into a more useful boolit.

I'd never sell a boolit...too many potential liability issues.

[d_striker]

4000 isn't that many to me.

I try to load up about 5,000-8,000 during the winter to use the following spring, summer, and fall.

[mooman76]

I'm in th same boat sort of but I have plenty of lead. I get hiped up on one caliber and move to the next. I just hold onto them and if I need to later I'll melt them down just as ingots.

[Marlin Hunter]

I'd never sell a boolit...too many potential liability issues.


That is the sad truth. :-(:-(:-(:-(

We can't make money in this country, and the goobermint wonders why the economy vacuums.

[jack19512]

Anyone get so many made they end up selling some?







No. With lead on it's way out as far as wheel weights are concerned might be hard to come by someday.

[lwknight]

When you get 10,000 boolits made , its time to get a different caliber mold.

[Baron von Trollwhack]

Just sell the excess on the Swap forum here. It is hard to think of a problem that could realistically arise from a well cast bullet being sold for use as a bullet. Nerverous Nellies ought to worry about selling/buying that once fired brass, that some admit they don't know is really once fired. That cartridge case out of the burn barrels all polished up nice is what is scary. BvT

[jhrosier]

Chris,
There have been a number of discussions in the past about whether a FFL is required to sell boolits that you make.
Here is one of them: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=42383
I don't want to hijack the thread in that direction, as it has been exhausively discussed elsewhere, but you may want to think about the legal requirements and potential liability if you are going to sell the boolits that you make.

Personally, considering how hard it is and will be to get lead, I would keep the surplus and either eventually shoot it up or possibly recast the boolits into something that you need later. It costs you nothing to keep them.
The 124 gr boolits will make good plinkers in the .38 Spl if they are not sized too small. I shot tens of thousands of them at steel plate matches back in the day. I still have a big pile of them loaded up for practice with my snubbie and teaching new shooters the basics.

Jack

[Shiloh]

why not shoot them...........


Chris,

Recast them into a more useful boolit.

I'd never sell a boolit...too many potential liability issues.

These posts some things up.

If you sell them do it locally and quietly. Personally, I am trying to acquire lead for my own use. Selling it never entered my mind.

Shiloh

[462]

Baron Von Trollwhack,

Not a Nervous Nellie, but as jhrosier pointed out, the ATF is my primary concern.

I GIVE boolits to two fine and generous gentlemen who give me free wheelweights.

[iron mule]

hello 462 casting and selling boollets does not fall under any rule , guide line, or law concering the atf // but manufacturing ammo to sell does , a lot of people get confused about this , hope this will help you on that
mule

[Shiloh]

The ATF decides what is legal or not. They are the ultimate arbiter of their laws, and rule and enforce to their own interpretation for their own favorable outcome. Against you.
Small scale will probably go un-noticed. Personally, My aim is to be invisible to gov't agencies.

Shiloh

[fredj338]

Anyone get so many made they end up selling some? I've got around 4000 made and not sure what to do with them now.:veryconfu

9mm 124gr TC tumble lube, Lee mold.
You must not shoot much. 4000 bullets would last me less than a year for one caliber.

[lwknight]

Some people reload so that they can afford to shoot. I go shooting so that I will have something to reload. All in all, it makes you a better shot either way.

[d_striker]

Are we talking about boolits or loaded ammo? It seems there are two different discussions going on.

[chris in va]

Boolits. Bare, no lube.

It's been pointed out to me on another forum I need an FFL license.

[Stick_man]

It seems to me that unlubed boolits are nothing more than little tiny ingots that just happen to be shaped ideally to fit into a small brass container.

Some of those small ingots may end up getting reshaped into fishing sinkers or anchors for duck decoys. Who's selling ammunition components?

[Tazman1602]

Boolits. Bare, no lube.

It's been pointed out to me on another forum I need an FFL license.

NO WAY. NOT true. Loaded ammo YES. Bare Bullets NO. Hell I could be wrong but there's no way you have to have an FFL to sell cast BOOLITS (not loaded ammo....)

Art

EDIT -- Holy carp. I just read that other thread. I don't believe it but coming from the batman I guess I do believe it??? What a sham I guess I stand corrected.........

[Shiloh]

Some people reload so that they can afford to shoot. I go shooting so that I will have something to reload. All in all, it makes you a better shot either way.

It's called making brass. Reload, Re-shoot, Repeat.

Shiloh

[Adam10mm]

I'll paste my post from Glocktalk here for others to see.


If you want to sell bullets you make (cast) you will need to be licensed as an ammunition manufacturer, as the GCA of 1968 includes bullets as ammunition. The FFL is $30 for three years, then there's liability insurance, ITAR, local business licenses, etc. Do it right or don't play ball.

You will not make money casting bullets by hand. Been there, done that, business closed.

I was wielding dual 6 cavity molds with two 20lb pots running a Star bullet sizer. Casting was about 1600 bullets an hour and sizing was about 2000 bullets an hour. I couldn't keep up with orders. Ended up racking my credit cards to the max, losing my business, and almost my marriage. I've got $15,000 in credit card debt and a public record mark that a business I owned failed to show for it.

If you want to sell bullets commercially, at the very minimum get the small Magma machine. It's currently $995 and will cast 500-800 per hour steadily. It's the Dillon 550 of casting machines. To do it the right way, you will need the Mark 7, which runs $11,350 currently. Think of a ferris wheel slinging bullets. That's what the full time companies do.

Think of some issues before you get all giddy about selling your bullets, legal and licensing aside.

What's your lead source? What's your alloy? Wheel weights? People aren't going to pay a premium for WW bullets. Is your source reliable? Foundry lead alloy? What mix? Do you have a forklift to move a pallet of lead of the flatbed? What happens when a customer has leading in their gun with your bullets? Do you have enough experience to help them? When you help them, how long on the phone do you think it will take? How much time will that set you back with your bullet production? What if a gun shop called and wanted 100,000 bullets, could you handle it and in what time frame? What quantity are your bullets going to be sold? Do you have packaging suppliers in mind? Boxes, bags, vacuum sealed ? Are you going to have bulk shipping arrangements with the local post office? How is your consistency in quality? What is your sizing method? What lube are you using and what is their availability of supplying you? What is your gross and net profit margin? Whom is your target base, dealer only or will you sell to retail too?

Lots of questions and it seems like I'm being a prick, but really stop and think about what you are getting yourself in to with casting commercially. Really think about it. If you don't know or have no clue where to find the answers to even 20% of the questions above, bullet casting for a business isn't for you.

My advice: If you can answer those questions, get your suppliers, logistics, and numbers in order. Get the right equipment and give 'em hell.

[rwt101]

So sell them as scrap and don't call them bullets!!
Bob T

[Wayne Smith]

Why sell? They don't go bad! Unless you have more than you plan to shoot in your lifetime, don't sell. I agree with the Glocktalk post, by the way. And I have an FFL to sell ammo.

[evan price]

As already mentioned, to make any component of ammo for resale ATF requires you to have an FFL '06. That includes cast boolits. It's only $30 for 3 years. That's not the deal breaker. The deal breaker is- You will also need to register with the US State Department under the ITAR regulations and that costs $2250 per year to start.

Fail to do so and risk federal prosecution.

[Adam10mm]

You don't need an FFL to sell it, only to manufacture it. If you are selling someone's bullets you're fine. If you're selling your bullets, you need an 06.

[Adam10mm]

Here's another post I just made here on the same topic. Wish this info would be a sticky as this topic comes up a lot.


Here are the facts from an actual licensed manufacturer that knows the facts, me.

The GCA of 1968 defines ammunition as:


Ammunition. Ammunition or cartridge cases, primers, bullets, or propellent powder designed for use in any firearm other than an antique firearm. The term shall not include (a) any shotgun shot or pellet not designed for use as the single, complete projectile load for one shotgun hull or casing, nor (b) any unloaded, non-metallic shotgun hull or casing not having a primer.

As you can see, ammunition also includes components such as bullets, cases, primers, and powder. If you manufacture any of these, example being casting a bullet, you are manufacturing ammunition. If you do it for livelihood and profit, you need to be licensed as a manufacturer.

The ATF's opinion/way they enforce the law, is one incident of selling ammunition or components you manufacture is cause to believe you did it to attempt profit and livelihood. Livelihood can be supplemental income. Selling also includes not only common currency payments but also trades for services, goods, or promises for future compensation. Selling equals compensation. If you are compensated in any way shape or form, you are "selling".

The FFL type you need is a Type 06 Manufacturer of Small Arms Ammunition Other Than Destructive Devices. The fee is $30 for three years.

Also, what a lot of manufacturers don't get is that since you are manufacturing ammunition or components that also gets controlled by the US State Department under the ITAR or International Trade in Arms Regulations.

In a nutshell, it states that manufacturers of ammunition, components, firearms, parts, scopes, etc are all manufacturers of "defensive articles". It does not matter if you are not exporting them. All manufacturers must register. There are no exceptions. The fact that you are only manufacturing articles for civilian use of domestic law enforcement use does not matter. The annual fee for ITAR registration is $2250 per year.

Here's the straight up ITAR code:


Sec. 122.1 Registration requirements.

(a) General. Any person who engages in the United States in the business
of either manufacturing or exporting defense articles or furnishing
defense services is required to register with the Office of Munitions
Control. Manufacturers who do not engage in exporting must nevertheless
register.


Then there's liability insurance. A basic liability policy is a few thousand dollars a year and goes up from there.

So there you have it from someone who has been there, done that. I started my business as a commercial bullet caster in 2006, licensed as an 06 FFL, registered with ITAR as a manufacturer of defensive articles, and insured with a $1 million product liability policy. The legal way and the right way.

[mroliver77]

I agree with shoot more. Some years ago I realized I basically sucked at shooting a handgun. My dad hadnt shot a pistol since Korea and made me look bad.I read a couple books on handgun shooting(NRA pub and Bill Jordans "No Second Place Winner") Biggest point in both was practice! I shot on my shop at 30 feet all winter burning up hundreds of wadcutters every night. Did that for a couple months. buned up 5000 primers I had bought and cast and recast the lead. I had thought the Astra K frame wannabe I had did not shoot well. The more I shot it, the better it shot until I could make 1 ragged hole most times at 30 ft. Funny when spring came I was on a walkabout of the farm when a chuck looked out his hole at me. I drew, aimed and fired rather quickly and poked a neat wadcutter hole right through his forehead where I had aimed. Range? You guessed it 30 feet. ;) I have hit them at up to 60 yards with a handgun since.
I say shoot them!!!!
Jay

[mroliver77]

and a quick question to those in the know. Say I buy boolits from freakshow and find I have a surplus. Is it then legal for me to sell them? I assume so but we know about assumptions.
Jay

[462]

iron mule,

This topic has been covered before, and the ATF does, indeed, have written regulations concerning the manufacture and selling of bullets. If you are comfortable with your view, especially if you've taken the time to read the posted link to the ATF, then far be it from me to attempt to change your thinking. However, I know a person who obtained a manufacturer's license (type 06?) in order to cast and sell bullets, and soon discovered that dealing with the ATF was just short of a nightmare, and he soon gave up on the endeavor.

ATF regulations are extremely ambiguous, as written, and, I believe, purposely so. I have a C&R license (type 03) and reading and trying to decipher the meanings and intents of its regulations would give a good lawyer a headache.

Once, I had a question regarding the meaning of a paragraph in a particular C&R regulation. I e-mailed the ATF with the question and received a prompt answer, from a very gracious lady. Her answer was almost as muddled as the regulation, so I asked her to clarify what she said. Her second reply, again, in a very gracious tone, was in non-governmental English and answered the question.

[Adam10mm]

and a quick question to those in the know. Say I buy boolits from freakshow and find I have a surplus. Is it then legal for me to sell them? I assume so but we know about assumptions.
Jay
Yes, because I made them, you are selling them. A license is to manufacture, not to deal/sell like a gun dealer has a dealer license. There is no FFL to sell or deal in ammunition or components only to manufacture.

If you didn't make it, no FFL.