double rifle question

[smoked turkey]

I have been trying to stave off a desire for a double rifle for some time now. Since I can't seem to shake it, I would like is some advice on which rifle to buy or not to buy for that matter. I have been considering a 50 cal in either the CVA Express or the Pedersoli Kodiak. I don't know anything about either. I have heard good and not so good things on both brands. I am wondering about quality, strength for heavy loads, dependability, etc. I don't have any idea of cost of either rifle, but the purchase cost is a factor which might determine whether I buy or not. Any thoughts or comments pro or con would be appreciated. Thanks for your input.
I spend quite a bit of time reading the threads on this web site and I am really impressed with the depth of knowledge on virtually any subject related to casting, reloading, firearms, shooting, etc. This is my go place on the web for the hobby I love. Thanks to all of you who have contributed to my understanding of this hobby in the past.

[John Taylor]

any double rifle you get will change the point of impact with load changes. The barrels are regulated to put both shots close together at a certain range with a certain load. Most doubles are regulated to 50 yards with a 3" group as common. Most of what I have heard on doubles is that both shots should hit a paper plate at 50 yards. They are a close range gun and not a target rifle. The last one I had experience on would walk both barrel to the right as they warmed up. I ran 18 shots through as fast as I could and it started at the center of the target and went to the 3 o-clock and then off the target.
They are a neat gun and I like them but they do have their draw backs. Would be a great hunting rifle with in the range limitations, I imagine they would be good for deer or elk with in 100 yards. Some states will not allow them for BP season because there are two shot.

[northmn]

Does CVA still make a double rifle? I ahd one many years ago, but the barrels shot further apart as the distance increased. Sold it to a black bear hunter for close range stuff. Was not really impressed. Like John stated they chould be considered a close range proposition, but that one was a little too extreme and shot about a foot or better apart at 75 yards.

Northmn

[Nobade]

I don't know, my Pedersoli 12 bore double keeps most shots from both barrels touching at 100 yards. With the factory recommended loads of 80 gr. FFg it was terrible, but once I got up to 160 gr. Fg it really started to work well. As for the CVA, I worked with one for a while. The muzzles are adjustable to dial it in, but the overall quality left a lot to be desired.

[freedom475]

I have the 72cal Kodiak and it shoots well,..I have heard bad things about them but mine is a good one. Don't shoot it at paoer much but it will knock over sticks of firewood at 100yrds with either barrel.

I think the Kodiak 54 and the 58 are the same size as the 72 with just more metal in the barrels, so they are heavier.

If I was serious about getting the most power out of one to approach a dangerous game rifle I would probly choose the 58cal... but I like big holes and the 72 will really flatten a whitetail, even with only 75gr. of powder and a PRB.:castmine:

I think Cabela's has the Kodiaks on sale right now too.


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[smoked turkey]

Thanks for the replies to my query. I don't know what the draw is but for some reason I just know a double would be a great gun to shoot. I can see that it would be a fairly short range affair. I usually limit myself to 50 yards or so with open sights on my sidelocks. I have taken two whitetails with BP and they were within 40 yards. I have been told the CVA in 50 cal is very heavy at 14 lbs. I will check Cabela's to see what sales they have. There are three or four on Gunbroker now that I was comtemplating. I would prefer the Pedersoli, but I believe it is quite a bit more money. Based on that I am sure the quality is also quite a bit better. That is why I was asking about the overall quality of the CVA. Thanks again for the replies.

[451whitworth]

I think the Kodiak 54 and the 58 are the same size as the 72 with just more metal in the barrels, so they are heavier.




.[/QUOTE]

the .50, .54, .58 use the same barrel blanks. as such the .50 is very heavy and the .58 balances nice. the .72 uses shorter barrels based off the shotgun models. they thicken the barrels in the first foot compared to the shotguns. i owned a .50 and currently have a .72 and a .58 caliber. the .72 and .58 are well regulated but the .50 wasn't. the .50 shot one barrel higher than the other and crossed fired unless the bullets were well over 400 grains. it quit cross firing when using 430-450 gr. bullets but the barrels were 8 inches apart vertical at 50 yards. i eventually got rid of it because it wasn't regulated. it seems to be a **** shoot as to whether you get a good one or one that isn't regulated. i have heard this method of getting a good one: buy it from Cabela's. with their liberal return policy you can exchange it for another if it is a lemon. when testing for regulation in the .50 and .58 i've found that projectile weight makes way more difference than powder charge. in my .50 Kodiak round balls or maxiballs cross fired with powder charges from 70-120 grains. the .72 is a round ball gun so that takes care of projectile choice. if you buy one you should be able to get at least an idea if the regulation is something you can live with in one afternoon. for example if you bought a .50-.58 you would take to the range some RB's and some bullets. try 80grs. ,100grs. , 120 grs. with each projectile for regulation cleaning between shots.

[smoked turkey]

451whitworth, thanks for giving me the detail on regulation of barrels. Not having ever fired a double rifle, I had no idea of the procedure. I can see that it could be a real hassle trying to get one regulated and it is absolutely necessary to know where they shoot, especially in a hunting situation. I did check on Cabela's site and did see that the CVAs are on sale now. I did let one go by on one of the guns for sale sites. It could have been bought for $335. I balked due to the $58 shipping. I guess the high shipping is due to the weight and size of the package. Just a little too strong for me at this time. I am still looking. I would like to have it in .54, or .58 for general shooting and deer hunting. I have .50 & .54 in sidelock single shots and like both of them. They are TCs brand. i just think a double rifle would be a lot of fun. Thanks again.

[StrawHat]

i just think a double rifle would be a lot of fun. Thanks again.


The best reason to buy one!

[missionary5155]

Good evening
I wanted a double rifle... so I went the inexpensive route. I worked up Round ball loads in my double Fox B. I made a crude rear sight and discovered 32 grains of my favorite powder would group the two .685 balls 2 " apart at 35 yards. 50 yards is max range as the "Knuckle effect" really begins to take over. But I figure most elephants were shot at 35-50 yards so I am in the ball park. Plus the river bottoms I tend to hunt here in ILL do not lend themselves to much long distance shooting. Now if someone would just turn an elephant loose or even a big "Beefy".

[docone31]

I wanted a double rifle. I coveted one. After years of divorce, job changes, etc., I finally got my hands on one.
I didn't like it!
I have handled the Remington 30-06, and 45/70. I have handled the Pedersoli in .50.
Not only am I left handed, I did not like them!
I still dream of a Colt #1 with 200yd convergence.
Notice I said dream.
My Hawken does the trick. I got my wife a Dimmick in .54, and she loves the smell of BP.
We usually go to the range once a week.
I got a chance to handle a double. That is enough for me.

[Curtis44]

Dont expect perfect regulation from a $1000 double rifle. You might get lucky, but not likely. I have a pedersoli 58 kodiak. It is a great gun but for precise use I sight the barrels seperately using the 2 folding sights provided. For emergency use they hit close enough (within 3" or so @ 50 yd) using the same sight leaf. I just switch sight leaves after the first shot, if needed. The .58 RB is a wicked deer slayer, I harvested a nice 8pt whitetail 3 weeks ago with mine. I have used up to 120g FFG in mine, Conicals, etc, but my current load consists of 80gr FFG, a felt wad and a .570rb. Bottom line is I like the rifle a lot, but dont expect it to be perfectly regulated to the same sight leaf like a $25,000 british double. The 2 sight leaves are there for a reason.

[smoked turkey]

Curtis44, now you are talkin. I like the sound of the Pedersoli in 54 or 58. I believe it would be a great rifle to just shoot or hunt with. I will be on the look out for one at a reasonable price. I don't know what reasonable is, but I'll probably know it when I see it. I usually load 75 gr in my 50 and 54 sidelocks. Seems to be a well balance load and it is fairly accurate at 50 yards. I have moulds for both RB and Maxis for 50 & 54. I really would like to try a 58. Do you feel the Pedersoli Kodiak is fairly well made? I have seen comments on both sides of the quality issue. However most seem to feel it is a good rifle. Thanks.

[smoked turkey]

missionary5155 I appreciate the info on RB in a smoothbore. I have tried RB in an 870 and my NewEnglander 12 ga without good success. I have read quite a bit on this forum about it. From your posts I know you have done enough of it to become somewhat successful. I will move over to the shotgun section to query the topic using my 870. I will appreciate your feedback. Thanks.

[2shot]

I have had a Pedersoli Kodiak in 58 cal for over 20 years now, I like it but it's heavy. Mine shoots great with 85 gr. FFg and Lee R.E.A.L. with both barrels and shots touching each other at 70 yards using just one rear sight. Shoots patterns not groups with most other bullets and loads that I have tried including RB. I mostly use my Southern Mountain rifle for hunting nowadays and dispite it's 42" barrel it's easier to get around while hunting deer that the Kodiak.

2shot

[Curtis44]

Smoked Turkey, I am quite happy with my kodak. The quality is quite high IMO. It is head and shoulders above the usual import ML,s. No, is is not a Holland and Holland or a Purdey, but it is handsome and serviceable. The wood to metal fit is good and the locks are well made and reliable. It is heavy, but if you want a big bore double, that is part of the price you have to pay. You might be able to find a used one, but they are not too common in my neck of the woods.

[smoked turkey]

2shot I have pm-ed you with a question. Thanks.

[jim4065]

I'm kind of curious if anyone else has had a problem with MaxiBalls moving down the barrel of a double under "heavy" recoil? My CVA .50 would sometimes let a Maxi slide an inch or two when I touched off the other barrel with as little as 80 grains of 2F powder. I know that I've mentioned this before, but no one else has ever commented on it. Sold the rifle because of that - and severe regulation problems. It had a 1 in 48" twist, if memory serves.............:roll:

[docone31]

I might think, a .495 ball instead of .490 might make a difference.
I do not know though. I never had one.

[jim4065]

Maybe, but I never had a problem with patched RB's. Only with TC Maxi's and Lee REAL's.