Ever compare velocitys? PP vs. Lubed?

[HammerMTB]

I just got back from the range with my 45-70, and tried a fairly tame load. I will be patching the boolit later.
This got me to wondering if someone (surely someone else has thought of this) has compared the same load and boo with PP vs. a lubed boo
What did you do? How'd it turn out?
Oh, and my 340 gr did ~1500 avg in the 1895. Really a nice shooting load, not heavy or punishing at all. I'm sure I will be pushing this boolit as time goes forward.

[HammerMTB]

Well, after this long and many a view it seems no one has, or there isn't a comment.
So I am going to undertake the experiment myself.
I will load some 340 gr boolits PP'd and some more lubed with the usual Javelina lube. I think I better not push the boolit too hard as the lubed Boo's may lead up at higher vels.
It may be a while before I can bust some caps as I'm going on night shift for a while, and it's colder than a well-digger's *** out there right now.
Anyone care to venture a guess what might become of this experiment?

[303Guy]

OK. I'll take a guess.

I think that there is no real comparability as a plain cast boolit will begin to fail in the bore at a point where the paper patched begins to come into its own. Running a paper patched boolit at greased velocity may result in lower initial chamber pressure with a resultant lower muzzle velocity and possibly poor accuracy. Run the greaser at paper patched velocity and the boolit will be welding itself to the bore creating high drag and a resultant lower velocity.

How about the maximum attainable velocity that still prints better than J-word groups at say, 200yds? That will force out failed boolits from being measured. And of course, using the same batch of alloy!

[RMulhern]

All that's been done over on the Shiloh Board by Dan Theodore!![smilie=w:

[HammerMTB]

So, to continue this idea, I loaded some new Starline brass with 48.2 of IMR 4895
Put 10 PP'd 340 grainers in, and 10 lubed with Javelina.
Here's what happened:
PP'ed avg vel 1569
Lubed avg vel 1504
What I set out to find out is there.
I can PP a softer slug and get expansion in game with the 45-70 in my 1895G
I will need to continue to develop a load for this, as the PP boo can surely go to higher vels.

As an aside, I also found out that I can't have much paper sticking out above the brass. The gun won't close the breech on them. That's easy to fix.

As my first foray into PPing, it was also quite a show, having a little paper snowstorm out the muzzle each time I fired! [smilie=w:

Softer boos already in the works.... :cbpour:

[pdawg_shooter]

This is from an earlier post of mine. You might find it interesting:

The next rifle is my “fun gun” It is a Marlin 1895G. This short, handy, thumper is just fun to shoot. It is stock except for a Lyman 66 rear sight. After five years of trying I have finally found THE load for it. Does everything I want done and is still shootable. I started with new Remington brass, annealed the first ¾ inch using the melted lead method, belled with a Lee expander and primed with CCI 200. The powder charge is 52gr AA 2495. I started with 48 and worked up with no signs of pressure. This is a compressed load, even using a 16 inch drop tube. The magic bullet is cast in a Lyman 451114 mould. The alloy is 17 parts pure lead, 2 ½ parts linotype, and ½ part tin. The bullet drops from the mould .451 and is ready for patching. I make my patches from 16lb green bar computer paper, cut 2.750 long on a 60* angle 1.500 high. I dip in water and wrap twice around the bullet. They are left to dry overnight, then lubed with BAC from White Label Lube. The next day the tails are clipped and the bullet is run through a .459 Lee sizing die. I seat them to an OCL of 2.580. These shoot clover leaf groups at 25 yards and into 1.75 at 100. This is with a Lyman 66 rear sight and factory front sight. Not bad for 57 year old eyes. Bullet performance on game is all one could ask for. I’ll not quit experimenting, but how does one improve on perfection? I have taken two deer, and half a dozen or so coyotes with this gun. Maybe someday I will have a chance to go hog hunting.

[HammerMTB]

That is good info to have, pdawg! Thank you for it!
I don't have lino in my lead array, but can mix up something similar from what I do have....
I'll take it from your handle you get after those little varmints. Wish I was closer to some towns of 'em. When I lived further east I'd hunt rock chucks with my father.
Now I am relegated to tree squirrels in the back yard. They're not very big, but they are many... :bigsmyl2:
Question: Have you run that load over a chrono? I now check most all my loadings, and am developing a large database for my own guns, loads, and reference.

[montana_charlie]

That is good info to have, pdawg! Thank you for it!
I don't have lino in my lead array, but can mix up something similar from what I do have....
The actual ratio in percentages is 95.5/3/1.5 (Pb/Sn/Sb).
Sounds like a very useful alloy...

CM

[pdawg_shooter]

I have not chronoed this load. I have a chrono I have not used in years. Found out accuracy was much more important to me than speed! I shoot around 3000 .223 and around 1000 25-06 at pasture poodles every year. Keeps my eyes sharp!

[yondering]

The actual ratio in percentages is 95.5/3/1.5 (Pb/Sn/Sb).
Sounds like a very useful alloy...

CM

40/60 ww/pure plus tin should be right about the same alloy, or very close anyway. Pretty soft, probably just right for 1500-ish fps solid nose boolits (too soft for HP's).

[yondering]

As an aside, I also found out that I can't have much paper sticking out above the brass. The gun won't close the breech on them. That's easy to fix.



Sounds like you're on the right track, Gary. Try to get the edge of the paper just started into the rifling; too much and the bolt won't close, like you said. Too far back, and the paper may tear when it engages the rifling, then you get a leaded barrel. Been there done that. Unlubed lead at 2600 fps can make a mess in your bore.

[303Guy]

PP'ed avg vel 1569
Lubed avg vel 1504To keep things in perspective, that's a 9% increase in energy!

It would be interesting to know the chamber pressure difference.

Another interesting test would be dry patched versus lubed patched.