45Auto vs. 45Colt

[2ndAmendmentNut]

When it comes to revolvers, more specifically a S&W 25 or 625. Which caliber do you like better and why? I already load and cast for both calibers. I personally like both, but have to admit I like the 45Colt more. However the only experience with the 45Auto has been in a 1911. Also fill me in on the 45AR.

Thank you.

[MtGun44]

I have the convertible Ruger and strangely enough the .45 ACP seems to be a bit
more accurate than the 45LC. Not sure how this would impact the 25s and 625s.

Bill

[Trey45]

If the 1st 2 numbers of the caliber in question are "45" you simply can't go wrong.

[Wally]

I have the convertible Ruger and strangely enough the .45 ACP seems to be a bit
more accurate than the 45LC. Not sure how this would impact the 25s and 625s.

Bill

I have fouind this to be the case with my Ruger .45 convertible as well.

[StarMetal]

There's one big difference between the 45 acp and the 45 Colt in the Ruger Blackhawk. The 45 acp has all that throat in the cylinder to travel before it hits the barrel. I think that does something magical to it as my convertible shoots the 45 acp more accurately.

Joe

[Bullshop Junior]

I have a Ruger Blackhawk convertible, and I shoot both. I use the 45 ACP for small stuff, hunting small game, plinking, and what not, but then I go into bear country I drop in the Colt cylinder, and load it up with 350gr boolits.

In mine, the 45 ACP shoots more accurately, and is a lot more fun to shoot.

[Mk42gunner]

In a S&W, .45 ACP. Why? Because of full moon clips.


Robert

[captaint]

2nd Nut - you also asked about the 45AR. It's just an ACP case with a rim. No more moon clips. I just got a bunch myself, from Starline. Can't wait to load em up and get em dirty!! Mike

[Thumbcocker]

My Smith model of 1989 is scary accurate with Lyman 200 grn. swc and 231. Still I like my Bisley convertible. Like others have noticed the acp cylinder seems to shoot a smidgen better.

[Dale53]

When it comes to punching paper, you just flat cannot beat a 625 in .45 ACP. You can also load it to somewhat exceed original .45 Colt Specs.

However, if you are talking maximum available power between the two, the .45 Colt with it's greater case capacity is the champ.

It is interesting to note that John Linbaugh's wife's favorite is an S&W .45 Colt that she uses with a 454424 250-260 gr bullet at 900 fps for hunting antelope and mule deer. She has been quite successful. That level of performance is available in the .45 ACP and Auto Rim.

I have recently acquired a SS Ruger 5½" .45 Colt/.45 ACP Convertible but haven't shot it enough to have a firm opinion as to its relative strengths and weaknesses. I HAVE shot it enough to be very positive towards it, tho':mrgreen:.

Dale53

[shotman]

the 45acp[loads] do very good in a S&W 460 dont know you pulled the trigger if it wasnt for sound

[NickSS]

I like both calibers and have had revolvers including S$W model 25s in both. I have also had a couple of ruger convertables. The ACP is more accurate in either revolver. The 45 colt has more power and is accurate enough for most practical purposes. Today I do not own a revolver in 45 acp but have several in 45 colt. I reserve the acp for an auto pistol round.

[Bucks Owin]

The 45 colt has more power and is accurate enough for most practical purposes.
Reminds me of something Jack O'Connor once wrote: "Damned with praise so faint as to be inaudible"! Happily my own .45 BH has "enough accuracy for practical purposes" and will group -1.5" when I do my part, .456" throats and all.....;-) Dennis

[Changeling]

2nd Nut - you also asked about the 45AR. It's just an ACP case with a rim. No more moon clips. I just got a bunch myself, from Starline. Can't wait to load em up and get em dirty!! Mike

Does this mean the 45 AR can be used in a Ruger 45 Colt cylinder just like the 45LC case?

[runfiverun]

i have the 625 would love the colt version.
but have enough lattitude with the acp/ar brass that i haven't missed the colt version that bad.
so far everything from 160 to 250 gr boolits have done rather well and i is accurate.
i keep the moon clips full of federal classics for it as the house gun.
haven't gotten to working with the 454424 just yet but it does go with 452664 when out and about.
i went with the 4" and if i'd known i'd have liked it this much i think i would have bought a 5" to go with it.
it's just an easy to carry, easy to shoot, accurate little gun with options in ammo.
oh yeah put a high vis front sight on yours if you get one.

no the ar rim is thicker.

[45 2.1]

does this mean the 45 ar can be used in a ruger 45 colt cylinder just like the 45lc case?

no..............

[Catshooter]

I've never seen a Ruger convertable that you could use Auto Rim brass in. Mine will, when I get to it because I'm gonna fix it. All Ruger had to do was make the cylinder a touch shorter in the rear (.028" in mine) and they'd fit.

Boneheads.


Cat

[softpoint]

I have a pair of 625's and a Ruger convertible in.45 . If the goal is a 240- to 250 grain bullet at about 1000 fps, the Smith Revolvers will do that with ease, and punch right through most things south of Canada. They are more efficient with loads up to that level, and produce fine accuracy. If having .44 magnum level power is a necessity, then the Blackhawk would be the better choice, get both cylinders. I had my ACP cylinder modified to shoot AR. I generally keep hunting loads around in AR cases, 250 grains, 13.5 grains 2400. Ikeep my target loads in ACP cases ,usually around 5 grains 231 with a 200 gr. (452460) and I can also shoot that load in my 1911's.:p

[ovendoctor]

was shooting a 4-6'' group at 50' sizing the 255gr Keith to .452

bumped it up to .454 and the group shrank to 1.5''

the recoil is a little stiffer but the cases dont show excessive pressure

Doc.

[azrednek]

I had my ACP cylinder modified to shoot AR.

Can you still shoot it with ACP brass after having the cylinder modified for Auto Rim?? Did you do the modification? If not who did it for you? I might have my Ruger convertible done if it will still shoot ACP brass.

[StarMetal]

Can you still shoot it with ACP brass after having the cylinder modified for Auto Rim??

On my convertible cylinder the ACP case goes in the chamber almost to the front of the rim. I believe all that would need taken off the rear of the cylinder to let Auto Rim cases fit would be the thickness of a moon clip. So in other words I believe most the case would be i the chamber, just the extractor groove showing. Me personally I'd get another ACP cylinder to modify so the gun is still original.

Joe

[Dale53]

I am not sure I understand the desire to modify the Ruger .45 ACP cylinder to accommodate the use of .45 Auto Rim. If you want a rimmed case, the .45 Colt cylinder is there. If you want a short rimmed case, then you can use .45 Cowboy Special cases in the .45 Colt cylinder.

The use of .45 Auto Rim cases in an S&W 625 (chambered in .45 ACP) is quite useful as it eliminates the NEED for full moon clips necessary for proper ejection when using .45 ACP cases. However, in the Ruger Single Action, since you eject the ACP's just like you do a rimmed case, what is the driving force behind wanting/needing the Auto Rim case?

I'm not intending to be critical here, just trying to understand...

Dale53

[azrednek]

i am not sure i understand the desire to modify the ruger .45 acp cylinder to accommodate the use of .45 auto rim. If you want a rimmed case, the .45 colt cylinder is there. If you want a short rimmed case, then you can use .45 cowboy special cases in the .45 colt cylinder.

i was thinking more along the lines as another poster suggested and getting another cylinder for use with 45ar. It is hard to explain why other than the simplicity and convenience because the majority of my loading and shooting the past two years has been with 45ar. There really isn't a need, it is not necessary but just like i have been asked why i re-barreled a stevens rifle from 300 to 458 win mag. Other than "i want one" don't really have a legitimate reason. I guess i'm using the same logic as many of the younger shooters i see at the range with their black rifles loaded with all kinds of bells and whistles on picanny rails i consider pretty useless. Guess it gives one's gun and the gun's owner a unique personality and bragging rights on having a custom gun.

the use of .45 auto rim cases in an s&w 625 (chambered in .45 acp) is quite useful as it eliminates the need for full moon clips necessary for proper ejection when using .45 acp cases. However, in the ruger single action, since you eject the acp's just like you do a rimmed case, what is the driving force behind wanting/needing the auto rim case?

I'm not intending to be critical here, just trying to understand...

dale i know exactly where you're coming from and i certainly understand your curiosity on something that most consider an unnecessary bell and whistle. Don't mind your questions at all. Wish i could have given you a better answer and hope you don't take me as being rude with the best reason in currently in my mind, "i want one". Chances are good once i see the cost of the project it will likely go on my short list of projects awaiting my winning lottery ticket!!

dale53

////////// /////// //

[Dale53]

azrednek;
"I WANT ONE" is a perfectly good answer!!:drinks:

I am an Auto Rim man myself (on track to shooting about 5000+ this year through my two 625's).

My recent acquisition of a Ruger SS Bisley .45 Colt/.45 ACP convertible was prompted by a MUCH better reason (NOT):mrgreen:. I, ahem!, needed one for "Academic Reasons"...:veryconfu

Well, it can certainly be argued that I need one to explore the reloading possibilities of a "Convertible". In my youth, I had a new 1955 Buick Super Convertible (Robin's egg above and Royal Blue below) that I certainly explored "reloading" but that is not QUITE the same thing...

Dale53

[StrawHat]

When it comes to revolvers, more specifically a S&W 25 or 625. Which caliber do you like better and why? I already load and cast for both calibers. I personally like both, but have to admit I like the 45Colt more. However the only experience with the 45Auto has been in a 1911. Also fill me in on the 45AR.

Thank you.

I have a couple of N frames in 45 ACP and one chambered for the Long Colt. I find the ACP revolvers to be more accurate but I have worked with load development much more with those revolvers. For the Long Colt, I have stuck with the 454424 bullet and Unique powder. Hopefully, I will be using the 283 GB boolit in it this summer. Same with the ACP, looking to find a load for the 283 GB.

As you have a lot of experience with the Long Colt, get one of those, first. I recommend a 4" but ...


Good Luck

[anachronism]

I detest moon clips.

[Mk42gunner]

I am not sure I understand the desire to modify the Ruger .45 ACP cylinder to accommodate the use of .45 Auto Rim. If you want a rimmed case, the .45 Colt cylinder is there. If you want a short rimmed case, then you can use .45 Cowboy Special cases in the .45 Colt cylinder.

The use of .45 Auto Rim cases in an S&W 625 (chambered in .45 ACP) is quite useful as it eliminates the NEED for full moon clips necessary for proper ejection when using .45 ACP cases. However, in the Ruger Single Action, since you eject the ACP's just like you do a rimmed case, what is the driving force behind wanting/needing the Auto Rim case?

I'm not intending to be critical here, just trying to understand...

Dale53

Dale, I think it is just the desire to make your gun more versitile, by allowing the use of auto rim brass. As I understand it the AR was basically dead until Starline started making brass for it a few years ago.

I am currently fitting a .45ACP cylinder to my Bisley Vaquero; it works, but the barrel cylider gap is a little tight. Right now I don't forsee modifying it for AR brass; the only reason I would do it is if I came into several thousand rounds of brass free.


My recent acquisition of a Ruger SS Bisley .45 Colt/.45 ACP convertible was prompted by a MUCH better reason (NOT). I, ahem!, needed one for "Academic Reasons"...

Come on Dale, you don't need to make excuses; we're all a bunch of enablers around here.:wink:



Robert

[45 2.1]

I detest moon clips.



But there the fastest 45 wheelgun reload you'll have. What you don't like is the loading/unloading process those clips entail.

[Bucks Owin]

was shooting a 4-6'' group at 50' sizing the 255gr Keith to .452

bumped it up to .454 and the group shrank to 1.5''

the recoil is a little stiffer but the cases dont show excessive pressure

Doc. Yep, and I bet your throats are on the generous side too. Mine did the same thing at 75'. Went from lousy to excellent accuracy. (I can't feel any difference in recoil between .452" and .454" though!?!) FWIW, Dennis

[Dale53]

When you choose barrel length, keep in mind that both of these calibers make good deer hunting pieces. Check your State Regulations and be sure that both the caliber you choose and the barrel length is legal.

In Ohio "or handgun with 5-in. minimum length barrel, using straight-walled cartridges .357 caliber or larger"

So, here, either caliber is legal but the barrel length minimum is 5". If you only have one handgun then barrel length becomes VERY important.

I have a Red Dot on both of my 625 ACP's and have come to slightly prefer the 5" barrel length. However, the 4" shoots VERY well and is a bit less bulky with the 1" shorter barrel IF you are not going to be using this for hunting.

I have shot all of my deer with .44 Magnums. However, for woods hunting, I doubt that we would see any difference in performance of a properly loaded .44 Special, .44 Magnum, .45 ACP/AUTO Rim (with a 250 gr Keith or LBT WFN bullet), or a .45 Colt at 100 yards or under.

I know that statement will set a lot of you fellows and gals back on your heels but I sincerely believe that. Many have been successful with the .357 magnum on deer but I would rather have a 250 gr .452 Keith or WFN at 900-1000 fps than a .357" at 1400 for this work. My preference would be a little bit stouter, say a .45 Colt with a 250 gr .452 bullet at 1000-1200 fps (that would put the performance level right up there with my beloved .44 Magnums), but still, I would NOT feel undergunned with a good 625 .45 ACP at the performance levels I have discussed.

Dale53

[1874Sharps]

Dale53,

You may very well be right about the efficacy of the slower-moving big bore heavy boolits on game. Consider how many deer and men (on both sides of the law) have been killed by the 44 WCF (44-40). Yes, perhaps the velocity was a bit higher coming out of a carbine vice a pistol, but still the big bores are formidible.

[anachronism]

But there the fastest 45 wheelgun reload you'll have. What you don't like is the loading/unloading process those clips entail.

Not really. If you lose your moon clips, you may as well chuck the gun in the creek. Most 625s won't headspace & fire loose ammo. My last one didn't. A friend has gone through a couple of them & neither of his would headspace & fire loose ammo either. He shoots mostly AR brass anymore, and I went to the 44 magnum as my large bore. Bent moon clips aren't much fun either.

[35remington]

I hate bent moon clips. These misfire as the spring clips absorb the firing pin blow and saps some of the hammer's energy.

Also, if the clips have considerable fouling, this can cushion the firing pin blow and lead to misfires. Clips should always be free of excessive dirt and lube and mine are.

My first six shots are always AR cases. FWIW. These HAVE TO fire, and I load the ammo most likely to do so.

Reloads can be and are in clips. But I also have two speedloaders in Auto Rim and these are preferred to the clips when it really matters.

Now, Jerry Miculek can set records in shooting and reloading with his clips, but I most often prefer running revolvers with ammo that has a rim when it truly matters. Besides, no matter what, I ain't gonna be as fast as Jerry anyway, so I go for the reliable and less likely to be damaged speedloader.

Introducing an additional piece of metal that increases headspace slack (the clips often have to drag other cartridges forward into their chambers when hit by the firing pin and this weakens the firing pin blow; an Auto Rim cartridge does not) always has the potential to decrease the reliability of the revolver. Sometimes it does just that if the clips are not carefully looked after. If the revolver is fired at an upward angle, the firing pin and clip will have to drag several cartridges forward into their chambers before the full firing pin blow can be delivered to the primer being struck.

Not good!

But I admit to using full moon clips quite a lot, and my homemade demooner pipe makes it reasonably convenient to deal with them.

[azrednek]

I don't mind full moon clips. Fortunately I started scarfing them up years ago when they were as dirt cheap as Garrand clips. I trashed all my half-moon clips years ago. As I accumulate more AR brass I'm using the clips less.



Also, if the clips have considerable fouling, this can cushion the firing pin blow and lead to misfires. Clips should always be free of excessive dirt and lube and mine are.

I toss my clips into the tumbler along with the brass.

[Mk42gunner]

I had a Model 25-2 that had been reworked by Ron Power, it would headspace and fire surplus .45's without a problem. I ended up selling it for a couple of reasons:
1. It shot extremely high with 230 Grain ball, and I didn't like the tall front sight needed to bring it to point of aim. (It would put 185's in tiny clusters on top of the front sight).
2. A Commander waived way more money at me than I had in it.

I made a fullmoon unloader with a six inch piece of 1/2" copper and an end cap, file a step on the open end and twist the cases out of the clip.

Robert

[StrawHat]

When you choose barrel length, keep in mind that both of these calibers make good deer hunting pieces. Check your State Regulations and be sure that both the caliber you choose and the barrel length is legal.

In Ohio "or handgun with 5-in. minimum length barrel, using straight-walled cartridges .357 caliber or larger"

So, here, either caliber is legal but the barrel length minimum is 5". If you only have one handgun then barrel length becomes VERY important.

Very true and good advice, I did not consider that when I made the recommendation of the 4" barrel. I still prefer the 4" but do use the 6" here in Ohio for whitetailed deer.



However, for woods hunting, I doubt that we would see any difference in performance of a properly loaded .44 Special, .44 Magnum, .45 ACP/AUTO Rim (with a 250 gr Keith or LBT WFN bullet), or a .45 Colt at 100 yards or under.

but still, I would NOT feel undergunned with a good 625 .45 ACP at the performance levels I have discussed.

Dale53


I have not yet used the 45 ACP so loaded but I do use the Ketih bullet over a full case of black powder for deer. So far I have not recovered a slug.

[StrawHat]

Not really. If you lose your moon clips, you may as well chuck the gun in the creek. Most 625s won't headspace & fire loose ammo. My last one didn't. A friend has gone through a couple of them & neither of his would headspace & fire loose ammo either. He shoots mostly AR brass anymore, and I went to the 44 magnum as my large bore. Bent moon clips aren't much fun either.


Sorry to hear that S&W went the Colt 1917 route with bored through cylinders. It must have been a $$ thing. Too bad, the 25-2s that I am used to all give great performance with ACP ammo clipped or naked and with AR ammo.

[NHlever]

I just bought a Ruger 4 5/8" .45 Colt convertable. It's back in the shop (Ruger) for some sight issues right now, but I'm sure looking forward to loading for it, and shooting it. I too see no reason why the ACP cylinder wouldn't work just fine for walkabout hunting, whitetails, or the occassional Russian wild boar we see around here. By the way, I once read that a 158-180 grain cast semiwadcutter or WFN at 1100 fps out of a .357 will do anything that caliber will do out of a handgun for hunting, and tend to agree with that. Rifles, of course are a different story.

[Wayne Dobbs]

Dale53,

I totally agree with your statement about any of the standard large caliber handguns loaded with decent bullets for deer hunting (and black bear and elk, etc.). If you knock a big hole through the vitals of an animal you soon have a dead animal. We don't need all that extra velocity at close range. At long range, it flattens trajectory somewhat, but I'm not sure many folks can really take advantage of that.

Regarding John Linebaugh's suggestion of a 250-260 SWC at 900. I read that article many times and have implemented his suggestion in my .45 ACP 625 4". My load is 6.5 grains of Unique and a Mt. Baldy 255 Keith in Starline Auto Rim brass. Shoots great and kills deer very nicely. I've killed four deer with this pistol in the past two seasons. None went further than 25 yards (which is much better than the rifle shot deer I've observed) and the big hole went all the way through and obviously, no bullets have been or likely will be recovered.

It sure makes hunting lots more fun.

Wayne

[Dale53]

Wayne Dobbs;
Thanks for your comments. I HAD to qualify my statement as all of my deer were taken with the .44 magnum. However, on one particular hunt, I had run out of my hunting load (didn't realize I was so low) and ended up using my practice load (a 250 gr Keith at 1200 fps). Even tho' this was from a .44 magnum, that performance level can be reached with a .44 Special heavy load. You know what, the deer never knew the difference.

It is nice to have my statement confirmed with your ACTUAL experience.

Dale53

[Changeling]

Wayne Dobbs;
Thanks for your comments. I HAD to qualify my statement as all of my deer were taken with the .44 magnum. However, on one particular hunt, I had run out of my hunting load (didn't realize I was so low) and ended up using my practice load (a 250 gr Keith at 1200 fps). Even tho' this was from a .44 magnum, that performance level can be reached with a .44 Special heavy load. You know what, the deer never knew the difference.

It is nice to have my statement confirmed with your ACTUAL experience.

Dale53

Dale I always look forward to what you have to say, and you don't need to qualify your statement.
Your 250 gr. Keith at 1200 fps is not a practice load, Hell, that will do it all.

Remember that LaunBaughs (spelling) wife and son took antelope and Mule deer at give or take 100 yards with complete pass through with Keith 260's at 900 fps.

In Keiths "6 guns" I am pretty sure he was shooting his 250's in 44/45 at 900 to 1000 fps at some short and extraordinary ranges that seemed to make him very happy, and if I remember correctly he had pass through most of the time.

Now if that kind of velocity from documented weight bullets by a couple of the greatest authorities on handguns is not qualified in itself, golly what the heck would be?

[Bass Ackward]

You won't go wrong either way, but I have always found that a fuller case that reaches the velocity of interest with the bullet weight of interest is the best way to proceed.

Poor ignition from powder position sensitivity is a PIA.

Well, after all the advice given, which one did you pick?

[softpoint]

Can you still shoot it with ACP brass after having the cylinder modified for Auto Rim?? Did you do the modification? If not who did it for you? I might have my Ruger convertible done if it will still shoot ACP brass.

Yes, ACP brass works fine. I didn't mill off the rear of the cylinder, I had Allan Harton from here in Houston cut a small countersink in each chamber to accept the thick rim of the AR case. Since the ACP headspaces on the mouth ,that dimension stayed the same. I had him recut the forcing cone on that gun and hone out the cylinder throats on both cylinders. That gun shoots every bit as good as the Smiths I have now. Allan does very good work:cbpour:

[softpoint]

I am not sure I understand the desire to modify the Ruger .45 ACP cylinder to accommodate the use of .45 Auto Rim. If you want a rimmed case, the .45 Colt cylinder is there. If you want a short rimmed case, then you can use .45 Cowboy Special cases in the .45 Colt cylinder.

The use of .45 Auto Rim cases in an S&W 625 (chambered in .45 ACP) is quite useful as it eliminates the NEED for full moon clips necessary for proper ejection when using .45 ACP cases. However, in the Ruger Single Action, since you eject the ACP's just like you do a rimmed case, what is the driving force behind wanting/needing the Auto Rim case?

I'm not intending to be critical here, just trying to understand...

Dale53

I didn't modify the Blackhawk out a need to use theAR brass specifically, since I have 2 Smith 625's and a couple 1911's around too, Idid it for separating loads.I use the AR brass with heavier cast bullet loads and use them in the revolvers only.The use of the AR brass also allows me to roll crimp those loads as well. I use the ACP brass for all the lighter loadings and taper crimp. Ican use these in either the revolvers or the 1911's:)

[ddixie884]

Good stuff......

[lotech]

I started loading .45 Colt in 1977 and have had a number of revolvers, a rifle and a carbine. I mostly used bullets cast from a Lyman #454424 4- cavity mould. I only have one .45 Colt revolver left, a 25-5 that I bought new forty years ago. Since working with the .44 Special in several S&W revolvers, I've seen slightly better accuracy and the cartridge will do all the .45 Colt will with bullets up to about 250 grains or a little more. I can't see a use for heavier bullets in a handgun . I'll probably sell my 25-5 as I don't shoot it anymore.

I like the Auto Rim cartridge in several S&W revolvers. I don't care for moon clips but do have the added gadgetry to deal with the clips if necessary. I've used the #454424 in Auto Rim brass; very accurate, but substantial recoil in comparison with a more suitable bullet like a #68 or copy.

.45 ACP in a Colt 1911-type or perhaps a good quality facsimile of the Colt has generally been more accurate for me than any revolver. One exception has been a Sig 220 I bought new about twenty or so years ago. Surprisingly, it's accuracy level has been comparable to an accurate 1911-type.

[black mamba]

Have any of you with 45 ACP/Colt convertibles measured the throats of both cylinders? I'm just wondering if the consensus of more accurate ACP cylinders has anything to do with throat diameters.

Another test I'd like to see done is loading both ACP and Colt rounds with the same bullets seated to the same OAL with the same powder charges. Would there be any difference in accuracy then? You would need a long bullet, seated out in the ACP and deep seated in the Colt, but I think it could be done.

[lotech]

Have any of you with 45 ACP/Colt convertibles measured the throats of both cylinders? I'm just wondering if the consensus of more accurate ACP cylinders has anything to do with throat diameters.

Another test I'd like to see done is loading both ACP and Colt rounds with the same bullets seated to the same OAL with the same powder charges. Would there be any difference in accuracy then? You would need a long bullet, seated out in the ACP and deep seated in the Colt, but I think it could be done.

I haven't done anything close to what you're inquiring about, but for those interested, I did try some lighter bullets, intended for .45 ACP or Auto Rim, in in my .45 Colt Winchester Trapper carbine with 16" barrel. I think I used four popular bullet designs in the 200-210 grain range. All shot poorly. Whether this was due to the 1 in 38" barrel twist rate or some other factor, I don't know, but the carbine is quite accurate using the Lyman #454424 design (about 250-260 grains).

[charlie b]

I guess I am odd man out. Had a Ruger convertible and the ACP setup was not as accurate for me as the LC.

I bought the .45LC to use heavy loads as a field gun when hunting. When I stopped hunting I sold it.

If you are going to limit yourself to the original factory level LC loads then the ACP/AR makes more sense. Case capacity means more efficient powder burn for the ACP/AR.

[Char-Gar]

Note: There are 45 Cowboy Special cases, now sold by Starline. There are nothing more that 45 ACP cases drawn with a 45 Colt rim. They will need a trip through the ACP resizer before their first use. What is the point your ask? They can be used in Ruger and other SAs with 45 ACP cylinders without doing any modification needed to the cylinder, as in the case of the 45 Auto Rim. Far easier to change the cartridge case than modify the cylinder.

[Dale53]

Note: There are 45 Cowboy Special cases, now sold by Starline. There are nothing more that 45 ACP cases drawn with a 45 Colt rim. They will need a trip through the ACP resizer before their first use. What is the point your ask? They can be used in Ruger and other SAs with 45 ACP cylinders without doing any modification needed to the cylinder, as in the case of the 45 Auto Rim. Far easier to change the cartridge case than modify the cylinder.

Char-Gar;
That is absolutely correct. I have been using the .45 Cowboy Special cases in my SS Ruger Bisley Convertible (ACP cylinder) for some years now with heavy bullets that require a roll crimp. They indeed work perfectly in the ACP cylinder of the Bisley just like the Auto Rim cases work in the S&W's (25 and 625's).

FWIW
Dale53

[Char-Gar]

Char-Gar;
That is absolutely correct. I have been using the .45 Cowboy Special cases in my SS Ruger Bisley Convertible (ACP cylinder) for some years now with heavy bullets that require a roll crimp. They indeed work perfectly in the ACP cylinder of the Bisley just like the Auto Rim cases work in the S&W's (25 and 625's).

FWIW
Dale53

Some years back (about 26), I bought a U.S.Ptd.F.A. clone of an early Colt SA civilian revolver. That was when they were made with Uberti parts fitted and finished "under the Blue Dome". It is lovely revolver, but came with those hog wallow chambers with .457 throats. I sent it back for a 45 ACP cylinder and it came back, with a great cylinder with .453 throats. I shoot 242 grain Keith bullets over 4.5/Bulleye in the 45 CS case. The accuracy is great and shoot to those itty bitty sights. These loads also turn in outstand results in my Lipsey 45 Colt/45 ACP Flattop using the ACP cylinder.

[Roger Kehr]

I have a 3" S&W 625. Made in '88. Tight barrel and tight cylinder throats. I went to a lot of trouble getting the cast bullets matched to the cylinder throats and I still have a problem with misfires with the moonclips. Finally gave up and shoot jacketed bullets in the moon clips and cast bullets in the auto rim case. Shoots like a house afire, btw.

[Earlwb]

I think that one thing that people missed was that the 45 Colt originally started as a black powder cartridge. it needed more room for the powder charge. when modern smokeless powder came along the case now has a lot of empty space inside as the smokeless powder charge is less. the 45 ACP was a modern version in that they could shorten the case considerably since smokeless powder takes up less volume. The short fat case winds up being much more efficient than the long partially empty cases for the 45 Colt. The propellant charge has little to no space inside to allow it to move around and change how it ignites overall. That results in better accuracy. They have shown this effect with the modern rifle cartridges where the case is designed to hold a specific charge of propellant with little to no empty space. The short fat cartridge cases work better than the old style large long cases in rifles. This happened when smokeless propellants evolved over time rendering older cartridge designs obsolete in a sense for best accuracy. Thus some better inherent accuracy happens due to the propellant charge burning the same each time when fired. The effect results in much less muzzle velocity difference between the shots. Otherwise the bench rest target shooters would not all be using them. For example the 6mm, 6.5mm, 7mm bench rest rounds and rounds like the 6.5 Creedmoor or the 224 Valkyre.

Now granted there are lots of other factors involved too. But every little bit helps.

[bisleyfan41]

Note: There are 45 Cowboy Special cases, now sold by Starline. There are nothing more that 45 ACP cases drawn with a 45 Colt rim. They will need a trip through the ACP resizer before their first use. What is the point your ask? They can be used in Ruger and other SAs with 45 ACP cylinders without doing any modification needed to the cylinder, as in the case of the 45 Auto Rim. Far easier to change the cartridge case than modify the cylinder.


Char-Gar;
That is absolutely correct. I have been using the .45 Cowboy Special cases in my SS Ruger Bisley Convertible (ACP cylinder) for some years now with heavy bullets that require a roll crimp. They indeed work perfectly in the ACP cylinder of the Bisley just like the Auto Rim cases work in the S&W's (25 and 625's).

FWIW
Dale53

I did not know this! Wow, a whole new frontier opened. Thank you!

[ddixie884]

That Star-Line .45 Cowboy brass is really nice for use in SA .45acp cylinders and it is really handy that case capacity is so similar to .45acp for near identical loads..........

[frogleg]

Does this mean the 45 AR can be used in a Ruger 45 Colt cylinder just like the 45LC case?

No , the Rim is too thick

[Liberty1776]

Pietta makes the 1873 Great Western II -- a single action .45 Colt clone that comes with two cylinders -- .45LC and .45ACP.

[Outpost75]

Does this mean the 45 AR can be used in a Ruger 45 Colt cylinder just like the 45LC case?

Negative. The AR rim is .09" thick to equal the thickness of the .45 ACP rim plus the clip. Some people face off the rear of the cylinder to use AR brass, but the Starline .45 Cowboy Special is a .45 ACP draw with a .45 Colt rim and head turn, which requires no mod to the gun and is a better solution.

[6string]

I am thankful we live in a country where we can take our choice: ACP, "Long" Colt, or both!

Sorry to hear that recent S&W 625s don't cut their chambers to allow headspacing off the case mouth. The old "pre 25", such as 1950 target or 1955 target were cut with careful attention to chamber dimensions. They headspace consistently off the case mouth. You'll get best accuracy paying attention to case length. If you use moon clips, I'd caution that you pay attention to their influence on headspace. Lap a steel full moon clip on a lapping plate and see how bad they can be.
In fact, dress them down thin enough that they're only being used to facilitate loading and unloading. Your down range groups will thank you for it!

[Cowhide]

I was real lucky to find a Ruger new Vacaro in 45 auto 3 3/4 " barrel stainless with black birds-head grip new from the factory last year.
I still shot my Ruger new Vacaro in 45 colt 3 3/4 " barrel high gloss stainless with rose wood cowboy grip
Before these 2 additions I only shot 45 auto out of my 1911's even though I own a Ruger Black hawk 45 colt 5 " barrel blued convertible rose wood cowboy grip and a Ruger Black Hawk 45 colt 5 " engraved cylinder stainless convertible black Beisly grip I just never liked the accuracy I got when using the 45 auto cylinders from either of the convertibles.
So when a Ruger Black Hawk engraved cylinder 45 colt 7" " barrel grey Beisly grips stainless was available I bought it. Just to see if there was any difference to my 7.5 " 3 screw Black hawk in 45 colt plain wood cowboy grip which is my favorite 45 colt revolver tp use. But shooting 45 colt out of my Marline 1894 CB hex barrel is the best of all.