Noob needing advice for Marlin 336

[Quoheleth]

Hi, all. New to the forums. Been loading & shooting cast lead out of my pistols for almost three years - .38, .357, 9mm, .45ACP, and now .41 Magnum. I recently inherited my father's Marlin 336 and want to try running cast through it as a less expensive alternative to jacketed stuff.

Here's what I know:

I need to thoroughly & carefully scrub the barrel and bore to make sure it's nice and clean.
I need a slightly larger cast bullet - these are sized .311.


Here's what I have:

Lee pacesetter dies for .30-30 Winchester
170 gr plain-based .311-sized cast lead bullets, cast ~ BHN of 18.
once-fired brass, not from my gun
Various powders for pistols: Bullseye, Unique, AA#5, AA#9, Titegroup, and Universal


Here's what I don't have:

Case trimmers
Case gauges

(Somehow managed to forget those off of my Midway shopping list...)

I have a couple of questions:

How necessary are the trimmers and gauges for the .30-30 in the Marlin? Can I make do, or do I really need these to be effective & safe?
Besides all of the usual cautions of reloading, anything tricky about the .30-30?
Any recommendations using these pistol powders for a mild, plinking load? I know I've read 5gr Unique is a nice shooter. What about more of a full(er) house hunting load? Would I be better served with a true rifle powder? If so, recommendations?


Thanks in advance,
Q

[Loudenboomer]

Welcome to cast boolits! If you have once fired brass you can get by without a trimmer for now. Try segregate the brass by brand and do a good job with the full length resize. Watch for crimp uniformity. (If brass length is off to much this can give you fits.) I've used AA#5 @ 7 grs and a 120 gr Lyman pb boolit for a plinker. This charge should also work fine with your 170 gr pb boolit. For full power loads you'd be better off with a gas checked boolit and slower powders. My 336 hunting load is a air cooled 170 lee FNGC (177 gr checked and lubed) over a stout charge of 748 a shade over 2000 fps. Happy shootin

[Glen]

For a plain-based bullet you will probably have better luck if you keep velocities down below 1600-1700 fps.

Full-length size your brass. Then you need to flare the case mouths before you try to seat a cast bullet, otherwise the seating operation WILL damage the bullet and very poor accuracy will result. There are a number of ways that you can do this, but a Lyman M die is probably the simplest.

You have a list of fine pistol powders, and good plinking loads can be assembled with some of those powders, but I have had very good luck with 4198 in loads at this level in a variety of cartridges and prefer to start there. I would start off with about 16 grains of 4198 underneath your commercial 170 PB bullet (which should give you about 1600 fps), and work up to 18-20 grains, seeing which combination groups best in your rifle. I would expect to match, or beat, the accuracy level of factory ammunition with these loads.

For a full-thottle hunting load, you will need a gas-checked bullet, and go with slower rifle powders like 3031, H335, 4895, 748, 2460, etc. -- all of which perform beautifully in the .30-30 with cast bullets.

[Mike'em]

Just incase you get the urge to own some 170g Sierra the cannelure may as well not be there. I love Sierra boolits for high volicety apps, so dont judge. The lack of a cannelure might cause you to damage the case while loading or cause the 170 to compress the powder while fireing. I wish it were deeper but that is why i pour my own.

[NickSS]

With once fired brass you do not need a trimmer but you eventually will need one. A cheap way to go is with the lee hand trimmer for 30-30. The shell holder that grabs the rim can be chucked up in a hand drill and the other end fed in by hand. This makes short work of trimming. You will also need a case mouth chamfering tool. These are inexpensive and you can heavily chamfer the interior of the case mouth and this will allow you to seat bullets with less trouble. You can also get a lee universal case expander to bell the mouth a bit. I loaded cast lead PB bullets for years before I got an M die to modify it. I did this after I started using the 30-30 with lead bullets for target matches at 200 yards and I was trying to improve accuracy (it didn't do much but makes for easier seating).

[NickSS]

Oh I forgot about load data. I have had really good luck with 9 or 10 gr of Unique with a 170 gr bullet. My Marlin, winchesters and rolling block shoot them very well out to 200 yards.

[Quoheleth]

Thanks, guys. I was hoping my forgetting a $5 item wouldn't keep me from some load building today.

On case gauges: is the Lee case gauge (with trimmer & base, which I DO have) enough or should I really really get something like this, too: http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=588354

I will confess...these are commercial boolits. I don't cast my own. I barely have time to load & shoot, let alone cast.

Q

[kbstenberg]

Hello Quoheleth an welcome to the silver stream. If you put your courser on the Cast BOOLIT LOGO above an left click you get to the stickies (past threads). LOTS of important information on all kinds of subjects, lots on your 30/30 concerning loads / boolits / guns
Have fun ; read a lot ; learn buy asking
Kevin

[imashooter2]

No, you don't need the Wilson case gauge. The Lee case gauge with trimmer and base is a case trimmer, so I'm a bit confused. Is this what you have?

http://media.midwayusa.com/ProductImages/Medium/432027.jpghttp://media.midwayusa.com/ProductImages/Medium/476992.jpg

If so, you're good to go for case trimming...

[Quoheleth]

kbstenberg: thanks. I had been reading those links, too. I posted out of excitement - bullets should arrive today! - and frustration that I forgot the gauge/trimmer parts and hoped I could still reload today.

imashooter: Well, that's what I forgot to order. I keep calling it a gauge because Lee calls it that. The trimmer/base is what I have - the doo-dad with the cutting teeth (on the right in your pic). The gauge is the needle-like screw-in rod on the left. That's what I forgot to order.

Not trying to be a putz; just using Lee's own terms.

Q

[imashooter2]

Well then just pick up the Lee gauge at next order and you'll be good to go. The Wilson gauge is just a check tool. Your rifle's chamber will serve that function. Check your set up by chambering a sized case.

[iron mule]

Q that needle like screw thing is a trim length gauge /// don't worry about not using the wrong words we all do but sometimes it just gets us old geezers more confused sply if we havn't had the cup of geritol laced coffee yet// take the advice above it is all god and welcome here
mule

[jlchucker]

Thanks, guys. I was hoping my forgetting a $5 item wouldn't keep me from some load building today.

On case gauges: is the Lee case gauge (with trimmer & base, which I DO have) enough or should I really really get something like this, too: http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=588354

I will confess...these are commercial boolits. I don't cast my own. I barely have time to load & shoot, let alone cast.

Q

I've loaded several calibers since I began in 1971. I measure my cases with a dial caliper, and have used those Lee case gauges with the trimmer and base. I've NEVER used one of those Wilson gauges, nor felt the need to. I'm not knocking them--it's just that for general purposes I don't feel they are necessary. One thing you may consider though, if you are on a tight budget, is a Lee Universal Cast Bullet expanding die, if you feel that the Lyman M die that NickSS referres to is a bit pricey. The Lee version is adjustable for a variety of calibers and case lengths. There are other ways that you can improvise and put the necessary little flare on your cases for the reloading process, but you'll probably want the correct die to do this step with eventually anyway. Good luck.

[Tony65x55]

Hi Quohelith and welcome. There's a phenomenal amount of info and great folks on this board and all your questions will be answered. You've obviously been doing some reading here and you sound like your making all the right steps. The guys are right about the Lee trimmer. I have a big Lyman bench trimmer I haven't used in 25 years because the Lee trimmers are so cheap, accurate and easy to use.

As for loads, 7 grains of Bullseye will give you great shooting. You don't need any filler and it's very accurate. Just be VERY careful about double charges. With this small amount of powder it's easy to make a mistake.

For a full power hunting load I use 30 grains/IMR-3031 but you'll need a gas check boolit.

[Char-Gar]

YOu are good to go with what you have. FL size those cases and load Unique under those bullet and don't go over 1.5K fps.

Those 30-30 cases are strechy boogers and in anothe couple of reloads you will want to consider triming them.

[eljefe]

I would recommend one of these if you are going to trim with the Lee trimmer.

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=136199

It will make it less cumbersome to trim cases.

[jimkim]

I'm surprised no one posted this link. http://www.gmdr.com/lever/lowveldata.htm Another good thing to have is the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook. http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=796528

I like Red Dot or Green Dot for my low velocity(1000-1300fps)
loads. I use Unique or Blue Dot for my medium velocity(1300-1600fps) loads.

If you want a good deal on some PB boolits talk to GabbyM about his SAECO 630's. I load mine with either 6.5gr Red Dot or 7.0gr Green Dot. They shoot real good in my 336CS. He also has RCBS 30-180-FN's if you want something with a little more smackdown.