reduced loads in 45-120

[semtav]

The thread on Custer, using the reduced load 45-70 (45-55) got me to wondering.
Has anyone shot reduced loads in the 45-120, using the cardboard tube method?
I may have access to a 45-120 for a while and probably won't want to shoot everthing fullbore. Not interested in shooting smokeless in it either. I get enough smokeless shooting in other guns.

[Gussy]

I had one othem critters. Easiest load I found was around 100 gr 1 F and filled the space with 1/4" cork wads (2 of them!!), 530gr Postel bullet. Much less fouling, much less recoil, and it shot well with good use of the blow tube.
Gus

[EDK]

Check out Kenny Wasserberger's posts...he uses a stack of wads in some of his loads...and you know how well he does.

:cbpour::redneck::Fire:

[Bullshop]

I just drop the powder in and fill the rest of the case with packing popcorn then compress the corn with the boolit..
At one time long ago I did cut styrofoam wads to do the same thing.
They were cut from styro picnic plates.
The popcorn is fast and simple and works just as good.
BIC/BS

[missionary5155]

Good evening
I have done the same idea in 45-70 using cornmeal. First powder, then a thin wad(cereal Box) then cornmeal on top so seated boolit compresses the load about .10 inch. I think the cornmeal scoures out some of the previous fouling as it does not seem to build up much. 40 grains of 2F + cornmeal with a 300 grain makes a great bunny load.

[NickSS]

I have a friend who can not shoot a full house 45-120 load due to a bad shoulder. He loads 70 gr of FFG and fills the case with corn meal with a wad over the top. He compressed the entire load about .3" and seats his bullet. He gets decent accuracy with this load. I have also loaded 45-55 carbine loads buy the same method. They worked well, recoiled less and were quite accurate at 200 yards. It made for some interesting smell variations and left a crust of corn meal fouling around the muzzle crown stuck to my lube star.

[semtav]

I've heard corn meal can be abrasive and hard on the barrel over time, is that true?

[ironcowboy]

I highly doubt corn meal could hurt a metal barrel...

[montana_charlie]

Why not just use 'air' to fill up the empty space in a reduced load?

Pour in 65 grains of BP with a veggie wad on top and run it down to the bottom of the case...along with all the compression you think you need.
Then seat the bullet down on that wad, leaving the bullet's nose just about even with the mouth of the case.

All of the air that's taking up empty space is in front of the bullet...not under it.

You'd have a 45/70 load snuggled down inside a 45/120 case, but the case would fill the chamber and the bullet would simply have to travel an inch and three quarters before it cleared the brass.

Yeah...the bullet would have to be sized down to fit the smaller ID of that area inside the case, but it would 'bump' when it got out far enough to hit the throat.

CM

[Bullshop]

I remember reading an old handloader article about loading like that.
It was called a cylender length wildcat. They had used a 44 mag cylender in a 41 mag S&W revolver. They were using cylender length brass made from 30/40 I think and seating the 41 cal bullets down inside the case past flush with the mouth.
Seemed to work good as I recall and gave increased velocity over the 41 mag.
BIC/BS

[semtav]

Yeah...the bullet would have to be sized down to fit the smaller ID of that area inside the case, but it would 'bump' when it got out far enough to hit the throat.

CM

Very interesting idea, but since these cases are actually tapered, are you sure the bullet wouldn't be loose, not tight in that area causing gases to blow by part of the bullet ?

I've got some 120 brass coming, so I'll have to push a bullet in one and see.

[Lead pot]

I never could understand why someone would buy a caliber like a .45/3.25 and try to load it down to a .45-70 or a .45-70 to a .45 colt.
If the recoil is to much for you to handle buy a rifle chambered for a revolver cartridge.

[semtav]

You obviously didn't read my post very well Lead pot, but maybe its because I didn't want to blow half a can of black powder every time I pulled the trigger. Then again, maybe it'll be way too much fun blowing half a can of powder every shot , and that's the only way I"ll shoot it. but either way, it won't be because I'm afraid that you won't think I'm macho enough.

[Skipper]

Why not just go with 26-30 gns of TrailBoss?

[montana_charlie]

Very interesting idea, but since these cases are actually tapered, are you sure the bullet wouldn't be loose, not tight in that area causing gases to blow by part of the bullet ?

I've got some 120 brass coming, so I'll have to push a bullet in one and see.
Except for W-W brass (which is very thin in the wall) .45 straight cases do taper down on the inside.
The ID right down at the web is about .390".

Instead of pushing a bullet down into one to check for taper, use a set of drill bits.
The 29/64" (.453") is a slip-fit in a fireformed case, but it won't go quite to the bottom. Pick smaller bits and measure their depth to see how the walls taper.

A bullet seated deep enough to sit on top of a '.45/70 load' has to be small enough to fit snugly in the case, but not bulge it enough to make it difficult to chamber.

Just guessing, I'd say the bullet will need to be sized down to about .454".

CM

[semtav]

I always thought since the outside tapers out the closer you get to the base, the inside would too.

I ran a hole guage down my Starline 45-90 brass, and its snug for about 1/2 inch, then it widens out for about an inch then starts to taper in again.

[semtav]

45-120 brass arrived today. measured the inside of the case. is consistent for about 1" then widens out for about 1 3/4 inch then tapers back in the last 1/2 inch.

So I couldn't seat a bullet in too far without it being loose.

Now if my tanker load of black powder shows up before gun does, I'll be all set. :twisted:

[RMulhern]

:killingpc:groner::killingpc:killingpc

[semtav]

since the gun and powder showed up this evening, I thought I try a few loads before it got dark.

tried a target I nailed to the tree out back. (Can't upload pics so put them here )

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3200/2426842009_da06c225c9.jpg


Wifes not too happy :cry:


Brother was here, so I bet him I could hit that rabbit sitting under his car

(guess it shoots a little high)

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3562/3608687782_8445e182f4.jpg

He walked away muttering something.:veryconfu

It started getting dark, so I had to put it away for the night.

tomorrow I'm gonna quit messing with those squib loads and load er full tilt.[smilie=s:

[semtav]

Before I abandon this thread for good, I'd like to thank all that stuck their neck out to give me advice. Montana Charlie, Bullshop, NickSS etc.

After going back and reading all the 45-120 threads, I've figured out its sacrilege to talk about reduced loads or first time BPCR guns in 45-120.

I can understand the second one. You'd have to be nuts to buy a 45-120 for your first Black Powder gun, However, sometimes that's just how it winds up.

I acquired mine for only one reason.- The action.- While looking for a cheap action for my 45-75 project, and pricing the action, stocks, sights, etc, it was cheaper and quicker to just get a gun already put to gether and swap barrels. the 45-120 I found was just that, Cheap. and probably for a good reason. The former owner probably decided it was just too much gun or just too inaccurate for him or both.

so now that I've got it, be darned if I'm going to let a good opportunity to play with a 45-120 go, by pulling the barrel before I'm ready. Heck, I might even like it and start looking for another gun to rebarrel .

So again, thanks for all the advice, and to those contemplating the 45-120 for their first buffalo gun--Are you nuts????

And to those who already bought one and want advice from this site, I hope you aren't afraid to ask, cause despite everything, this site is still one of the best for this information.

[Bullshop]

Inaccuracy has never been an issue with the several 45/120's I have had.
Once I learned about packing popcorn powder selection is no longer a problem either.
Good accurate loads can be assembled with any powder one can lay hands on running the full spectrum of burn rates in smokless powder, black powder, and BP subs.
Guaranteed!
BIC/BS

[Lead pot]

Bullshop.

I wish I would have known you had a shop in Delta Junction when I spent a night in the park on my way up to Central.

See you next spring to pick up some supplies.

Kurt

[ZoroMan]

I have a 50-90 and I have a pet full power load and a pet reduced power load. I use cork wads to fill the space above the powder and under the boolit. You can use as little as 50 grains of Black Powder and with the fiber wads it keeps it all tight and packed. I also use a much lighter cast boolit. Instead of the usual 535 grainer boolit I use 350 grainer boolit.

There are many valid reasons for a reduced load in a big cartridge gun. Just because a person has a 120 does not mean he/she always has to load it up to full power.

BTW---That tree you shot and that car you destroyed with the 45/120 are truly tragic events and might have been averted if you just loaded it down.

It is still just a 45 caliber and just because the casing is a looooong 120 (aka 3.25 inches), you can keep the powder amount down as long as you have wads to take up all the "space" and yes if you shoot a lighter boolit you will not do so much tree or automobile damage..... ;)

[Gunlaker]

After going back and reading all the 45-120 threads, I've figured out its sacrilege to talk about reduced loads or first time BPCR guns in 45-120.

I can understand the second one. You'd have to be nuts to buy a 45-120 for your first Black Powder gun, However, sometimes that's just how it winds up.



Although my first "buffalo" gun was a .45-70, I only shot smokeless in it.

Until I bought my first gun for shooting black powder. That one is a C. Sharps 1874 in .50-140 :mrgreen:. A reasonably harsh introduction to the dark side. To be honest I do shoot my .45-70's (with BP) more now than I do that one. It is fun to pull that cannon out now and again though.

Nothing wrong with nuts :mrgreen:

Chris.

[T_Bone]

I've shot a good number of 45-120 rounds using 70gn Elephant 2f, thin paper wad, corn meal, card wad, 3/32" bees wax, 522gn with bees wax lube.

The load shot clean and better than my eyes could see at the time.

As of Thanksgiving 09, I no longer have my Pedersoli 74' 45-120 34", as someone decided they wanted it and 6 other long guns and 4 handguns out of my gun safe. :sad:

Merry Christmas All!

[semtav]

That really sucks T-bone. Hope they are recovered. I would hope we are enough of a close knit group that someone looking for a 45-120 will realize they are buying a stolen gun and report it.

Tried some Trail Boss in mine yesterday for the first shooting of it. didn't even kick as much as a regular 30-30, so I will start working it up until I get ambitious enough to load some black powder.

[oldreliable45120]

As my name states I shoot a 45-120, and I shoot it alot. Those big cases arn't really intended for reduced loads. Any time I tryed to reduce loads in my C.Sharps accuracy was'nt there. I did try Traill Boss and that works fine. If you want to shoot less powder have the rifle rechambered,or sell it and buy what you can shoot comfortably. My normal load is 118gr fg with a 600gr paper patched bullet

[semtav]

Been using trail boss to play with. gonna use full loads of black when I do load some.

I still get a kick out of the fact when you mention reduced loads, people think its cause you can't handle full loads.
In my business of hunting dangerous game in Eastern Montana, I have to use the biggest baddest gun around, but
when I'm just plinking at targets, I don't need the full load.

http://i957.photobucket.com/albums/ae53/S2D/Grasshopper-1.jpg

[sandhillscowboy]

I shoot a 45-120 with both smokeless and black, run a 500 gr lyman 457125 with a cookie and 41.3 gr of 5744, my cron shows 1460 fps and i get 2" groups at 100yds, even shot the same powder charge with Hornady RN jacket 500gr and the group even got tighter, nice little clover leaf.
another load I use is the lee mold #C457-500-FP gaschecked and use the same 1/16 cookie under the bullet 43.1 gr of 5744 or 110 2F black, I get the same good groups the recoil is no worst than shooting a 12ga 3" mag to me, but my rifle weights in at 18 lbs to.

[semtav]

Finally got around to loading my 45-120 with black powder.

110 gr Goex FFG and 565 gr bullet.

Really expected it to knock me on my butt, so I kinda flinched the first shot.

talk about a non event !!!! Very little recoil compared to a 3" mag 12 ga

Lotta smoke and boom tho. :D

[roverboy]

I know a guy who has a Quigley model from Cabela's. Its a .45-120 and as far as I know he's only shot it once. It belonged to his father. He said it kicked baaad. Semtav love the grashopper pic.