It slips, it hits the floor <clunk> 100 year old rifle stock... and it cracks

[Dutchman]

:groner:

I'm seriously upset over this. I had to take this 1895 Chilean Mauser apart to get the handguard off so I could fit a long eye relief scope mount into the rear sight base.

It was so tightly bedded I was wrestling with it. I had to put the front guard screw in loosely and tap it a few times with a leather hammer to get the barreled action to pop free. And when it did I lost it.
It danced right out of my hands and for a nano second time stood still. I knew, before it hit the concrete shop floor, what was going to happen. I had a vision, I heard voices. <THUNK>. I was afraid to look because I knew. Right through the lower buttplate screw.

[smilie=b:

http://images17.fotki.com/v372/photos/2/28344/1676633/DSCF0613q-vi.jpg

http://images53.fotki.com/v432/photos/2/28344/1676633/DSCF0618q-vi.jpg

http://images32.fotki.com/v1058/photos/2/28344/1676633/DSCF0633q-vi.jpg

http://images41.fotki.com/v9/photos/2/28344/1676633/DSCF0635q-vi.jpg

Don't know exactly how I'll fix it yet. It'll have to doweled.

[Jack Stanley]

Gorilla glue works well as does acra-glass without the glass added . I've used both an the wood hasn't let loose yet . Brass pins might make it look like an arsenal repair thought I'm not sure what that military might have used .

Jack

[opentop]

Get ahold of candyman over here at this site. He does some fine work!

http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/viewforum.php?f=83&sid=8123ea0976bcd07dc09896e35f5d6f89

[Frank46]

Yep Candyman at surplusrifle.com has resurected some really sad basket cases. Your stock is well worth fixing. Frank

[Dutchman]

Ok, I went over to the other forum and you're right. He looks like the right man for the job. I also have a Dutch Beaumont that needs a stock repair. I'll see what he says.

much thanks!

Dutch

[doubs43]

Dutch, I'd like to know more about your '95 Mauser. I'm sorry for your mishap and I hope you can get the stock properly repaired.

I have one made by DWM that I purchased from Springfield Sporters of Penn Run, PA more than 15 years ago. I picked it out from their on-site store.

The serial number is more than 500 but less than 600 and doesn't have a letter. The muzzle crown is different than on any other 1895 Mauser I've seen. The rifling is also different as I recall. It's been a long time since I pulled it out of my safe but I think there are some small differences between it and the other 1895's I've owned in the past. Because it doesn't have a letter in the serial number and only has three digits, it may be from DWM's first run but I've never tried to prove it one way or the other. As always, DWM's workmanship is first class in every way.

I'd like to compare it to yours if possible.

[Dutchman]

What would you like to compare?

I should probably do some more photos of the 1895 and the DWM 1893 South African 7mm.

What are the small differences?

Dutch

[doubs43]

What would you like to compare?

I should probably do some more photos of the 1895 and the DWM 1893 South African 7mm.

What are the small differences? Dutch

Over the next few days I'll pull the rifle from my safe.... it's buried pretty deeply and I have a match Saturday that I'm pressed for time getting ready for.

Update: I pulled the rifle out and here is what I think are differences:

Serial Number is 519 (No letter)

Inscription on the receiver is simply "DEUTSCHE WAFFEN-UN MUNITIONSFABRIKEN." in small font. Under that is "BERLIN."

The Chilean crest is stamped on the receiver as normal.

The stock cartouche is deep and the crest is enclosed in a circle while "1895" is in an elongated box under but touching the circle. It's as nice a cartouche as I've seen.

The muzzle crown is more rounded than the later rifles.

Rifling is four lands that appear to be narrower than in later rifles. The bore is excellent.

Numbers match except for the striker shroud and safety wing. Those two parts match each other. Even the cleaning rod is stamped "519".

The serial number and the 1895 cartouche lead me to believe that this rifle may be one of the very first run of the Chilean contract rifles to leave the factory.

I'll post pictures as soon as I'm able to take them.

I appreciate the opportunity to compare mine with yours.

[Dutchman]

I'm going to start a new thread: 93 - 95 Mauser for this subject.

Need you to check the shape of the bolt face. And is the bolt handle straight or bent?


Dutch

[BudRow]

That crack looks like an easy repair. I have three Chilean rifles. Two Lowe 95s and a DWM "C" series ZAR M- 93 with the correct bent M-93 bolt. Bolt # does not match rifle # however it is also a "C" series and I have no reason to think that it is not a Zar bolt. The rest of the rifle all matches including the cleaning rod. The rifle is in very good condition and I was tickled to death to have paid $90 for it in 2005 !!! Best wishes, Bud

[KCSO]

If you want to do it yourself get some acraglass and some analine dye. Mix the glass up and add dye till you have as close a match as you can get. De grease both pieces and allpy glue to both sides of the break. Then clamp tightly for 48 hours and then scrape the excess off with a sharp scraper. Then oil with a good grade of boiled linseed oil. The crack will disappear.

[scrapcan]

A good way to clamp if you have access to it is latex or rubber medical tubing. I had this exact type of crack form in a very similar fashion on a winchester Model 94 stock. Chipped the toe of stock and did not even mar the butt plate. It just makes you sick as you watch it head to the floor.

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

If you want the absolute best repair, do not use gorilla glue, do not use acraglass, etc. Instead, go to your local hobby lobby or hobby store and pick up some thin cyanoacrylate glue. Stop at the office supply store and pick up some of the larger sized rubber bands.

Here's how you use the above:

1. Place rubber bands around the area to be repaired.

2. Bleed the glue into the crack, don't pull the crack open. The glue is thin and will flow right into the area. Do not get glue on the rubber bands, it's a mess to clean up.

3. Blow warm breath into the crack to "set" the exposed glue surface and stop it from running.

Steps 1 and 2 can be reversed, depending on the part you're repairing.

4. Let dry for 24 hours, then clean up the excess glue with fine sandpaper. Apply an oil finish over any wood you may have sanded. The glue dries dark and the crack will appear as a normal line in the wood, especially if it's a walnut.

For more information on these types of glues, go to ParallaxBill's Curio & Relic and Military Surplus Firearms Forums and go into the stock cleaning section, look for postings by Cabinetman.

I've tried all of the above repairs and milsurp stocks I've repaired professionally over the past 20 years and the cyanoacrylate glue is by far the best, both in results and durability.

Regards,

Dave

[scrapcan]

Dave,

Thanks for the information.

[waksupi]

Instead, go to your local hobby lobby or hobby store and pick up some thin cyanoacrylate glue.

Dave


cyanoacrylate glue = Super Glue

[scrapcan]

The cyanoacrylate makes a nice finish for som applications. I have seen mowrk done on razor scales where the final finish is the super glue variety.

[BD]

The best permanent repair for wood split down the grain is either West System, or Mas penetrating epoxies. Any good wooden boat shop/supply would have one or the other. You pull the pieces completely apart, mix the epoxy and apply it to both surfaces and then clamp it back together. The repair is far stronger than the original wood.

The world is afloat with wooden sailing vessels "glued" together like this with no other fasteners. I have kayak paddles laminated with West System that have been through the wringer, and in the weather, for decades with never a glue line failure. I've turned a few into matchsticks, (failure to accurately judge my own abilities :), and the wood fails, not the epoxy glue line.

The glue line is as fine as your ability to clamp it tightly. Clamping a split that has never been open to dirt it will be invisible.
BD

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

The best permanent repair for wood split down the grain is either West System, or Mas penetrating epoxies. Any good wooden boat shop/supply would have one or the other. You pull the pieces completely apart, mix the epoxy and apply it to both surfaces and then clamp it back together. The repair is far stronger than the original wood.

Pulling the pieces together is not a desirable thing to do with gunstocks, particularly extremely old piece of wood that tend to be dry, oil soaked, etc and very easily splinter on you.

The world is afloat with wooden sailing vessels "glued" together like this with no other fasteners. I have kayak paddles laminated with West System that have been through the wringer, and in the weather, for decades with never a glue line failure. I've turned a few into matchsticks, (failure to accurately judge my own abilities :), and the wood fails, not the epoxy glue line.

Cyanoacrylate glue get the same strong bond (stronger than the wood itself) and you don't have to risk splintering your stock. Additionally, it isn't dependent on the woodworking skill of the individual involved and does not disturb the original finish of the firearm like pulling the stock apart will do. Additionally, expoxies are much tougher to get a fine line and they are harder to match the wood's original color.

The glue line is as fine as your ability to clamp it tightly. Clamping a split that has never been open to dirt it will be invisible.

And therein lies the rub, you've got to do more damage and risk more injury to what is generally a very old stock to repair it.


I wouldn't suggest pulling apart an old antique stock. Results are generally not nearly as good and the amount of work is significantly more for no gain in strength. Been there, done that - ain't worth it. Sounds like a good repair for a canoe though.

Regards,

Dave

[BD]

If it's a decision between an "esthetic" repair, and a "structural" repair, then Dave's points are valid. You're not going to get an invisible glue line using epoxy clamped with rubber bands. You would need to protect the surface adjacent to the crack and use some well padded real clamps.


If it's a structural repair, the penetrating epoxy is a far superior choice. The bond strength of the cyanoacrylate family of adhesives is very dependent on the porosity and moisture content of the material being bonded at the surface of the bond as the cyanoacrylate has very little shear strength itself.

I don't know how strong a rifle stock needs to be down the length of the grain, but I would have very little confidence in the strength of any cyanoacrylate repair made without assurance that the entire surface of the split received adhesive, 20% moisture content, and sufficient clamping pressure to insure 100% contact. I've seen many failures of "super glue" and gorilla glue used outdoors on things like handrails and posts that get a little use over time.
BD

[Dutchman]

I don't know how strong a rifle stock needs to be down the length of the grain,


This is getting more interesting as we go!

The crack runs straight through the center of the lower buttplate screw. I was wondering about the superglue technique myself in regards to how the glued joint would sustain the stress of the screw afterwards.

If I was to do this myself I'd use two 1/2" dowels inserted from the toe upwards as the buttplate screw would subsequently anchor in this dowel for strength. There's almost no other way to do it since that buttplate screw is in the equasion.

I'm learning a lot here! Thanks for that.

Dutch

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

You have my condolences...

Rich

[Philngruvy]

IMHO the CA repair should work well. May I suggest that you remove the butt plate and fill the screw hole, which goes into the crack, with CA also. It will allow for deeper penetration of the CA into the center of the crack insuring a much tighter bond.
Ron

[Char-Gar]

Humm I am getting ready to repair a crack in a walnut stock. It runs with the grain and is beside the receiver ring about an inch and a half long. You can pull the wood apart slightly, but a piece has not chipped off. I was planning to go with warm Acra-glas.. but now I am confused.

Warm Acra-gras is about like water and the area is easy to clamp for an invisable fix.

[Dutchman]

You wouldn't think such a crack would provoke such different techniques to repair it.

Since its not (yet) split off the stock I could try the cyanoacrylate if I can carefully open up the crack and hold it with toothpicks to allow the glue to flow in. But I should have Plan B ready in case it splits off in the process.

This stock is not oil soaked. Dry but not oil soaked.

What is this "penetrating epoxy"?

Dutch

[junkbug]

Dutchman,
Using that method, with toothpicks and all, you can also use some canned air (for cleaning computers) to help get the CA fluid as deep into the crack as possible.

Good luck.

Sean

[BD]

There are two main companies that manufacture a two part epoxy resin used in wood resin composites. Mas and West System. Of the two the West System is a little thinner. The most common use for this stuff is wooden boat building and the local boat yard or marine supply store may be the easiest source. It is expensive, and not available in small amounts, (I'm thinking quart kits may be the smallest). If you wander in to a wooden boat shop and explain your problem I'd bet they'd give you a little. It is designed to penetrate into the wood fibers carrying the bond past the surface of the two pieces. I have used it for various things on a number of projects over the years, including boats, with good success. I've also used it extensively to anchor threaded rod and repair splits in large Doug Fir and hardwood timbers as there's been enough engineering done with it that it's a fairly easy idea to sell to a project engineer.

The main advantage is that the repair is stronger than the wood substrate, and strengthens the wood immediately adjacent to the repair.

The downside may be that if you're in the middle of Kansas, the nearest boat shop could be a ways off.

BD

[jgaynor]

if you still feel you need pins or dowels could you not remove the butt plate and insert them at an angle?

Any decent wood working glue (e.g. Elmers yellow) should give you all the strength you need and will be much more forgiving than some of the other products mentioned.

Regards,

Jim

[pilot]

I found West Systems G/flex 650 epoxy in a repair kit consisting of two four oz. bottles at a marina last summer. I got it for repairs to my kayaks in case I need it. I haven't used it yet, so no report on how well it works.

[Wayne Smith]

Dutch, you don't need dowels to strengthen the joint. Any woodworking glue, epoxy or white/yellow glue will provide a bond stronger than the surrounding wood. This is a clean break with no dirt or problems involved. The problem is getting the glue into the break prior to it's setting. You need something with a relatively long open time prior to setting. Yellow glue can be thinned with water to increase flow. This also increases it's open time.

Super glues require water to set up. That is an old stock and very dry. It's interior is probably less than 10% water and that isn't enough for these glues to set up. Unless you can moisten the wood you will not get as strong a bond as with another glue.

You don't want to glue the screw to the stock wood. I would glue it up, clamp, and then remove the screw until it is completely dry. Which glue to use is up to you but remember that you need penetration into the center of the stock for the glue to work.

[Dutchman]

I'm going to put this rifle aside without fixing it for the time being. I don't want to do a bad job or a wrong job on it. It would've been easier had the toe come off completely.

Many thanks for the great ideas and thoughts on this problem.

Dutch

[waksupi]

If you need to get glue deep into a crack, use a high pressure hose. Spread on some glue, with the crack spread as far as possible. Blow in the glue, repeat a couple times. You usually get pretty good coverage this way.