Rocksalt thread removed?

[mtnman31]

Was the thread "Rocksalt" removed? I was following the thread opened by Peter Napp on "rocksalt that had morphed into using dogs for running deer". I can no longer find it, was it removed for some reason?

[peter nap]

Was the thread "Rocksalt" removed? I was following the thread opened by Peter Napp on "rocksalt that had morphed into using dogs for running deer". I can no longer find it, was it removed for some reason?

Probably was. It had gotten way off of casting for shotguns and I was on my favorite rant. I expect the ADM got some complaints from dog hunters.

Can't really blame the board.

[mtnman31]

Fiddlesticks, there's not much reason to remove the thread unless it had something obscene in it. They could always lock it or omit a specific reply if it was offensive. When I last looked at it, it may have drifted off topic but was still appropriate for the website. Just my humble opinion...

[RP]

run a search on rocksalt and see what pops up may have been moved

[peter nap]

Fiddlesticks, there's not much reason to remove the thread unless it had something obscene in it. They could always lock it or omit a specific reply if it was offensive. When I last looked at it, it may have drifted off topic but was still appropriate for the website. Just my humble opinion...

It was pretty borderline for this site. That's one button that doesn't take much pushing for me and I tend to get carried away.

[Jim]

I ran a search. Nothing. Truth be told, the thread did kinda' run off the road into the ditch.

[EMC45]

What happened to the mini bolo thread? Coy hunter deleted it and it was just getting good! I think he did an awesome job.

[tommygirlMT]

Can you delete a thread you started without help from a mod? I don't think you can. Might be able to deleat your posts in the thread but not the whole thing, conceivably other peoples post would still be there.

As far as that bolo-thread. They might have killed it because of one of my posts on it. I did sorta use the BSG (Battle Star Gelactica) equivalent of the F word in one of my posts on it. Technically not swearing, that's why they invented those words so they could swear on TV way back in the old, old days when it wasn't allowed and get away with it without being shut down by the FCC. But I doubt they care about such technicalities on this forum.

[357maximum]

I personally moved the "rocksalt thread" it to where it cannot be read. It went nowhere good real fast, and I did not want some search bot finding and transmitting some of the stuff posted on that thread.

Pretend you have an agenda and take some of the posts out of context.

[.45Cole]

I personally moved the "rocksalt thread" it to where it cannot be read. It went nowhere good real fast, and I did not want some search bot finding and transmitting some of the stuff posted on that thread.

Pretend you have an agenda and take some of the posts out of context.

Honestly thanks 357maximum. I have never read it (rocksalt) but I too worry about what can be used against us that was said here. Good moderatin'

[preparehandbook]

+1 for moderating.

It's sad that folks with agendas lurk on forums, but it happens.

[9.3X62AL]

Pretend you have an agenda and take some of the posts out of context.

Roger THAT. A good thing to keep in mind when posting online just about anywhere.

[preparehandbook]

A few months back a forum I was on had a rash of PM's that were asking posters for illegal select fire conversion info, they were strangely worded so I had my IT guy at work find where they originated. We found that it was not a private party, I guess the organisation that sent them got the mistaken idea that the forum posters were the sort of folks that would do this sort of stuff. Of course they got sent a slew of links to BATFE and warnings from the mods and I guess I have little sympathy for anyone who would atually supply info into illegal stuff, but it does show that there are people out there literally "asking for trouble"

[JIMinPHX]

Would anyone like to start a more civil thread, discussing rock salt loads? I for one would find that interesting & have no ill intentions or desires to misuse it, harm dogs or create mayhem.

[preparehandbook]

I'd be interested in a rocksalt thread

[JIMinPHX]

OK,
so then,
How do you load rocksalt? Do you just dump it in the shell in place of the shot charge until the wad is full?

How well does it pattern? How well does it penetrate at 20 yards? Do you need to clean the gun in some special way after firing it?

[NVScouter]

OK,
so then,
How do you load rocksalt? Do you just dump it in the shell in place of the shot charge until the wad is full?

How well does it pattern? How well does it penetrate at 20 yards? Do you need to clean the gun in some special way after firing it?

Basicly yeah but 1/4 powder charge and I hand crimp with a touch of wood glue. I launched some full power and it powdered before leaving the barrel.

no extra cleaning since the wad is the same as lead. No real penitration past 10 yards but I wouldnt want to be hit by it again.

[scrapcan]

at 75 to 100 yards it will pattern well enough to get 4 kids as they scramble under-over-through a 4 strand barb wire fence. I was the middle kid going through on right and it it mid thigh to upper left shoulder.

To the benefit of the board we knew better than to trespass on the old guys pasture. I think I was 10 or 11 years old at the time. We had an old harware store in town that sold boxed paper shells loaded with rock salt as I remember seeign them on the shelf after the event fore mentioned.

[JIMinPHX]

at 75 to 100 yards it will pattern well enough to get 4 kids as they scramble under-over-through a 4 strand barb wire fence. I was the middle kid going through on right and it it mid thigh to upper left shoulder.


How bad did that hurt? Was there any permanent damage to you (aside from your pride)?

[shotman]

it dont keep well in a shell, paper dont last about a month, plastic if sealed will keep about 6mo. Rice does better this is for the birds in the barn salt will rust hull and barell if not cleaned also it has sand grit that will scratch if you dont use a steel shot cup. .
I used salt in my 30-06 because I shot deer so far away that they would spoil
but that was when my eyes were better

[turbo1889]

I have fiddled with loading rock-salt off and on over the years. Long story short the best way to do it is to use a steel shot wad (to protect the barrel from the salt and to get enough salt inside the shell to make it worth while) and don't use pure rock salt but rather about a 2/1 mix of rock-salt and COW (Cream Of Wheat) as a buffering material to keep the salt from turning to dust under the shock of firing. Loads are usually 10 to 15 grains of BullsEye or a similar light load of very, very fast burning powder ignited by a hot magnum primer to ensure a load with a stable burn and consistent POI.

As for its effectiveness: Well there was once a certain young man of early high school age that had a tomboy friend who hung out with the guys and was thought of as one of the guys suggest that he meet her out behind her house under the big old tree late at night after her folks had gone to bed. The young man wasn't 100% sure what she had in mind but he was darn well going to show up and find out and was hoping to learn a few new things in life. The mother of said girl figured out what was up and was waiting when she snuck out of the house thinking her parents were asleep and when the boy showed up said mother blasted them both with rock salt just when things started to happen and the clothes were starting to come off. That young man would assure you that the stuff is affective and delivers the message extremely well (that hollering in the background while he was running about it being hot lead next time might have helped as well). The identity of said young man of many years ago will remain anonymous. [smilie=1:

[preparehandbook]

This guy some simple experiments, but no real load development:

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot33.htm

After following this forum I realised that a better load could be developed. I don't really have a use for rock salt loads, just curious.

I did not know that loaded rounds were once sold, makes sense tho...

[preparehandbook]

It figures someone had to take it a step further:

http://www.seasonshot.com/Home.cfm

[missionary5155]

Greetings
My first encounter with rock salt was at a water melon patch about 10 pm as we were eating the hearts out of a few. I remember the farmer yelling something like...You boys listen up.. my double is loaded with rocksalt and it will burn all the way home. Ka-booom ! We did not get hit nor burn all the way home... just moved on to othere large fields that were about.

[scrapcan]

Well as stated there were four of us on the wrong sid eof the fence. Teh salt went through a pair jeans and through my t-shirt. It does burn and some had to be picked out when we got home. Mom and Grandma used peroxide and some tincture of iodine on where the skin was broke. It healed up well after 25 years I have no scars left other than the memory of the sound of the shotgun going off in my direction. That will not be forgotten.

The ones I saw in the hardware store were red crimped paper hulls in factory boxes. The paper was very waxy and had a small wax seal with imprint on the crimp. red and yellow box is what comes to mind. When I think of the episode the 10 or so seconds of the event and then the wonderment as I opened the box at the harware store all flood back as if it were yesterday.

Anyway that is all a digression of the original intent of the post so I will quite sending the thread in the wrong direction.

[preparehandbook]

Here's a company selling it:
http://alamoammo.com/cart/shotgun-ammunition/12-gauge/12-gauge-rock-salt-round-5ct

I might try some once I find out if it's legal here (it's california, so who knows)

Though I like the idea of buffered, shot and taylored loads.

[madsenshooter]

The subject brings back an old memory of 6 year old boy walking down a long country lane to find his dog that had been missing some time. The poor girl, named Candy, had been shot with rock salt at close distance, and her hind quarter was a mess. Dad ended her suffering while I was at school. The stuff burns and festers once inside flesh. I have no other comments on the subject and as far as I'm concerned it can disappear again.

[preparehandbook]

The subject brings back an old memory of 6 year old boy walking down a long country lane to find his dog that had been missing some time. The poor girl, named Candy, had been shot with rock salt at close distance, and her hind quarter was a mess. Dad ended her suffering while I was at school. The stuff burns and festers once inside flesh. I have no other comments on the subject and as far as I'm concerned it can disappear again.

???
Why jump on a thread just to say you won't comment? Maybe your purpose was to relay this horrific misuse of a gun, which I agree is despicable.

I hate to be "that guy" who points this out, but I'm a combat vet and can attest that getting shot sucks pretty bad regardless of what with, yeah salt may be worse, and I'm sure it burns and really doubt it festers, but I hope not to find out nor cause anyone else to. Rock salt is obviously no longer considered a viable less than lethal load, I have less than 0 interest in shooting anything living with rock salt.

I am interested in both the historical aspect of this load that seems to perform pretty well for something "experts" say can't work. I'm also interested in how to get a very light load to usable velocity especially "navy bean loads". I use rubber buck on bears and would like to better understand these very light loads.

Alamo ammo's ad states: "Due to the light weight of the shot material, it should be used at distances of not less than 20 yards or more than 50 yards from your target" Is this ad-enthusiam? or are they really getting effective 50 yard range?

Is it possible that some of the older loads used a different salt? a mineral or metallic salt? maybe denser or larger crystals? Those ones in the alamo load don't look like the ice cream salt I buy (for ice cream).

[JIMinPHX]

The subject brings back an old memory of 6 year old boy walking down a long country lane to find his dog that had been missing some time. The poor girl, named Candy, had been shot with rock salt at close distance, and her hind quarter was a mess. Dad ended her suffering while I was at school. The stuff burns and festers once inside flesh. I have no other comments on the subject and as far as I'm concerned it can disappear again.

My cousin's St. Bernard came home after being gone for about 2-weeks with a festering .22 slug in it, about 25 years ago. A neighbor's cat came home after about 3-weeks with a leg missing, about 30 years ago. There are some people in this world who should not own guns. Apparently, your dog ran into one of them. In my opinion, the problem here was the operator of the equipment & not the choice of equipment in use. That's just my opinion though.

I'm sorry to hear that the poor dog got the raw end of that deal. The person responsible for that occurrence deserves some jail time. I'm also sorry that a 6-year old had to experience that at such a tender age. It shouldn't have happened.

[JIMinPHX]

???
I use rubber buck on bears

I have never in my life come across any single person anywhere in the entire world that has said that before. I would be scarred half to death to open fire on a bear with rubber buck.

How did that work out for you? What kind of response did you get?

[JIMinPHX]

This guy some simple experiments, but no real load development:

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot33.htm

After following this forum I realised that a better load could be developed. I don't really have a use for rock salt loads, just curious.

I did not know that loaded rounds were once sold, makes sense tho...

When I was a kid, growing up back east, the rock salt that we had was coarse, jagged, variable in size & had black streaks going through it. We used it for salting roads in the winter. I don't think that it was food grade.

The ice cream salt that the "box o truth" guy used might not be a fair comparison. I've seen some other things that guy has posted in the past. I respect the fact that he actually goes out & tries things for himself before he comments on them, but I sometimes don't think that his tests are fully valid. I recall him making some assumptions in the past that I thought were ...at the very least, a little presumptive. He's kind of like the myth buster guys. I think that they take an honest stab at sorting things out, but they do miss some important details sometimes. The biggest differences between him & them are probably the number of people involved in the problem solving team & the budget that is available to work with. He seems to have a little less to work with on both counts.

One of the biggest strengths that this board has is the vast number of people that come together to offer constructive information on a given subject. I trust the conclusions that are drawn here, far more than I trust his.

[shunka]

I have never in my life come across any single person anywhere in the entire world that has said that before. I would be scarred half to death to open fire on a bear with rubber buck.

How did that work out for you? What kind of response did you get?

Greetings Jim -

On the front range of the rockies we have an ongoing problem with young black bears getting into the garbage, etc

A number of States have animal control teams ( Colorado is one) that dispatch teams that perform a sort of "bear education program". The drill seems to be:
1) release "bear dogs" that are trained to chase the bears off without getting killed
2) flash VERY BRIGHT spotlights on the bear
3) hollar "no no bad bear" through a very loud megaphone
4) hit the bear in the rump with a load of rubber buck.

The team leaves the rural homeowner with a couple boxes of rubber buck and instructions: If the bear returns flash the lights, hollar nono bad bear and hit him in the butt with another load of rubber buckshot.

While it sounds completely demented, this method has a good track record of success over the last 7 years. The young bear now associates people and houses with an unpleasant experience, and they have had to put down far fewer bears than in the past.

It also helps to increase the number of bear llicenses.

yhs
shunka

[JIMinPHX]

You're not the only ones that have bears getting into the garbage cans. I have friends in several parts of the country that experience that more often than they would like to. I'm just a bit surprised that rubber buck would be effective on a bear. I would have expected it to make him more aggressive. I guess that this is an example of me learning something new every day.

[jh45gun]

Greetings Jim -

On the front range of the rockies we have an ongoing problem with young black bears getting into the garbage, etc

A number of States have animal control teams ( Colorado is one) that dispatch teams that perform a sort of "bear education program". The drill seems to be:
1) release "bear dogs" that are trained to chase the bears off without getting killed
2) flash VERY BRIGHT spotlights on the bear
3)hollar "no no bad bear" through a very loud megaphone
4) hit the bear in the rump with a load of rubber buck.

The team leaves the rural homeowner with a couple boxes of rubber buck and instructions: If the bear returns flash the lights, hollar nono bad bear and hit him in the butt with another load of rubber buckshot.

While it sounds completely demented, this method has a good track record of success over the last 7 years. The young bear now associates people and houses with an unpleasant experience, and they have had to put down far fewer bears than in the past.

It also helps to increase the number of bear llicenses.

yhs
shunka



Your kidding right? LOL

[preparehandbook]

I learned about rubber buck in it's applications for humans, I've had good luck there, so figured it would work on bear.

You have to make sure you have some range, so as not to penetrate, 50 or so feet is good for bear, more like 70 feet is better for shooting people. I try to tag them in the hindquarters as this encourages them to keep moving away and avoids accidentally hitting their eyes, ears, nose which could cause real damage and maybe a rage response.

They yelp and usually poop a little, then run like heck. We've never had the same bear twice. Neighbors a mile away use bear spray and noisemakers, their same bears are always come back.

rubber bucked a mountain lion too at about 200 feet, not effective but the noise worked, it left, but came back 3 days later, it was very ill and going for the house cats and kids. Had to put it down.

I'm a nice guy, everybody gets a chance at nonlethal first. I keep 00 next in line in case the rubber buck doesn't work.

I've heard of the spotlight and megaphone thing and consider it to be bulls**t they tell yuppies to keep them from shooting at stuff, I put it right up there with loading a shotshell full of a mixture of lube-grooves and turn-signal-fluid as far as effectiveness.

the local abatement guy is a total jerk who sells illegal doe hunts to his buddies. He's also well known for killing pets and livestock, so nobody lets him on their roads, let alone their property. Our landowner has driven him off at gunpoint twice for poaching.

[JIMinPHX]

I've heard of the spotlight and megaphone thing and consider it to be bulls**t they tell yuppies to keep them from shooting at stuff,

I thought that yuppies used cell phones for self defense. :mrgreen:

[jh45gun]

I learned about rubber buck in it's applications for humans, I've had good luck there, so figured it would work on bear.

You have to make sure you have some range, so as not to penetrate, 50 or so feet is good for bear, more like 70 feet is better for shooting people. I try to tag them in the hindquarters as this encourages them to keep moving away and avoids accidentally hitting their eyes, ears, nose which could cause real damage and maybe a rage response.

They yelp and usually poop a little, then run like heck. We've never had the same bear twice. Neighbors a mile away use bear spray and noisemakers, their same bears are always come back.

rubber bucked a mountain lion too at about 200 feet, not effective but the noise worked, it left, but came back 3 days later, it was very ill and going for the house cats and kids. Had to put it down.

I'm a nice guy, everybody gets a chance at nonlethal first. I keep 00 next in line in case the rubber buck doesn't work.

I've heard of the spotlight and megaphone thing and consider it to be bulls**t they tell yuppies to keep them from shooting at stuff, I put it right up there with loading a shotshell full of a mixture of lube-grooves and turn-signal-fluid as far as effectiveness.

the local abatement guy is a total jerk who sells illegal doe hunts to his buddies. He's also well known for killing pets and livestock, so nobody lets him on their roads, let alone their property. Our landowner has driven him off at gunpoint twice for poaching.

OK I thought you were hollering bad bear LOL

[preparehandbook]

Actually, I do yell at the same time.

usually "git" or "yah"

I want the bear to have a negative association with human voices, as well as our food, smell, etc. I do this because I like the bears, a fed bear is a dead bear is very true. Where I live they kill them for the heck of it.

Don't get me wrong, I like eating bear. But pest control and hunting aren't necessarily the same thing.

[JIMinPHX]

Back to rock salt...

What type/grade of rock salt is usually used & where do you buy it? The road salt that I have seen in the past was sold by the ton at the local gravel yard. That's probably not the best option for someone that just wants to load a box or two of shells.

[NVScouter]

Back to rock salt...

What type/grade of rock salt is usually used & where do you buy it? The road salt that I have seen in the past was sold by the ton at the local gravel yard. That's probably not the best option for someone that just wants to load a box or two of shells.

Kosher salt is too fine. I still have a 75# of road salt thats 3-4X the ganuals. However the rocksalt you can get for pit roasting seems about the size.

As for impact I know that at 15y it will tear a T-shirt and give you road rash but no real penitration. I kinda figure thats the point.

I was a LEO for 8 years and honestly rubber slugs and bean bags are more effective.

[JIMinPHX]

I was a LEO for 8 years and honestly rubber slugs and bean bags are more effective.

That's probably true. The rubber rounds are probably easier on your gun too, as far as corrosion goes. I'm just curious about rock salt from a historical & functional point of view. I don't have any real use for it.

[akmac]

I have never in my life come across any single person anywhere in the entire world that has said that before. I would be scarred half to death to open fire on a bear with rubber buck.

How did that work out for you? What kind of response did you get?

I do this all the time during summer months with brown bears. We usually work in pairs, one guy has a 12ga loaded with slugs only, he of course is the safety/overwatch guy and his job is to shoot straight and fast if the situation goes to ****. The other guy uses a 12ga loaded with slugs topped off by a rubber buckshot round or rubber slug. We do a lot of yelling then whack them on the rear leg with the rubber load. They usually run off with no problems. Sometimes a big old boar will stop and look back, thats when the pucker factor goes up because you know the bear is thinking he is the one in charge!

[dogbert41]

You guys probably heard this Bear Advisory before?

The Forest Service has issued a BEAR WARNING in the national forests for this summer. They're urging everyone to protect themselves by wearing bells and carrying pepper spray.

Campers should be alert for signs of fresh bear activity, and they should be able to tell the difference between Black Bear dung and Grizzy Bear dung.

Black Bear dung is rather small and round. Sometimes you can see fruit seeds and/or squirrel fur in it.

Grizzly Bear dung has bells in it, and smells like pepper spray!:groner:

[turbo1889]

Since study of multiple species of bears all over the planet and their social life have repeatable shown that mother bears practice corporal punishment (spanking, or in a bears case a good swift wallop to a misbehaving baby bears rear from a mother bears front paw) as a matter of fact (Coincidently, making them better mothers then most modern human mothers). I do find it believable that a load of rubber buck or rubber slugs appropriately and precisely applied to a bears butt end would be affective in many cases.

However, I will state that the effectiveness of such tactics is limited. We had a recent incident up here where I live where a bear attacked and mauled people at three different camping locations in the same general area in rapid suggestion within the same night. After the bear was put down it was discovered that she was a mother bear with cubs and she was in extreme distress because her cubs were dying of starvation. :shock:

Ain’t nothing rubber going to stop no mother bear with cubs that are starving to death and your the next meal for her cubs. Hot lead and lots of it applied precisely and repeatably is the only thing affective in a situation like that.

[preparehandbook]

Starving cubs :(

I see it just like shooting people with less-tan-lethal, when given the chance to do so safely I have used the softer option first. I have never had a person I pepper sprayed, tased etc that they would have rathered I shot them dead. Unfortunately sometimes it's just not a real option.