Are there any cons to bevel base bullets?

[Changeling]

In getting a bullet for the 45 LC is there any down side to getting a bevel base design. I like the idea of protecting the base of the bullet as much as possible even though one flairs the case before seating the bullet. However I notice a lot of you guys just use flat base so I thought I better ask.

[StarMetal]

In getting a bullet for the 45 LC is there any down side to getting a bevel base design. I like the idea of protecting the base of the bullet as much as possible even though one flairs the case before seating the bullet. However I notice a lot of you guys just use flat base so I thought I better ask.

Yeah, there's a con...it opens a can of worms on this forum between those who like them and those that don't. The stories that will unfold are harder to lube in the Lyman/RCBS type luber/sizers because lube is left around the bevel, they lead your barrel, and the one I love best they aren't as accurate as flat base. Don't believe all of it. If you like them, use them. Make your own conclusions.

Joe

[yondering]

Like Starmetal said, best to just try both ways yourself because you'll get so many different opinions here.
Personally I don't care much either way. I don't believe the bit about plain base always being more accurate. Yes, the bevel base can cause troubles in a lubersizer, but this is easily cured by using one of the boolits to hole-punch a piece of shotgun wad down into the sizer die. The edges of the wad material will protect the bevel base from lube, and you can adjust the die so the wad doesn't come out with each boolit.

[oldhickory]

I use the Lyman 200gr. swc bb boolit in my .45 Colt New Service with very good acuracy, next to no leading, and no adverse problems. Works good in my .45 auto too, (just like it was designed for).

[shooting on a shoestring]

Case in point. I have two wadcutters for .357/.38 they are the bevel base 358091 and the flat base 358089 (or is it 358087?). They both go through my Lyman 45 (the old model) lubrisizer, the bevel base doesn't get any lube in the bevel. They both shoot the same, that is I can't shoot well enough to discern any difference.

The bevel base loads just a tad easier, but not enough difference that I care. Neither has a propensity for leaving Pb in a barrel or forcing cone.

As far as I can tell, no difference other than looks, and the bevel isn't seen after its loaded.

I also push my wadcutters hard in .357. I don't ascribe to the theory they go to pot after 50 yards.

I do have several .45 Colt boolits, all happen to be flat base, but not by design, just happen stance.

[crgaston]

One theory is that the flat base seals the bore better, while a bevel base prevents obturation and allows gas to slip by, causing leading.

Another theory is that FB bullets can be more uniform in the base area after sizing than BB ones.

I use BB in autos with no problems, but prefer FB for revolvers. Seems to me that if the bullet is over bore size, the BB shouldn't matter with regard to gas leakage, but a lot of folks who know more than I do think differently.

Changeling, one of the neat things about the .45 Colt is that there about a bazillion variables to play with. I reloaded for years for the 9mm, .45ACP and .38SPL and thought it was a pretty simple process. I have learned more and done way more experimentation (and had lots more fun) since starting to load for the .45 Colt (it's the reason I started casting, too).

If no one has reccommended the RCBS 270SAA mould to you yet, GET ONE. Drops WW at 280 gr or so, improved Keith-type, shoots great over 18.0 Gr. 2400 in my guns. Should be pushing 1100 fps from your Ruger.

If you don't have them already, Handloader magazine issues # 217 June '02, 246 Apr '07, and 263 Dec "09 all have excellent articles regarding the .45 Colt. #246 also has an article regarding cast bullets for revolvers that should help you in your quest.

[9.3X62AL]

I have both kinds of bullet base designs scattered throughout my eclectic collection of moulds. I can't really say that one is superior in accuracy to the other. Kind of a non-issue for me.

[Nora]

One theory is that the flat base seals the bore better, while a bevel base prevents obturation and allows gas to slip by, causing leading.

What I don't care for along this line of thinking, is that if the boolit fit properly in the first place it wouldn't be causing any leading with either style. If it were the correct diameter it would have a good seal, and wouldn't allow any blow by gasses to get ahead of the boolit. Leading problem solved.

IMHO obtrusion also only happens when the boolit, once again, doesn't fit properly.

Wikipedia:
Obturate means to block or obstruct[1]. With reference to firearms and airguns, obturation refers to the process of a bullet or pellet, made of soft material and often with a concave base, flaring under the pressure of firing to seal the bore and engage the barrel's rifling. The mechanism by which an undersized soft metal projectile enlarges to fill the barrel is, for hollow-base bullets, due to expansion from gas pressure within the base cavity and, for solid-base bullets, upsetting - the combined shortening and thickening that occurs when a malleable metal object is struck forcibly at one end.

Proper fit, no need, no leading, no problem. Pick a style and shoot it. :Fire:

Nora

[crgaston]

Nora, I agree with you, hence my use of the word, "theory".
Seems to me that if the bullet is over bore size, the BB shouldn't matter with regard to gas leakage, but a lot of folks who know more than I do think differently.

Bottom line is try a bunch of different loads and find out what shoots good for you.

[Four Fingers of Death]

Bevel base boolits generally fall out of the mould easier, thats why the commercial casters love them. They are ok unless you want to push the envelope from what I can gather. I have never had any trouble with them, but them again, I ain't the type to push the envelope.

[Changeling]

Yeah, there's a con...it opens a can of worms on this forum between those who like them and those that don't. The stories that will unfold are harder to lube in the Lyman/RCBS type luber/sizers because lube is left around the bevel, they lead your barrel, and the one I love best they aren't as accurate as flat base. Don't believe all of it. If you like them, use them. Make your own conclusions.

Joe

That pretty well sums up what everyone else said. I just have to give this some thought.
If everyone wasn't being totally screwed by the cost of gas checks it would hardly be an issue. However that is no longer the case.

My neighbor is a big time hunter and has connections every where so I asked him today if he had a source for H gas checks. He's checking, but I have my doubts anything will turn up. He is strictly high power rifle!!!!! Not that I'm knocking him, I used to be, and still do have my moments and some awesome rifles. It's just that for some reason, revolvers are more to my liking.

Thanks to everyone, I got a world class lesson from this post.

[Dframe]

This debate will rage on long after we're all gone. I've never seen any concrete evidence they are any more inaccurate or any propensity to lead more than plain based bullets. If I can get a good deal on them I jump on it.

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
I WISH I HAD THOUGHT OF THAT!!!
I have had a bit more leading w/ bb in my guns.

[yondering]

HI,
I WISH I HAD THOUGHT OF THAT!!!
I have had a bit more leading w/ bb in my guns.

Not actually my idea, someone else on this forum suggested it. I'd tell you who, but then I'd have to ... no, actually, I just can't remember who's idea it was. It works well though and is better than using styrofoam take-out box material (although that does work too).

[S.R.Custom]

Bevel base bullets are great for lower pressure rounds if they're cast hard. Easier out of the mould, easier into the case... what's not to love?

Until the pressures start to mount, that is. All else being equal, a plain base will have more bearing surface than a bevel base bullet, meaning more material with which to grip rifling and a greater ability to keep a seal against the hot gasses behind it. In other words, as the pressure mounts, plain base has it all over bevel base for accuracy.

[StarMetal]

Bevel base bullets are great for lower pressure rounds if they're cast hard. Easier out of the mould, easier into the case... what's not to love?

Until the pressures start to mount, that is. All else being equal, a plain base will have more bearing surface than a bevel base bullet, meaning more material with which to grip rifling and a greater ability to keep a seal against the hot gasses behind it. In other words, as the pressure mounts, plain base has it all over bevel base for accuracy.

bwahahahahahaha bwahahahahahahahaha what a joke that is! [smilie=l:

Joe

[Blammer]

here's the con I hate.

when sizing and lubing in a lyman 450, I always have to wipe the bevel base off, cause it's full of lube.

[KYCaster]

Yeah, there's a con...it opens a can of worms on this forum between those who like them and those that don't. The stories that will unfold are harder to lube in the Lyman/RCBS type luber/sizers because lube is left around the bevel, they lead your barrel, and the one I love best they aren't as accurate as flat base. Don't believe all of it. If you like them, use them. Make your own conclusions.

Joe



Jeeze, this is gettin scarey.....I'm startin to agree with Starmetal Joe!!!!

I think I'll go off in the corner and suck my thumb for a while.

Jerry

[StarMetal]

Jeeze, this is gettin scarey.....I'm startin to agree with Starmetal Joe!!!!

I think I'll go off in the corner and suck my thumb for a while.

Jerry

Well fellows, that's it with me. When Jerry starts to agree with me I've had enough. :killingpc

[Bret4207]

All else being equal I prefer FB boolits. I just haven't had the same results as I have had with FB. I had, may still have I forget, a Lyman or RCBS 45 200 gr mould with a BB. The base never comes out perfect it seems. On inspection the BB appears perfectly round, but the boolits do not drop uniformly round despite all my tricks and incantations. I refuse to sacrifice any of my few remaining virgins just to get a good BB. I also went through a few hundred commercially cast BB and they were nothing special, but that could be a fit issue.

For me a FB was always easier to get to shoot. Plus the BB move the CG forward and reduces bearing length. While the BB should shoot just as well as a FB, it just doens't happen for me.

[yondering]

here's the con I hate.

when sizing and lubing in a lyman 450, I always have to wipe the bevel base off, cause it's full of lube.

No need to put up with that! See my comments above.

[StarMetal]

No need to put up with that! See my comments above.


This all too depends on how much bevel the bullet has. On slight bevels it's nary a problem.

Joe

[Changeling]

Lets see how do I back out of this. WOW Joe you sure knew what would happen down to a "T".

As I've said before my world used to be high power rifles with custom bullets and standard ones, never cast.
When I ask a question it might seem dumb to some, but I ask because I don't know.
It doesn't seem likely to me that there would be a blow by problem with a small bevel and I really don't think it would not let obturation take place.
But if there was the slightest chance that it would not cast a perfectly round/flat bullet than I would rather stick with flat base bullets, if nothing else I have learned one thing, the fit must be perfect if one expects good results. This was hammered in again by one answer to my post.

CRgaston funny thing you mentioning the RCBS 270. I just received an email from Veral Smith and he recommended the same weight to me, just not the RCBS, LOL.

Thanks much for the great and sincere replies.

[Bret4207]

IMO the problem with my mould with the weird BB had to do with the expansion characteristics. I don't know this for a fact, but it seems to me that it's probably like a mould that throws a more out of round boolit as it heats up. In this case the BB doesn't get touched by the sizer so the out of round has a bigger effect on the boolit.

Just my thoughts and worth every penny you paid for them.

[MtGun44]

I find that sizing BB boolits with a RCBS or Lyman lubesizer is a PITA due to the
bevel area filling up with a ring of lube, a pain to wipe off.

Bill

[Nora]

FWIW, and on behalf of all remaining sacrificial virgins, I'm willing to except any BB mold donations in 9mm or .357 that are bothering the current owner with any of the above mentioned issues. Send PM for address. ;)

Nora

[John Van Gelder]

This topic has been around on several of the forums, one response on another forum was that "there is really no difference because upon firing the base of the bullet actually flattens, very much like being struck by a hammer", any opinions on that?

[Gunsmoke4570]

From my experience, in my 38s and 45s BB or FB does not seem to matter much. My favorite all around 38 load uses the RCBS 150 K. I also use a 158 Magma RNFPBB, but it is not quite as accurate. All of my 45ACP molds are BB design, accurate with no leading. I have issue with BB Boolits in 9mm and 40S&W. They shoot good, but lead a bit more than I like and have to be cleaned very frequently. Switch to FB, leading almost completely gone. Now the 9 and 40 are higher pressure loads at higher velocity than my 38s and 45s, so I believe there is something to the higher pressure loads not going well with the BB.

[dla]

I just went through a bit of a learning phase with this a while back. When it was all said and done, the shape of the base didn't really factor into the leading. This was with a 44 mag revolver.

So I don't hesitate to buy bevel base bullets when they are cheap as they are easier to line up for seating on my Dillon when cranking out a zillion rounds.

What is nice about this forum is that there are enough intelligent, experienced Old Codgers to get a fellow to the best result in the shortest amount of time.

[35remington]

JVG, no, the base of the bullet doesn't flatten like being hit by a hammer in most loads fired.

Extreme bevel bases are a pain to cast. The bevel intersection with the reduced diameter base often turns out rounded rather than sharp unless tin content is increased significantly or the caster has experience in dealing with the problem. Perhaps the bevel next to the sprue plat inhibits things to some degree. Could be a big reason RCBS no longer offers the one I have in their 148 WC.

FWIW many "flatbase" bullets have some degree of slight bevel to them.

To me, flatbase is a ninety degree intersection.

[Bret4207]

Ditto on 35's comment. I've recovered BB boolits and the bevel was still there.

[Four Fingers of Death]

If there is much of a difference at pistol ranges and speeds we'd be flatout noticing anything. I used to cast DEBBWCs and liked the way I could load them sprue up. They shot liek a house on fire. I stuffed a few balls of birdshot into the lower lube orofices, didn't make a lot of difference. In the end I just wiped them off as I loaded them on a sheet of heavy brown paper (I do this for all cast anyway). I think if they were going to be stored for a long while it would be worth doing something about, but as I shot them off in a few months after loading, I figured it didn't make any difference. As it turned out it didn't. I ended up converting to Lee Liquid Alox (LLA) and no sizing from memory which simplified things enormously. I couldn't discern any real difference in sized, lubed in the lubesizer to thrown in a ice cream bucket, LLA applied, swirled around and dropped out on a sheet of brown paper (my dad used to work in a paper mill, I have a huge roll of it :D ) and left overnight. All went bang, my score were about the same and if anything the LLA smoked a little less, which was handy on foggy mornings.

[44man]

Bevel base bullets are great for lower pressure rounds if they're cast hard. Easier out of the mould, easier into the case... what's not to love?

Until the pressures start to mount, that is. All else being equal, a plain base will have more bearing surface than a bevel base bullet, meaning more material with which to grip rifling and a greater ability to keep a seal against the hot gasses behind it. In other words, as the pressure mounts, plain base has it all over bevel base for accuracy.
This is what I have found. Bearing surface changes. Can a BB shoot good---sure. Will a BB cause leading?---No, if it fits.
However it is not the seal differences, it is, as always, a match to twist with the velocity and bearing length.
They are just like a GC boolit with the check left off,some work, some don't.
You can make a lot of things work but I have always found a FB shoots better.

[Thumbcocker]

Can yondering give more details about using a shotgun wad to stop lube seep. I can't picture how to use the boolit ot punch it or where to punch from.

[Swede44mag]

I like BB Boolits they are easier to load.

If BB was no good why do they make Boat Tail and Rebated Boat Tail rifles bullets?
On Corbin’s web site he explains the benefits of Rebated Boat Tail bullets.

I may try to make some Rebated Boat Tail pistol boolits some day just to see if they would work.

[bobthenailer]

I have several handgun bullet moulds with the Bevel Bases and have also shot alot of GC bullet designes without the gas cks installed with excellent accuracy.

[HammerMTB]

Can yondering give more details about using a shotgun wad to stop lube seep. I can't picture how to use the boolit ot punch it or where to punch from.

Well, I'm not Yondering but we do work together.
If I am understanding his post correctly, put a petal of a shotgun wad on the die. Put the boolit on top and press it down. It should punch a round piece out of the wad petal, and in theory, it'd be best left right where it is. When the boolit punch pushes the boolit back out, the plastic of the wad petal will have guarded the boolit base against lube migration to the BB. Leave the punched out petal piece in place, and repeat.
Sound good? NJow I gotta go try it myself. 'Cept I don't have any BB boolits to lube. D'OH! :brokenima

[badbob454]

OK I have to jump in here I have shot several bevel base boolits , 2 Makarov with bevel bases , and 452 in my 45 colt, several hi power in my sks without plain base and all have shot well and without abnormal amounts of leading , in no discernible leading at all ... and what about the boat tail bullet ,??? probably the most extreme bb bullet out there .I just put in an order for another to accurate molds the 36-250b bullet mold this design and 2 of my others are in his catalog , variations of his bullet designs..
http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=36-250B-D.png

.my 2c worth

[Petrol & Powder]

As predicted way back in Post # 2 by StarMetal - there are a lot of opinions on this topic.
I started with FB boolits because I didn't want to deal with the lubing issues. I've never had a problem getting FB bullets to drop from the mold nor have I had issues getting FB bullets started in the case mouth. As Mtgun44 stated, it's just easier to use FB bullets with a lubersizer.
I will say that in theory a true double ended bevel base wadcutter would speed up the reloading process because the orientation of the bullet would be a non-issue. Then I read about people that go to pains to ensure that the sprue end of the double ended bullet is pointing out of the case, which sort of negates the entire speed of loading advantage to using DOUBLE ended bullets. :razz:
In the FWIW column, the FB bullet design seems like a simple solution to the lubing process.

[44man]

Bevel base bullets are great for lower pressure rounds if they're cast hard. Easier out of the mould, easier into the case... what's not to love?

Until the pressures start to mount, that is. All else being equal, a plain base will have more bearing surface than a bevel base bullet, meaning more material with which to grip rifling and a greater ability to keep a seal against the hot gasses behind it. In other words, as the pressure mounts, plain base has it all over bevel base for accuracy.
This is my stance. But it is not gas seal or leading, it is drive length to take rifling.
Working with a Lee BB mold for the .357 was just not doing it so I cut the BB out to make a FB. I cut groups in half instantly.
The base is the final grip, you can have rifling skid at the front of a boolit but it MUST stop at the base.

[USAFrox]

Bevel Base bullets cause global warming and holes in the ozone layer. Also, they cause red-headed children. Just say no.

[bobthenailer]

I have several BB moulds and all are accurate from a varitey of firearms.
I also have several gas check type bullet moulds that i regulary use without the gas checks installed and get excellent accuracy from a varitey of firearms.

[fivegunner]

come on everybody knows you will go blind if you shoot BB boolits.:bigsmyl2:

[rintinglen]

I lube with a Lyman or RCBS sizer and have found both the problem with lube rings on the basal portion of the boolit to be troublesome. I have also found that flat base wadcutters were slightly more accurate in Target 38 Revolvers. HOWEVER, if somebody gave me a gross or two, I'd have no qualms about shooting them up. I don't buy BB molds, because if I'm going to spend my time casting boolits, I want the best possible result. But if I am just buying blasting boolits, I'll take whatever's cheapest.

By the by, the references to boat-tailed bullets are bogus. Cast boolits compare to condoms to about the same degree that my wife resembles Scarlett Johansen, which is to say, not very.

[ole 5 hole group]

Who in the hell is Scarlett Johansen?? and rintinglen, I think you like to live on the edge - good luck with that.:razz:

As to FB, BB - I can shoot both types all around my intended target.

[Outpost75]

When loading for revolvers in which the barrel groove diameter is significantly smaller than the diameter of the cylinder throats, using a bevel-based bullet will reduce forcing cone leading. This is because when a larger diameter bullet, such as .455" loaded in the .45 Colt, transitions from the cylinder and forcing cone into a barrel of much smaller groove diameter, such as .451", typical of many Rugers, a "fin" is dragged off the sharp edge of the base of the bullet. This thinner "fin" section has reduced heat capacity, compared to the surrounding bullet shank, and is easily blasted away and deposited on the walls of the forcing cone.

Having a bevel gives displaced metal from upset of the bullet base somewhere to flow and mitigates against this finning. This is especially important in higher pressure rounds like heavier .45 Colt "Ruger loads," .45 ACP in autopistols, .357 and .44 Magnums or others which operate at pressures exceeding about 20,000 psi.

Flatbased bullets may give slightly better accuracy IF they fit the ball seat and origin of rifling EXACTLY and cylinder throats are not more than 0.0005" larger than barrel groove diameter. In extensive test firings using accurized M1911 pistols firing H&G68s of both profiles in typical target loads, the difference between the two was insignificant.

[rintinglen]

Who in the hell is Scarlett Johansen?? and rintinglen, I think you like to live on the edge - good luck with that.:razz:

As to FB, BB - I can shoot both types all around my intended target.

OK, sometimes I can neither spell nor type. The lovely young woman's last name is actually JOHANSSON.

[paul h]

The problem with these discussions is nobody is mentioning their accuracy standards. To me an accurate handgun will group 1" at 25 yds, a very accurate one 1" at 50 and an extremely accurate 1" at 100 yds. Unless one is using an accurate to very accurate handgun, you really can't say whether or not a bevel base affects accuracy.

As I'm lazy and prefer to put everything in my favor I use plainbase bullets when working up loads for handguns. I want as much bearing length as possible and a nice flat base to seal the hot gasses. I've never done extensive testing on plainbase vs bevel base.

I do cast some bb bullets, they are nice for plinking bullets as they are slightly easier to deal with. Another advantage is you don't have to bell the case as much to get them started w/o shaving, and the less you bell and crimp a case the more loadings you'll get before it splits.

[luvtn]

I keep hearing about how the pressure causes the lead or lube to flow. I find cast boolits in the berm all the time that show no such flow occurred and the boolit can be reloaded as is if you don't mind a few rifling marks. I haven't loaded enough to develop an opinion one way or another about BB or FB. Give me another 20 years and I will get back too ya on that.
lt

[detox]

When loading for revolvers in which the barrel groove diameter is significantly smaller than the diameter of the cylinder throats, using a bevel-based bullet will reduce forcing cone leading. This is because when a larger diameter bullet, such as .455" loaded in the .45 Colt, transitions from the cylinder and forcing cone into a barrel of much smaller groove diameter, such as .451", typical of many Rugers, a "fin" is dragged off the sharp edge of the base of the bullet. This thinner "fin" section has reduced heat capacity, compared to the surrounding bullet shank, and is easily blasted away and deposited on the walls of the forcing cone.

Having a bevel gives displaced metal from upset of the bullet base somewhere to flow and mitigates against this finning. This is especially important in higher pressure rounds like heavier .45 Colt "Ruger loads," .45 ACP in autopistols, .357 and .44 Magnums or others which operate at pressures exceeding about 20,000 psi.



I agree.

Slower burning powders will also help prevent leading in the forcing cone area of some revolvers. For instance Bullseye loaded with flat base boolit will lead more in forcing cone area than say slower Unique loaded with flat base style boolit. Using Bevel base boolit helps even more. This applies to lower velocity (under 1000fps) also.

I discovered that the sprue plate on my Lyman "bevel" base mould needs to be tighter for perfect bevel base shape with no fins at base.

Flat base mould is easier to manufacture and cast with.

[357Ruger]

The problem with these discussions is nobody is mentioning their accuracy standards. To me an accurate handgun will group 1" at 25 yds, a very accurate one 1" at 50 and an extremely accurate 1" at 100 yds. Unless one is using an accurate to very accurate handgun, you really can't say whether or not a bevel base affects accuracy.

As I'm lazy and prefer to put everything in my favor I use plainbase bullets when working up loads for handguns. I want as much bearing length as possible and a nice flat base to seal the hot gasses. I've never done extensive testing on plainbase vs bevel base.

I do cast some bb bullets, they are nice for plinking bullets as they are slightly easier to deal with. Another advantage is you don't have to bell the case as much to get them started w/o shaving, and the less you bell and crimp a case the more loadings you'll get before it splits.

Paul, you hit the proverbial "Nail on the Head" as some shooters find hitting a pie plate at 10yards to be great accuracy. My standards are a little higher. Maybe not quite as high as yours, the only handguns I've owned that do 1" at 100 yards consistently were Single Shot (Contender, Encore and XP-100).

[ole 5 hole group]

The problem with these discussions is nobody is mentioning their accuracy standards. To me an accurate handgun will group 1" at 25 yds, a very accurate one 1" at 50 and an extremely accurate 1" at 100 yds. Unless one is using an accurate to very accurate handgun, you really can't say whether or not a bevel base affects accuracy.

I think you can because there aren't many individuals that can consistently shoot those groups at 50 or 100 yards with an extremely accurate handgun - those short barrel rifles don't count, such as the XP-100's - so if a person can consistently shoot 2" groups at 25 yards with a plain base cast and with the same load but using a beveled base and his groups open to 3", he can say the plain base shoots better with that particular load. At least this is how I would make the determination - but - going up or down with the powder charge or changing powders, you may find your handgun can shoot small groups with either bullet style - just not using the same load.:smile:

[Petrol & Powder]

Bevel Base bullets cause global warming and holes in the ozone layer. Also, they cause red-headed children. Just say no.

I knew it!

[44man]

Paul, you hit the proverbial "Nail on the Head" as some shooters find hitting a pie plate at 10yards to be great accuracy. My standards are a little higher. Maybe not quite as high as yours, the only handguns I've owned that do 1" at 100 yards consistently were Single Shot (Contender, Encore and XP-100).
Why do single shots enter into this. I had all of those that shot pennies at 100, 1" at 200 meters. I still have several left like my 10" MOA that shot 5 shots in 3/8" at 100.
When you get a revolver down to 1/2" at 100, you need to tell how, I have, many, many times.
My definition of accuracy is to beat 90% of rifles at any distance. Only a BR rifle is better.

[45 2.1]

The problem with these discussions is nobody is mentioning their accuracy standards. To me an accurate handgun will group 1" at 25 yds, a very accurate one 1" at 50 and an extremely accurate 1" at 100 yds. Unless one is using an accurate to very accurate handgun, you really can't say whether or not a bevel base affects accuracy.

Paul, quite a few years ago you plain based some Magma bevel based pistol molds for me. I tested both versions cast from the same alloy out of the same magnum handgun. The flat base turned out much better in accuracy on each of them, and some of that testing was at extended range and we're not talking target level loads either.

[Dave C.]

Hi! My name is Dave and I shoot bevel base boolits.

I shoot Conventional pistol, This is shot one handed at 50 yds and the X-ring is about one and five eighths inch.

I will shoot any type boolit/bullet that will give me an advantage.

Dave C.

[ole 5 hole group]

Hi! My name is Dave and I shoot bevel base boolits.

I shoot Conventional pistol, This is shot one handed at 50 yds and the X-ring is about one and five eighths inch.

I will shoot any type boolit/bullet that will give me an advantage.Dave C.

Ya, and I did a lot of that too and most shooters on the line including myself, didn't keep very many within that X-ring. Most of us were happy to just keep all or most rounds within the 9-ring with a few finding the 10-ring and damn few finding the X-ring.:smile:

[felix]

When you get a revolver down to 1/2" at 100, you need to tell how, I have, many, many times.
My definition of accuracy is to beat 90% of rifles at any distance. Only a BR rifle is better.

Jim, I like your accuracy standard! However, most of us cannot even begin to approach that goal. Perhaps that is why the majority of us do not even attempt group shooting for real (anymore, anyway). When I was in the competition spirit, I actually tried group shooting with pistols at 50 feet. Both revolters and target pistols. Only by luck could I make all rounds touch . It was far too much stress for my personality type. My BR shooting was poor (by peer comparison) because of my lack of weather interpretation, and that fault still persists to this day. ... felix

[paul h]

I was fortunate when the ruger 480 srh came out, there was very little printed data available so I had to work up loads and I was at the height of my curiosity of what type of accuracy a very good revolver is capable of. To wring out what the gun could do I scoped it, shot from a rest which was nothing more complex than a wood block under the guns frame and a bag filled with rice under the grip. I found 25 yds was too close for load work because groups were one large ragged hole. I did the majority of my load work at 50 yds and found that 5 shot 1" groups were obtained with just about every cast bullet I tried once I found the charge weight the gun liked. And these wern't plinking loads, the mildest was 310 gr @ 1000 fps, most were 400 gr @ 1200 fps, and even the big 460 gr sledgehammer at 1100 fps would do it.

I even took the gun to the 100yd line to see what it would do and shot a 3 shot 1 1/2" group. I have no doubt with some practice and repeated tries I'd be able to shoot 1" at 100 yds, but I kinda lost interest at that point.

I've yet to shoot 1" at 50 yds with iron sights, but I've only tried a few times. 2", no problem. Maybe I should make it my goal now that I've gotten my old model 357 fixed up. It doesn't seem to be as accurate as the SRH, but not too far off.

I don't consider myself an exceptional handgun shot, nor do I fire 1000's of rounds per year. Yeah, when I was working up the 480 loads I was shooting once or twice a week and 50-100 yds per session, but not so much lately.

I do know some exceptional shots with handguns, like making 75% of your hits on 8" plates at 75 yds, with an iron sighted officers model offhand. Or the guy that could empty a cylinder full of 475 linebaugh loads at a 200yd steel ram offhand with irons, and every shot hit.

[9.3X62AL]

Almost 4 years later, and I still can't see a significant advantage of square-base vs. bevel-base. As far as getting lube on boolit bases more readily in a 450/4500 with the BB, I set my finished sizings base-down on a paper towel after processing, and as I pick them up for seating I give them a little twist against the paper to clean off the bases.

[Dave C.]

Ya, and I did a lot of that too and most shooters on the line including myself, didn't keep very many within that X-ring. Most of us were happy to just keep all or most rounds within the 9-ring with a few finding the 10-ring and damn few finding the X-ring.:smile:

With all due respect, I'm not most shooters.
Dave C.

[prs]

One "con" regarding BB design goes back to one of the above sited "pro's"; they are easier to set into the cases at the press while cranking out bulk ammo. Try as I may to detect and cull split cases when picking-up brass, washing brass, drying brass, etc; on occasion I either miss one or the "M" die creats one. That split case will not retain its flare, a plain base boolit will not seat in such case mouth with typical technique, a belveled design often will set into that case. If that loaded split case round is not detected, the poorly retained bullet is at risk for being driven deeply into the case when chambered. A possible KABOOM is nothing to invite. Be ever alert when loading.

prs

[Rio Grande]

Bevel base not good for pan lubing. I think I read all the posts and was surprised no one mentioned this.
Doesn't anybody pan lube anymore?
What ever happened to my Transylvania twist?

[rondog]

I certainly don't have a fraction of the experience here! My only attempts at serious accuracy with cast bullets was trying to sight in a scope on my Winchester Trapper .44 using handloads and commercial 240gr. BB LSWC cast bullets.

My accuracy was awful, bullets were hitting all over the target and sighting in the scope was impossible. I even tried a different scope with the same results. I then scrubbed the barrel 'til it gleamed, and switched to Winchester Silvertip jacketed hollowpoint bullets. World of difference! At 100 yds. I can put all shots into a playing card.

So, I can't say whether it's a problem with the bullet size vs. bore size, or if it's the bevel base of the bullets, but I'm not going to shoot them in my rifle anymore. I'll use them in my revolver. When I start casting .44 bullets they'll be flat-based. If my Winchester likes those, the remaining bb's will likely get melted down and recast.

[paul h]

Commercial cast bullets often shoot terribly because they are too small, too hard and the lube they use is terrible. The absolute most horrendous leading I've ever had was with commercial hard cast 357 pistol bullets in my 35 whelen. Long strips of lead all the way down the barrel. Casting my own bullets properly sized and lubed resulted in 10 shot 1" groups at 50 yds.