Gotta love bullseye

[jonk]

It's my favorite pistol powder. You can use it in anything from the 25 auto to the 45 acp (and others I'm sure, that's just the range I personally have). No you might not have the top velocity with it but for punching paper, who cares? I can't say it is ALWAYS the most accurate but usually does pretty well as an off the shelf option.

The only complaint is that for some cartridges (for which it is very well suited given its fast burn rate) such as the 32 acp, there is no load data. Odd, that. Easy enough to start with about 1 grain and work up until it operates the slide though.

[Jim]

Gotta piece of a lb. of Unique, a piece of a pound of 2400, 8 lbs. of B/E & 12 lbs. of WC820. Can you guess what my two favorite powders are?

[AZ-Stew]

The only drawback to Bullseye is that it's easy to load a double charge. With care in charging, though, it's a great powder.

Regards,

Stew

[Shiloh]

I use it for .38 and .357 target loads as well as .45 ACP. I use a LOT of it.

Shiloh

[EMC45]

I use it a bunch!

[rwt101]

I use it for 9x18 Mak and for 9x19 Luger. I just can't find a good recipe that works best.
Bob T

[lwknight]

Bullseye is cool. I like to put 2.0 grains in a 100 grain WC 38spl. Sounds like a 22 and shoots about 550-600 fps. Not real accurate for me but will thump rats in the barn without knocking holes in the tin if accidentlyt shot.

[phishfood]

I am currently getting some BAD fouling with it pushing 200 gr cast SWC's in a 1911. So bad that I am getting failures to lock up in as little as 30 rounds. This past weekend, after 100 rounds, the chamber, feed ramp, and even the rails on the frame beside the feed ramp had heavy deposits.

I was thinking of bumping up the load from 4.0 grains to maybe 4.3 to see if the higher pressures might cause a more complete burn.

Any thoughts?

[Ricochet]

Gotta piece of a lb. of Unique, a piece of a pound of 2400, 8 lbs. of B/E & 12 lbs. of WC820. Can you guess what my two favorite powders are?
Unique and 2400, because you've burned 'em all up?

[fredj338]

I tried BE waaaaay back when. We have so many better powders today; cleaner burning, just as cheap w/ as good or better accuracy. I abandoned BE for WST in service roudns for target loads. For heavier stuff, tough to beat one of the med. burners like Unique, WSF or Universal.

[Guesser]

phish: just as a point of reference, I use 5.0 gr. Bullseye for a 230 gr. anything in all my 45 auto shooters, revolvers and autos. Burns clean at higher pressures.

[Shiloh]

3.8 gr of Bullseye with a LEE 200 gr TLSWC. The combo of alox and Bullseye means a dirty gun, but what the heck. Accuracy is name of the game.

This load cycles the action and I have no failure to lock up even after several hundred rounds.

Shiloh

[35remington]

If your gun doesn't function after 30 rounds of 4.0 Bullseye and a 200 SWC in 45 ACP.....there's something seriously wrong with your gun.

It shouldn't be anywhere near that dirty. It isn't for me, and I've used a similar load for quite awhile.

The bullseye shooters wouldn't be using 3.5 to 4.0 Bullseye with a 185/200 grain SWC if it locked the gun up after 30 rounds, or they'd never make it through a match.

I'd reevaluate the loading setup you're using, including bullet pull. Compare unburned powder with a jacketed load as well using the same charge, and see if your lube isn't extra goopy.

Please, let's not have someone claim that Bullseye "detonates" in light charges in this thread due to "flashover" or some other imaginary phenomenon. I've read enough internet conjecture on this point that I'm getting tired of seeing it.

[phishfood]

If your gun doesn't function after 30 rounds of 4.0 Bullseye and a 200 SWC in 45 ACP.....there's something seriously wrong with your gun.

It shouldn't be anywhere near that dirty. It isn't for me, and I've used a similar load for quite awhile.

The bullseye shooters wouldn't be using 3.5 to 4.0 Bullseye with a 185/200 grain SWC if it locked the gun up after 30 rounds, or they'd never make it through a match.

I'd reevaluate the loading setup you're using, including bullet pull. Compare unburned powder with a jacketed load as well using the same charge, and see if your lube isn't extra goopy.

Please, let's not have someone claim that Bullseye "detonates" in light charges in this thread due to "flashover" or some other imaginary phenomenon. I've read enough internet conjecture on this point that I'm getting tired of seeing it.

Excuse me if I sound like a total newbie ( I am) but what exactly do you mean by bullet pull?

I am using Lee Liquid Alox, and am trying to get a really good coating. Maybe that might be causing the problem?

I am curious as to how the fouling is getting into the places it is in the quantities that it is. I can see the buildup in the chamber, but the buildup on the ramp and rails just doesn't make sense to me. There are no black smears on the outside of the casings as I understand would be present if the case wasn't sealing fully.

[454PB]

Excuse me if I sound like a total newbie ( I am) but what exactly do you mean by bullet pull?

I am using Lee Liquid Alox, and am trying to get a really good coating. Maybe that might be causing the problem?

I am curious as to how the fouling is getting into the places it is in the quantities that it is. I can see the buildup in the chamber, but the buildup on the ramp and rails just doesn't make sense to me. There are no black smears on the outside of the casings as I understand would be present if the case wasn't sealing fully.

Lee Alox lube can cause exactly what you describe if applied too heavily. Combine that with low pressure and I can see why you're having problems.

Try less Alox and more powder.

[lwknight]

Scrub your chamber clean like super clean with a brush un a drill and put a thin wipe of Mobile One motor oil on the slide. I bet you shoot a lot more even with a dirty gun before you start having troubles.
Don't laugh, Mobile One is overengineered for anything that a gun could do to it.

[fecmech]

Bullseye, ah yes let me count the ways. 3.8 grs behind a 185 Saeco SWC or Lyman 200 gr SWC the most accurate load out of my 1911 Wad Gun and I clean it every thousand rounds whether it needs it or not! Followed by 4.2 grs behind a H&G 158 RN as the most accurate out of a K-38 seconded by 3.1 grs back of the H&G# 50 WC. Then there is 6.0 grs of BE and the Lee 121 TC (9mm) in a Rossi 92 .357 that pretty much stays in 3"@ 100 yds. There is a reason that powder is still around after 100 years!

[JIMinPHX]

When I first started loading ammo, it was all .45acp factory cast bolits with W-231 under them. Then about 20 years ago, 231 got scarce & I ran out. I begrudgingly picked up a pound of Bullseye when that happened. B.E. has been my most commonly used powder ever since.

It works well in many many application & allows a really wide velocity range without getting funny on you. It's not usually the best thing for top velocity loads, but it is usually very good for most other things that you might want to try & it is one of the cheapest powders to use. A little bit goes a long way.

Lately though, I have noticed that BE gives me a little more leading than Unique does in some guns. I can't explain why, but it does, & the results are consistent.

3 grains of BE is my do-all lite pistol load for medium caliber guns. I use it in everything from .380 to 9-mak, to 9-luger, to .38spl, to .357 mag & even a .44 round ball gallery load. I leave a powder measure permanently set up on my bench to throw that powder charge since I use it so often. I'm not saying that 3-grains of BE is the best thing to use with all boolit weights in all those calibers. It's not. But I have at least 1 load for each of those calibers that it does work well with.

[dualsport]

Let's back up for a second. It sounds like lwknight knows something. Please tell me more about this oil. I'm always looking for economical alternatives and am down to my last gallon of VietNam era CLP. Thanks PS My clunker homebuilt 1911 doesn't know how to choke. Loose tolerances is the name of the game. I think it would function if I poured LLA in it and dragged it behind my dirt bike thru the sand. And it'll hold about 8" at 25 yds, all I want from a .45. (It looks like I did drag it behind a motorcycle! Thanks Sarco.)

[d_striker]

I love Bullseye as well. One of the cheapest/most economical powders out there. Good accuracy as well.

My casting adventure started with 9mm. I'm going to start casting for .40 S&W and can't wait to see what kind of groups I can get with Bullseye using a Lee TL401-175-SWC boolit.

[EMC45]

I have come to the conclusion that if it says Hercules or Alliant on the can it will be a dirty powder to a degree. I can live with it. I like my BE loads in my .38 and .45!

[JIMinPHX]

(It looks like I did drag it behind a motorcycle! Thanks Sarco.)

Let me guess, the grumpy old coot in Stirling just put your pistol in a manila envelope & sent it via parcel post with no padding, right?

That seems to be his standard practice unless you pay him extra for better shipping. The really aggravating part, is that he doesn't tell you that you have the option when you place the order. He just ships it like it is something that belongs in a landfill. By the time it gets to you, it may actually belong there.

[lwknight]

Dualsport, I finally gave in to the mobile 1 crazy idea and tried it. IME with my P-95 that hates light loads anyway. I had hundreds of cheapo gunshow bulk ammo given to me.
It was underpowered and nasty sooty powder of who knows. I could shoot about 80 rounds that would cycle a clean pistol (P-95) then it started stovepiping and not ejecting as the pistol got dirtier.

I had been reading dozens of testimonies an ConcealedCarryForum.com that Mobile 1 really made a difference. There was much debate and as more and more tried it the debatees were almost all persuaded that it was worthwhile to try a few drops of Mobile 1 on the slide.
They say it makes the slide feel like it was on roller bearings.

So, I tried it myself. Lo and Behold. I could shoot up to 200 rounds of the C**p ammo that I had before the SPs and FTEs set in.

Take it for whats worth. A few drops as an experiment will cost you next to nothing and you might become a believer.

[dualsport]

The parts I got from Sarco were nasty looking, and cheap. Cheap was what I wanted. After a little TLC they all came together well. Now I have a gun I don't mind shooting filthy nasty (goes bang everytime) Wolf ammo in. Can't say it's match material, almost gotta use two fingers to pull the trigger! Anyway, I'm trying BE in just about everything, got an amazing load for my Win 94 30-30 from Ed Harris, no gc, LLA, shot it in a match. Wasn't last, for a change!

[Ricochet]

Wolf ammo does work perfectly in my .45s. It leaves a lot of green flakes of half-burned powder. Apparently they use some stuff they have on hand that's pretty slow burning for .45 hardball. Probably meant for 9mm Makarov, or it might be a shotgun powder.

[dualsport]

LW, thanks for the info. What the heck, I'll try it. I keep one of those old squirt cans around the shop with any old oil that's handy, for those odd things that need oil. I'll pick up a quart of Mobil's finest and give it a try. The first thing I thought of was maybe it'd work on an AR. I've never shot one in combat but am told by my son who has that they oiled the hell out of them before going out on a mission. I'm speaking past tense as the Good Lord saw fit to return my boy to me with all his parts and pieces still attached, a little crispy in spots but better off than most of his friends. This doesn't have a damn thing to do with Bullseye, does it!? Sorry. Now that I'm thinking of it I'd like to find a thread where it fits, any vets out there shot their M4 or M16' til it gunked up jamed? What did you use for oil? (I'm not totally off topic... Bullseye...dirty...oil...M4s...see the connection? I'm stretching it a little.:groner:

[HORNET]

dualsport, you've been on here long enough that you should have realized by now that going off-topic is fairly normal around here. Almost mandatory for some topics. BTW, glad that your boy made it back intact.

[Jumping Frog]

I have never used Bullseye, but have heard strong supporters name it as their favorite for as long as I've reloaded.

Since I use a Lee Loadmaster to load all my pistol rounds, I've tended to use Ramshot Zip, W231, Titegroup, and other small ball powders that meter like water in my powder measure.

How well does Bullseye meter in small quantities and how are the particles shaped?

[lwknight]

Its small flakes and meters out very well. not a whole lot different than using W231

[fecmech]

LW, thanks for the info. What the heck, I'll try it. I keep one of those old squirt cans around the shop with any old oil that's handy, for those odd things that need oil. I'll pick up a quart of Mobil's finest and give it a try. The first thing I thought of was maybe it'd work on an AR. I've never shot one in combat but am told by my son who has that they oiled the hell out of them before going out on a mission. I'm speaking past tense as the Good Lord saw fit to return my boy to me with all his parts and pieces still attached, a little crispy in spots but better off than most of his friends. This doesn't have a damn thing to do with Bullseye, does it!? Sorry. Now that I'm thinking of it I'd like to find a thread where it fits, any vets out there shot their M4 or M16' til it gunked up jamed? What did you use for oil? (I'm not totally off topic... Bullseye...dirty...oil...M4s...see the connection? I'm stretching it a little.:groner:

Dualsport--Here is a very good thread on Mobil 1 and AR and general gun use. After I read it I use Mobil 1 on all my guns.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=291494&highlight=mobil

[mpmarty]

Back in the sixties H.P. White laboratories did a study of BE and 38 spl blowups. They never did reach a definite conclusion AFIK. I was loading for 38/357 back then and just decided that safe was better than sorry.

Since then I've used many kegs of Red Dot and 700X in 45 acp and 10mm and never been sorry. I never crowd the envelope with this pair of powders, if I need more oomph I go to Unique or 2400 (even AA#9 in 10mm).

[lwknight]

Unique and 2400 cannot even be compared i the same class.

[fecmech]

Back in the sixties H.P. White laboratories did a study of BE and 38 spl blowups. They never did reach a definite conclusion AFIK. I was loading for 38/357 back then and just decided that safe was better than sorry.

Since then I've used many kegs of Red Dot and 700X in 45 acp and 10mm and never been sorry. I never crowd the envelope with this pair of powders, if I need more oomph I go to Unique or 2400 (even AA#9 in 10mm).

I posted the article from HP White some time back on this board and The High Road. HP White basically said the blow ups where due to double charges and deep seating of wadcutters. That was the only way they could generate enough pressure to blow up K frame Smiths. Having shot PPC for a number of years and seen (and heard!) some of the ammo that was loaded by competitors my vote is for reloader screwups.

[jack19512]

dualsport, you've been on here long enough that you should have realized by now that going off-topic is fairly normal around here.





I don't think I ever started a thread here yet that didn't get way off topic. Actually when I think about it the threads of mine that I started seems to get more interesting after they go off topic. :groner:

[rwt101]

I reload 9mm luger and 9mm mak with Bullseye powder. I have not been able to come up with a good load that will cycle my S&W SW9ve. It seems that BE load data says anywhere from 3.0 GR to 6.0 gr. of powder. I find it hard to believe that much of a range.

I took an empty 9x19 case and filled it and it took 9 grains of bullseye to the top. I then emptied the case and put a 125 cast LRN into a depth of 1.140. I marked the bullet and removed it. Then put a mark on the case at that depth. Filled to that line and measured the powder. So 5.4 would be all the way up to the bottom of the bullet.

If I remember correctly, the powder charge should be from 60 to 80% of the usable case volume. So 80% would be about 4.3 gr. And 60% would be about 3.2 gr.

So if I am thinking right a range of 3.2 to 4.3 gr would be good.

Am I thinking right on this?
Bob T

[tactikel]

I've use BE for .38 spl and .45 acp for 30 years. I tried titegroup and LOVE it!

[vp146b4]

I like my BE alot. 38's and 45's is all I've ever used. I also load 4.2 w/300g in a 45/70 Trapdoor for 50' indoor shooting, not only fun, but really accurate too. Sure it's dirty, but you still have to clean your barrel, even using "clean" powder, so what's the difference, three more patches? I'll stick with the BE.

[lwknight]

I do not think that BE is ideal for 9mm. So far WSF seems to be a good forgiving high performance powder. With 124 grain Js I can use from 5.4 grains to get 1050 up to 6.6 grains to get 1375 fps. I know that it is Plus "P" Plus Plus but I shoot a ruger, what the hay.

[Cadillo]

If your gun doesn't function after 30 rounds of 4.0 Bullseye and a 200 SWC in 45 ACP.....there's something seriously wrong with your gun.

It shouldn't be anywhere near that dirty. It isn't for me, and I've used a similar load for quite awhile.

The bullseye shooters wouldn't be using 3.5 to 4.0 Bullseye with a 185/200 grain SWC if it locked the gun up after 30 rounds, or they'd never make it through a match.

I'd reevaluate the loading setup you're using, including bullet pull. Compare unburned powder with a jacketed load as well using the same charge, and see if your lube isn't extra goopy.

Please, let's not have someone claim that Bullseye "detonates" in light charges in this thread due to "flashover" or some other imaginary phenomenon. I've read enough internet conjecture on this point that I'm getting tired of seeing it.


Apparently the manufactureres of Norma propellents hold a diffferent viewpoint with regard to this phenomenom with powders in general. I refer you to P.O. Ackley's handbook for Shooters and Reloaders Volume 1, page 105, chapter on reduced loads. But, Hey! What do Ackley and Norma know?

Did I mention Barsto. The owner of the company addresses the issue with regard to detonation of light charges of Bullseye powder in his video on barrel fitting. Sometimes a smoke trail will lead to fire.

[felix]

Please, let's not have someone claim that Bullseye "detonates" in light charges in this thread due to "flashover" or some other imaginary phenomenon. I've read enough internet conjecture on this point that I'm getting tired of seeing it.

Yes, they ignored the O-ring engineer for the Challenger. Yes, even the rudder engineer for the Titanic.

... felix

[Recluse]

I've run 4.3 grains of Bullseye behind 200SWC boolits in several 45ACPs for years. I've played around with the charge, and simply cannot find a better one for these two particular guns.

Likewise, 2.7 behind a 38 Special 148 LWC.

Rounding out my absolute favorite pistol powders are W231 and AA#5.

And Mobil1 as a gun lube? Good stuff--I'm partial to the 15W50.

:coffee:

[Recluse]

Have a beer Bob and look up censorship, little power corrupts, and over moderation, and what the Obama administration wants to do to our freedoms.

Sorry I'm not a druggie like most. I do shoot up Bullseye. See we're on topic.

Regards
Joe

Pepto Bismo, rubbed on the hands as well as ingested orally, might help you with these frequent cases of diarrhea of the mouth and keyboard that seemingly afflict your from out of nowhere.

Why don't YOU look up censorship and the First Amendment? You might LEARN something as it relates to private enterprises and channels of communications. :rolleyes:

:coffee:

[Uncle R.]

Joe


Take a hint or take a hike, your choice.


Bob

Wow. Gee.

[mpmarty]

OK neutral corners everyone:bigsmyl2:

[robertbank]

Back to the merits of Bullseye.

Recluse I, like you, find bullseye a great powder for the .45acp. I have found myself stuck on 231 though as it works well in the 9MM, a round I shoot a great deal. 5.3 gr of 231 works for me under the 200 gr LSWC I cast.

Take Care

Bob

[Wally]

Back to the merits of Bullseye.

Recluse I, like you, find bullseye a great powder for the .45acp. I have found myself stuck on 231 though as it works well in the 9MM, a round I shoot a great deal. 5.3 gr of 231 works for me under the 200 gr LSWC I cast.

Take Care

Bob

I was a loyal and devoted fan of W-231 for years until they raised the price higher than that of Bullseye. Turns out I was buying Bullseye at a lower price and could use less of it, per charge, than W-231. Now I use Bullseye. 5 grains of Bullseye in with a 200 LSWC bullet in my .45 ACP is one fine load. I use 3.5 in my 9mm.

[Recluse]

Back to the merits of Bullseye.

Recluse I, like you, find bullseye a great powder for the .45acp. I have found myself stuck on 231 though as it works well in the 9MM, a round I shoot a great deal. 5.3 gr of 231 works for me under the 200 gr LSWC I cast.

Take Care

Bob

For my .45ACP 200 grain stuff, I've found the Bullseye does best. But for the 230RN, I like 5.0 of W231. Go figure?

Haven't had much (good) luck with Bullseye in the 9mm. But then again, I haven't had any real luck with cast boolits in the 9mm to begin with--at least not compared to jacketed bullets. And for those, I've found nothing that beats AA#5. And that AA#5 makes for a REAL sweet load in my .38 special 158SCW and 158RN.

I've had some luck with Bullseye in the long gun rounds as well, at least for light shooting and plinking.

:coffee:

[Wally]

For my .45ACP 200 grain stuff, I've found the Bullseye does best. But for the 230RN, I like 5.0 of W231. Go figure?

Haven't had much (good) luck with Bullseye in the 9mm. But then again, I haven't had any real luck with cast boolits in the 9mm to begin with--at least not compared to jacketed bullets. And for those, I've found nothing that beats AA#5. And that AA#5 makes for a REAL sweet load in my .38 special 158SCW and 158RN.

I've had some luck with Bullseye in the long gun rounds as well, at least for light shooting and plinking.

:coffee:

With the 9mm, I have done pretty well with my Taurus 99AF---it's best to size bullets on the big sze---.358~.359" if they will chamber for you..hopefully doing so will work for you.

[robertbank]

I think Bullseye is to fast for the 9MM. The cartridge really does favour powders closer to Unique. If you have a mind try 3.9 - 4.1 gr of 231 under 125 gr Lead bullets in your 9MM. The load is extremely accurate in my 9MM pistols and makes PF for IDPA/IPSC if you shoot either of those sports.

I ordered a 147 gr mold from Lyman. My WW alloy drops bullets out of this mold weighing 154 gr! I use only 2.7 grains of powder to reach PF with this bullet and it is accurate and very cheap to shoot. The bullet does stabilize in my guns which was an initial concern. I haven't tried a Bullseye combo yet with that bullet.

I have been sizing my bullets .357 but have recently moved down to .356. To early to tell if it makes a difference.

Take Care

Bob

[Wally]

I think Bullseye is to fast for the 9MM. The cartridge really does favour powders closer to Unique. If you have a mind try 3.9 - 4.1 gr of 231 under 125 gr Lead bullets in your 9MM. The load is extremely accurate in my 9MM pistols and makes PF for IDPA/IPSC if you shoot either of those sports.

I ordered a 147 gr mold from Lyman. My WW alloy drops bullets out of this mold weighing 154 gr! I use only 2.7 grains of powder to reach PF with this bullet and it is accurate and very cheap to shoot. The bullet does stabilize in my guns which was an initial concern. I haven't tried a Bullseye combo yet with that bullet.

I have been sizing my bullets .357 but have recently moved down to .356. To early to tell if it makes a difference.

Take Care

Bob

Using a Lee 147 (was for the 38 Super and is NLA) grain RN cast bullet, which weighs 155 grains as cast) and using 3.5 grains of Bullseye I obtain 940 FPS MV...itv is very accurate and has a very low std deviation...I sized to .358".

[Recluse]

With the 9mm, I have done pretty well with my Taurus 99AF---it's best to size bullets on the big sze---.358~.359" if they will chamber for you..hopefully doing so will work for you.

OK, that's interesting because one of my 9mm guns is a Taurus PT92 (fixed sight version of your gun). My Browning Hi-Power and Sig P226 both like the .356 boolits.

Of course, I haven't slugged my Taurus barrel. . . but I haven't slugged the other two (9mm) barrels either. Haven't seen the need: Never got good accuracy out of ANY lead boolit cast by anyone for 9mm. I cast and load more for plinking than for serious shooting.

My lead loads for a 124RN 9mm boolit generally are around 4.1gr AA#2, or the same with W231. Bullseye has never worked well for me in any of the guns. Maybe with a lighter boolit?

:coffee:

[Cadillo]

[/I][/B]


Apparently the manufactureres of Norma propellents hold a diffferent viewpoint with regard to this phenomenom with powders in general. I refer you to P.O. Ackley's handbook for Shooters and Reloaders Volume 1, page 105, chapter on reduced loads. But, Hey! What do Ackley and Norma know?

Did I mention Barsto. The owner of the company addresses the issue with regard to detonation of light charges of Bullseye powder in his video on barrel fitting. Sometimes a smoke trail will lead to fire.

Don't anyone misunderstand my meaning. I have over 12lbs. of BE in my loading room and use it in many of my 45ACP loads. A little bit dirty, but accurate and cost effective.

I also have several cans of gasoline in my garage. Good stuff with quite a few uses, but as with the Bulleye, I handle it with respect for what it is.

[Wally]

OK, that's interesting because one of my 9mm guns is a Taurus PT92 (fixed sight version of your gun). My Browning Hi-Power and Sig P226 both like the .356 boolits.

Of course, I haven't slugged my Taurus barrel. . . but I haven't slugged the other two (9mm) barrels either. Haven't seen the need: Never got good accuracy out of ANY lead boolit cast by anyone for 9mm. I cast and load more for plinking than for serious shooting.

My lead loads for a 124RN 9mm boolit generally are around 4.1gr AA#2, or the same with W231. Bullseye has never worked well for me in any of the guns. Maybe with a lighter boolit?

:coffee:

I just checked mine--it mikes out to .3555"..oversize bullets will foul the bore but a tight cloth patch cleans it quite easily.

[sleeper1428]

OK, that's interesting because one of my 9mm guns is a Taurus PT92 (fixed sight version of your gun). My Browning Hi-Power and Sig P226 both like the .356 boolits.

Of course, I haven't slugged my Taurus barrel. . . but I haven't slugged the other two (9mm) barrels either. Haven't seen the need: Never got good accuracy out of ANY lead boolit cast by anyone for 9mm. I cast and load more for plinking than for serious shooting.

My lead loads for a 124RN 9mm boolit generally are around 4.1gr AA#2, or the same with W231. Bullseye has never worked well for me in any of the guns. Maybe with a lighter boolit?

:coffee:

I have to agree with you. My Taurus PT92AF likes boolits sized .356 and I've put a LOT of them through this handgun. I generally use 4 to 4.5 gr of Bullseye, depending upon the weight of the boolit I'm using at the time, and the accuracy has always been excellent. And just like you, I haven't taken the time to slug the barrel on this weapon simply because the .356 boolits work so well. I guess it just depends on what works for each person.

sleeper1428

[Cactus Farmer]

Gotta love bullseye & 2400 &Unique & Green Dot & Red Dot & Blue Dot. In fact all the double based powders.....I just love the smell of nitro.
Now heres the question....Why does it seem that the double based powders are more long lived than single based ones? I have never found any old cans of DB with red dust but rather often find degraded single based ones? Nitro glyserine in more unstable than nitro cellulose it would seem to me .........

[dominicfortune00]

I like to load 3.0 grains of BE with a swaged Rem 45 Colt boolit for my Mark II Webley.

Makes a nice plinker load.

[azrednek]

I have never used Bullseye

Didn't think that was possible!! Go straight to Reloaders Jail, do not pass go etc


How well does Bullseye meter in small quantities and how are the particles shaped?

I've metered it as low as 2.7 without any problems.

[Ricochet]

Gotta love bullseye & 2400 &Unique & Green Dot & Red Dot & Blue Dot. In fact all the double based powders.....I just love the smell of nitro.
Now heres the question....Why does it seem that the double based powders are more long lived than single based ones? I have never found any old cans of DB with red dust but rather often find degraded single based ones? Nitro glyserine in more unstable than nitro cellulose it would seem to me .........
It would seem that way, wouldn't it? Nitrocellulose really is more unstable in storage, though. I think the main answer is in the hydrophobic, plastic gel of nitrocellulose and nitroglycerine not being prone to trapping acids like the single base stuff does. Residual sulfuric and nitric acids left over from the nitration process, and nitric and nitrous acids produced by spontaneous decomposition of nitrocellulose all catalyze more rapid decomposition and have to be neutralized some way. If the powder just physically won't soak this stuff up and keep it around, it helps a lot! Single base powder is more hydrophilic and is supposed to have a small percentage of water in a very thin film on the surface of the kernels to help seal it and keep it stable. Complete drying is bad for it.

[lead_her_fly]

3.5gr under any 158/160gr LSWC/LRN, 4.0gr to 4.7gr under H&G #68 to 230gr LRN in 45ACP. 4.5gr under a 200gr LRNFP in 44Mag cases for a light steel plate load.

I have used Bullseye from day 1 and will use it until the last. No hot rod loads with it, that isn't what it's good for. Nice target loads in every handgun caliber under the sun is what it shines in.

[phishfood]

Well, 50 rounds loaded to 4.4 grains didn't give me nearly the fouling that I had seen with 4.0 grains. I think I will try loading up 100 rounds and seeing what that does.

Next time I cast and lube, I will lube lighter and try backing the load back down to 4 grains.

[C1PNR]

That's the idea! Try this, try that, keep records, and let us know the results.

When I bought my USAMU accurized 1911A1 from the "old guy" at the gun club back in the 70's, he told me to load 3.5 BE under a 185 SWC by H&G or SAECO if I wanted them all to go in the same place.

He bought it at the Camp Perry matches in '58 and taught a lot of us younger shooters how to put holes in the middle of the black with that old pistol.

It's been VERY reliable in both group and function ever since I got it. It's quite clearly a "soft ball" shooter, but it does what I want it to do.:coffee:

[gray wolf]

I've run 4.3 grains of Bullseye behind 200SWC boolits in several 45ACPs for years. I've played around with the charge, and simply cannot find a better one for these two particular guns.

Likewise, 2.7 behind a 38 Special 148 LWC.

I agree with the above poster. Exactly what I use and love it. 4.3=45acp and 2.7=the 38.
4.3 of B/E in my rcbs uniflow and a 22 long rifle case for the 2.7 in the 38.
Been shooting 2.7 in the 38 since 1962. Never had a wheel gun lock up or give me any other problems. As for the springer 45 acp I can go 5 or six hunred rounds without cleaning.
I was getting a gunked up breach face and in the disconnecter area--looked like mud.
But then I found it was my lube, a to light a crimp and my boolets were 451 instead of ,452.
Now I use 4OZ. of microcrystaline wax it's pure white in color--i mix 3 or 4 teaspoons of
Hohoba oil in and don't look back. Accuracy is great and gumming up of the action is very tolerable. Going to the .452 bullet cured the dirty barrel and no more leading. I shoot range pick up metal with a little tin. This is with the H&G #68 swc. I use the same thing for my
225 grain round nose from my Lyman mold. The 4.3 of B/E is great for the two bullets.
I must say I have simular results with 4.7 grains of titegroup. I believe the 4.7 of titegroup is near max for the 225 RN bullet but I have not had a problem.
I love the microcrystaline wax and the Hohoba oil. Easy mix(simple) Yes it cost a little more
But a little goes a long way. When I shoot combat targets at 7,10 and 20 yards my pistol turns heads. I say my pistol because everyone always Say's HEY great shootin gun.
I just can't see a lube with all kinds of different things to shoot a simple low pressure 45 ACP.
I have not shot the lube in very cold temps. But I think it would be fine.
Just my 2 cents FWIW. Hope it helped.

GW.

[35remington]

I'm a little late in responding to those that had comments about the veracity of the statement of Bullseye "detonating" or not.

Norma's and P.O. commentaries were on slower rifle powders, not Bullseye. Many commonly confuse the two effects.

By all means, when you've definitively solved the "detonation" issue of Bullseye powder all by yourself, and can replicate it to the satisfaction of industry ballisticians and the manufacturer of the powder looking on, who should know something about it, please write up a complete expose here.

I am sure we would all be fascinated to read it, as it would put closure to an issue that's been "claimed" as nonaccidental characteristics of the powder for many years but never, ever proven. The Nobel prize should be forthcoming shortly.

I won't hold my breath waiting. There are many who claim to know, but who do nothing to resolve the issue if they're so certain. In the meantime, a whole lotta people shoot light charges of Bullseye without incident.

[lwknight]

35remington,
I'm a little dense sometimes so I went back and re-rad this entire thread and I can't figure out who your yelling at or what you are coming from.
B/E is like the worlds best light load powder.

[35remington]

lw, see the bottom of page two. Some are quite afraid of BE and don't agree with your last sentence.

The "detonation" issue has dogged the use of Bullseye for many years. Don't want to hijack the thread, so google the issue using those two words and witness the spectacle, still a hot internet topic after all this time.

[lwknight]

Well as usual, I had missed the critical paragraph.
I would venture a guess that someone used too light of a load and stuck a bollit in the barrel and tried to shoot it out with another one to start a tale like that. Who knows?

[HangFireW8]

The "detonation" issue has dogged the use of Bullseye for many years. Don't want to hijack the thread, so google the issue using those two words and witness the spectacle, still a hot internet topic after all this time.

Uh-huh.

Any very fast powder, combined with a large feed ramp (custom 1911's) and/or large chambers (Glocks) and casings that have been weakened near the head by repeated firing in such chambers, can have the case let go in the unsupported area. This is rather dramatic, but it is not a detonation.

Dropping a small powder in a big case in a progressive press or batch mode with an overtaxed mental capacity can result in double charges. Startling, but not an detonation.

Of course, none of this is ever the fault of the reloader. :shock:

Thus lives on the "Bullseye detonation" urban legend. What about facts?

The US Army loaded a few Billion (B, not M) 45ACP's during WWII, all with Bullseye behind a jacketed 230FMJ at 830fps muzzle velocity, they seemed to work fine. Really, really fine, as a matter of fact. Try to find that load printed today- you can't. Seems that the "specified" pressure they thought they were working at was not the peak pressure later, more advanced equipment measured. Instead of bowing to the reality of Billions (with a B, not an M) of successful WWII loads, they just dropped that listing. After all, that decision only affected hand loaders, not commercial loaders.

Of course, all those Billions (with a B, not an M) of WWII 45ACP loads were with a fresh, new case, not reloads of cases that had been through God-Knows-What.

Bullseye builds pressure quickly (consistently, but quickly), so if somethings going to let go, it will let go. But Bullseye is just doing its job.

So, Bullseye is not the best powder for max or near-max reloads in formerly stressed, partially-unsupported cases, I'll admit that. But the idea that it is occasionally or totally unsafe due to erratic performance or SEE, I don't buy it. Why not? If I was looking for a candidate for SEE, a near-double-base powder in a cartridge practically made for it is the last place I'd start.

-HF

[HangFireW8]

It's my favorite pistol powder. You can use it in anything from the 25 auto to the 45 acp (and others I'm sure, that's just the range I personally have). No you might not have the top velocity with it but for punching paper, who cares? I can't say it is ALWAYS the most accurate but usually does pretty well as an off the shelf option.

I use Bullseye primarily for 3 listed loads- a classic 38 special/wadcutter load, a short barrelled .357 Mag load, and 45ACP SWC boolits. I've tried other combinations, nothing wrong with them, but sometimes other powders have more to offer.

The .357 Mag load solved a problem- getting decent performance out of a 357 snubbie without the massive fireball. Bullseye in a listed magnum, but not maximum load, gave me the best balance of performance with the least amount of fireball.

I've found slower burning powders give longer brass life in cases fired in partially unsupported chambers. Not a negative on the powder, it just is what it is, and not a problem with factory new cases, just something to keep in mind when using it. It builds pressure quickly, sometimes you want that, sometimes you can tolerate that, sometimes you don't want it.

-HF

[35remington]

HF, you're preaching to the converted. I don't have a problem with BE in any load. Many do, and never let an opportunity go by to explain exactly what's happening when they hear of some gun damaging event, and fasten on to an explanation as the cause when other possibilities are equally likely or more likely. The problem is there's no evidence that supports some hypothesis, but that doesn't cure rampant speculation from coming to the fore.

I don't think powder type matters when speaking of a weakened case and it's likelihood of failure. If it's weak, it'll let go with any powder in an auto. Fast, slow, or whatever, as pressure peaks while the bullet is still in the bore for any of them, equalizing the chance of blowout. It's the pressure level, whatever the powder.

Gen. Hatcher and others have printed at various times the amount of Bullseye in loadings for Ball ammo in the 1911, variously reporting it as from 4.6 to 5.0 grains, depending upon lot (see Hatcher's Notebook or his Textbook of Pistols and Revolvers). In my 1911's, around 5 grains approximates factory or military velocities with a FMJ bullet.

What prompted the Bullseye hysteria is the 2.7 Bullseye/148 wadcutter load mentioned by some here as their favorite. Many have claimed "detonation" when their guns were destroyed (completely discarding the possibility of an overload) and their explanation of its cause is distinctly different than many accepted definitions of SEE. Further, many make claims of events that involve slow rifle powders in large cases and relate this to small charges of fast pistol powders in pistol cases. Calling both SEE doesn't quite cover it.

Different animal.

Just explaining.

[HangFireW8]

35Remington,

Glad to see we're in agreement.

-HF

[Clark]

The detonation phenomena I have never been able to reproduce.
In Feb 2001 Handloader magazine, John Haviland's article on
reduced loads quotes Ron Rieber of Hodgdon as saying that there is a
problem with reduced loads in cartridges with large powder capacities
compared to their bore. The powder partially ignites sending the bullet
into the bore and then lodging and stopping. The charge then fully
ignites causing a pressure spike. He has been unable to reproduce this
phenomena in the lab with a new barrel, however, in a rough throated
..243 with a slow burning powder and reduced charge can make a pressure
spike that will lock the bolt shut.

http://home.comcast.net/~c.magnuson/dscf0032bulletpinch308brass243chambercroppedtwice. jpg
I fired these 3 rounds sequentially in a 243 with a very rough bore.
They are all the same load. The rough throat is filling up with Copper.

That is as close as I could get.
I have shot Bullseye .5 gr, 1 gr, 2 gr, 3 gr 4 gr...... in the 45/70.
I was trying to see how quiet it was, not searching for detonation with the Bullseye, but I can say there was no detonation.

[Multigunner]

Bullseye is cool. I like to put 2.0 grains in a 100 grain WC 38spl. Sounds like a 22 and shoots about 550-600 fps. Not real accurate for me but will thump rats in the barn without knocking holes in the tin if accidentlyt shot.

My rat shooting .38 load was aprox one grain of Bullseye, I used a dot from an old leather belt as a dipper, one of those little cromed dome shaped decorations with a piece of wire soldered to it as a handle. The bullet is a .36 (375) ball swaged to .359 by driving it through a 23/64 hole drilled in a steel slab with a mallet.
I'd seat the ball deep in the case so the powder couldn't move too far from the flashole. I then used Door Eze white silicone grease rubed inside the case neck as a lube.

The load was usable only in a snubbie, not enough velocity to be sure it would clear a longer barrel.
Striking power was about the same as a wrist rocket slingshot. Report was not much louder than dropping a book on a wood floor.

[lwknight]

I shot some more of those 2.0 grain loads yesterday and they were chrono'd at 450-500 fps.
Maybe slower in a warm barrel? The first that I chrono'd were over 550 but, that was with a fresh clean gun and a cold barrel.
I don't know if any of that really matters anyway. JME.

[fecmech]

Uh-huh.


Thus lives on the "Bullseye detonation" urban legend. What about facts?

The US Army loaded a few Billion (B, not M) 45ACP's during WWII, all with Bullseye behind a jacketed 230FMJ at 830fps muzzle velocity, they seemed to work fine. Really, really fine, as a matter of fact. Try to find that load printed today- you can't. Seems that the "specified" pressure they thought they were working at was not the peak pressure later, more advanced equipment measured. Instead of bowing to the reality of Billions (with a B, not an M) of successful WWII loads, they just dropped that listing. After all, that decision only affected hand loaders, not commercial loaders.

Of course, all those Billions (with a B, not an M) of WWII 45ACP loads were with a fresh, new case, not reloads of cases that had been through God-Knows-What.

Bullseye builds pressure quickly (consistently, but quickly), so if somethings going to let go, it will let go. But Bullseye is just doing its job.

So, Bullseye is not the best powder for max or near-max reloads in formerly stressed, partially-unsupported cases, I'll admit that. But the idea that it is occasionally or totally unsafe due to erratic performance or SEE, I don't buy it. Why not? If I was looking for a candidate for SEE, a near-double-base powder in a cartridge practically made for it is the last place I'd start.

-HF

Alliant still lists a load for 230 gr jacketed at 840 fps with Bullseye, in fact they list a higher velocity load for the Gold Dot HP with Bullseye than Unique!
http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/RecipePrint.aspx?gtypeid=1&weight=230&shellid=35&bulletid=65&bdid=194

[lwknight]

Boil it all down without regard to specific cartridge ( always exceptions) bullseye is generally great for anything around 1000 fps or lower even to very low power.
Its not likely that anyone will get good resuls at the high end loads exceeding 1100 fps ( barring 9mm 124 gn) with bullseye.
The 45 acp is kinda unique in that 900 fps is a heavy load and 1000 fps is a light load in other calibers with lighter boolits.

[Clark]

I like 1 grain of Bullseye in 32sw and two gains Bullseye in 38sw.

Those are better off with soft cast bullets.

[HangFireW8]

Alliant still lists a load for 230 gr jacketed at 840 fps with Bullseye, in fact they list a higher velocity load for the Gold Dot HP with Bullseye than Unique!
http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/RecipePrint.aspx?gtypeid=1&weight=230&shellid=35&bulletid=65&bdid=194

Hmm. I'll have to stop complaining. (about that, anyway).

My late-90's Hornady manual doesn't even list Bullseye for their 230gr, Speer 13 has similar load, but Nosler tops out at 790fps for their 230. I've read gun rag commentary that would make such a choice seem criminal. Of course, these are the same folks who refuse to write about the .30-06 because they need you to buy their advertiser's latest and greatest.

-HF

[HangFireW8]

Clark,

You surely do love posting that picture. Not sure what it has to do with Bullseye.

-HF