43 Spanish w/.348 Win Brass Question

[school of mines]

I recently acquired a 43 Spanish Rolling Block which came with dies and brass. The brass has been formed from .348 Winchester brass. My question is should I use the brass or buy 43 Spanish brass? I was reviewing the rim diameters and thickness in the Lee reloading manual and the .348 Winchester is undersized in both rim diameter and thickness. I am concerned about excessive headspace. Does anyone have any experience with this?

Thanks!

:lovebooli

[405]

I know it's done but about every dimension is slightly wrong. When I got my 43 Spanish RB I thought about trying to form some 348 since I had a ton of 348. The more I thought the less appealing it became. I finally broke down and bought some Bertram 43 and some 44 basic that had the correct head and rim dimensions. Never regretted the decision.

[Buckshot]

..............All my .43 Spanish is Bertram but I know there are a lot of folks using converted 348 Winchester. I doubt the headspace is anything to be concerned with using the converted brass.

.............Buckshot

[NickSS]

I had bertram brass when I had a 43 spanish rolling block several years ago. On a wim I sized a 45-70 case and fire formed it in my RB. It was short and I had to watch when I loaded it so that the rim did not slip beneath the rim but they fired fine with the bullet seated out. I would not recommend this but using the brass formed from 348 cases is OK and you will not have a problem. I currently make 50-70 and 5650 spenser ammo from 348 brass as I hav quite a bit and noting to use it in. I have to neck ream the 5650 cases and anneal them but they work jsut fin in My Spencer and save me $1 a piece over what I can buy Starline brass for.

[Mk42gunner]

Buffalo Arms sells reformed .43 Spanish brass that started out in life as .348 Win. It is not as simple as running a .348 into a .43 Spanish die, the outer edges of the rim are pushed forward to take up the excess headspace.

The real problem for me was that the .348 brass was too large at the head of the case and would not fully enter the chamber of my 1879 Argentine Rolling Block. 7/8-14 dies are getting pretty thin by the time they are chambered for a .43 Spanish and I didn't have my Rockchucker yet so I bought the berass already formed.

Robert

[smokemjoe]

Back in 72 I had a reamer ground at work with a pliot to fit the 43 bore, It reamed the 43 Spanish chamber to the 348 case size and blowed out to fit, It kept the case from passing the extractor, Joe

[school of mines]

I just finished tumbling the brass and I believe I have some Buffalo Arms formed brass as Mk42gunner described. The rim looks like it has been formed forward around the outside and the center projects to the rear. My calipers won't fit properly so I can't get an accurate measurement on the rim thickness. The brass chambers fine, so I'm thinking I'll load a couple and see how they do.

Thanks for all of the info!

[TAWILDCATT]

check out 8 mm lebel.some times that works better than 348.
grafs has it.

[bubba.50]

i use the buffalo arms brass in my spanish reformado which has the same base/rim diameter and it works fine. also not as pricy as the sorry bertram brass i tried first. for what it's worth, bubba.

[Pavogrande]

Regarding the use of 348 brass for 11mm spanish --- In the lare 50's early 60's when these rifles first began appearing there was no brass available -- 348 was used by myself and others with at least two methods of compensating for the thin rim -- One, a little jig was made to enable three dimples to be made in the rim making it thicker. Two, bullet was seated long, forcing case against breech face, when fired a new neck was formed which then held case against breech face when reloaded - never ad a problem with either method but it is much easier to buy brass if available. my ha-penny

[Mk42gunner]

school of mines,

You didn't mention what brand of dies you have, so I will relate my experiences.

I have a two die set of Lee dies, no expander to bell the case mouth so I used the expander for a .45-70 and put just a small bell on the case.

If you are using Lee shellholders; get three or four, the top will pull of easily. Use a good quality case lube, I don't know if my sizing die is rough or if the shellholders were just so thin that they didn't have enough strength but I pulled the tops off several of them resizing cases.

The only load I have used is a capacity load of Goex FFg with a card wad between the powder and bullet and the Lyman 439186.

I am going to have to dig my rifle out of the safe and do some playing, I mean research...

Good luck,

Robert

[school of mines]

Mk42,

Thanks for the tips! I have Lee dies and will have to use the expander from my 45-70 as you recommended. I will also be using the Lyman 439186 mold/boolits in this rifle. I will use Swiss 1 1/2FG and see how it turns out.

Thanks Again for everyone's input!

[TNsailorman]

Remember, the .43 spanish is a bottleneck cartridge that will headspace off the rim. .348 or bertrams often have rims too thin and thus are a little off on the headspace. When you get new cases of either, try them and see if the rolling locking block will close on them. If it does, do not size them. Then load with a regular load reduced by 5 grains of powder and seat your lead bullet out until it takes a good push on the rolling locking block to push the bullet into the lead(rifling) to close. This will hold the case back against the locking block while firing. On the .348 you may get a few cases that will split on firing because of the size difference in the case just forward of the rim. But the case that don't split will be fireformed to your chamber. Now is the important part. DO NOT full length size your cases when you reload them. Neck size or no sizing at all and you have correct cases. If you insist on using a full length sizer, back of the die about 1/2 to 3/4 turn so as to make sure you don't set the shoulder back. I never liked the .348 cases used this way but it does work, after a fashion. I have had quite a few of those expensive new .43 Spanish Bertram cases split on firing the first time. It just goes with the territory. About 20+ years ago, I talked to Fred Huntington (the old man) and he cut a special neck size only .43 Spanish die for me. It's worth its weight in gold to me. Works for me. James