Manufacturers of gas checks?

[Daryl]

Hi,

I've been reading much about gas checks. What I gather is that only Hornady manufactures them. Lyman purchases from Hornady. I also see the Gator checks here that an individual apparently manufactures.

I've also purchased one of the FreeChex.

When I look for copper material suitable for gas checks, there seems to be almost no cost savings over just buying copper gas checks. I'm sure the manufacturers must get a much better deal. But, in any case, I'm sure the cost of copper sheet must be a big portion of the cost - so I'm guessing that is why no other manufacturers are jumping in - there must not be enough profit in it.

So, then, the FreeChex was designed primarily to create aluminum gas checks. The savings is to come from the cheaper material.

One of my questions is why have the manufacturers jumped in on this? Why not simply produce aluminum gas checks as a substitute good for the copper gas checks?

I think I would buy them if the worked equally well compared to the Hornady checks. I've not had the greatest success with the FreeChecks because they don't crimp on like Hornady.

What are your thoughts? Would you buy them if they were, say, $15 per 1,000 instead of the $30+ for copper for .30 caliber? I just ordered some of the Gator checks at under $20 to try - but those are all dependent on group buys and not readily available - and will always be dependent upon copper pricing.

[mrbill2]

That's a good question !! Al works for me. Hope we get some good answers.

[StarMetal]

One the answers you'll soon get here is from a myth started on this forum is that aluminum will wear out your barrel faster and more then copper checks. They'll tell you that when it oxidizes that the oxidation is aluminum oxide the same stuff used in abrasives, like sandpaper. So that's how they make sandpaper...corroding aluminum away letting it oxidize and then scrapping that off and making sandpaper....NOT. This is why Winchester used total aluminum jacketed pistol bullets in their Silver Tip line ha ha. I've been shooting aluminum checks for years and see no ill effects.

Yes you see sarcasm here because frankly I'm sick of hearing the same old horse hockey on this matter.

Joe

[oldhickory]

The only problem with aluminum is finding the right thickness. I think that's why you may be having some problems crimping yours, the material may be too thin.

[Daryl]

The only problem with aluminum is finding the right thickness. I think that's why you may be having some problems crimping yours, the material may be too thin.

I've tried a number of things. I measured the Hornady copper at somewhere around .018 to .020 - so I tried to get something like that for the aluminum. I just put two .105 pieces together to punch out a check. The Freechex was designed to be used with up to .014. So, it's pretty hard to get the thick one off. If I had to go through that it would take me about 5 minutes per GC! I have it on a boolit to crimp when I set my lubesizer up with that die. So, I'll see how it seems to hold then. I did try up to .015 and laminations that were slightly over that but still seem loose after sizing. The 7.62 GC shank is about .282 - .284 so, with a thickness of .020 it should be .282 + .040 = .322 and a sizer to .314 should put a pretty good hold on it.. but I'd have thought that .015 or so should have done it. We'll see.

But, those are really details that I think can be worked out. My main question for this thread was how objectionable would commercially-available aluminum gas checks be and why isn't someone making them? And, why does Hornady not have any competition for the copper GC?

Thanks again.

[Tom W.]

I got a FreeChex II in .45 cal, and had to ask for another mandrel, which was sent to me quickly and with no charge. With .014 Al it makes checks all day long that crimp on the bullets just like the copper ones do, and shoot just as well, too. I don't think I'll be buying any more commercial Hornady checks....

[RU shooter]

[QUOTE]And, why does Hornady not have any competition for the copper GC?


Because there are still plenty of people paying the asking price they charge for copper checks.

Tim

[lwknight]

The real price of copper should be about $6.00 per pound or less if you find a rightous supplier. 1 pound of copper will make a way lot more than 1 thousand checks. (pending the size) Only problem is that you might have to buy a large quantity.

After thinking about it, I may have sources to get .015 copper.
If I find anything interesting I will post it for all.

[GBertolet]

Can anyone direct me to a website for Free Chex, where I can get some more info on these?

[Marlin Hunter]

Only if they work.

[Tom W.]

Can anyone direct me to a website for Free Chex, where I can get some more info on these?


They are only sold on E-bay... under reloading dies.

[StarMetal]

Can anyone direct me to a website for Free Chex, where I can get some more info on these?

As mentioned the Free Chexs are on Ebay, but why not instead ask Pat Marlin about his gas check tools. He's a member here and makes a quality tool too.

Joe

[Mugs]

As mentioned the Free Chexs are on Ebay, but why not instead ask Pat Marlin about his gas check tools. He's a member here and makes a quality tool too.

Joe

Like Joe says check out Pat's ck. maker. No hammering fits in your loading press.
Mugs
IHMSA 5940L

[peter nap]

As mentioned the Free Chexs are on Ebay, but why not instead ask Pat Marlin about his gas check tools. He's a member here and makes a quality tool too.

Joe

That's an easy one Joe. I haven't gotten an exact price on the Free Check because I refuse to buy off of ebay, but it looks like Pat's tool is about double the price. I'm sure it's a better tool but I don't shoot that many GS bullets.

[JIMinPHX]

Aluminum checks worked well for me in a microgroove 30-30. I saw no performance difference between copper & aluminum in that gun.

The aluminum fouled the living daylights out of a chrome lined barrel in another gun. It was really hard to clean out of there.

I got most of my aluminum out of aluminum Bud Lite beer bottles (not cans). The aluminum bottles have much thicker walls than the cans do. I've also used aluminum flashing from Lowes with good results. Just bring your calipers with you if you go to buy flashing. The thickness of flashing varies quite a bit. I can get copper sheet from a local metal shop called Industrial Metal Supply Co. They sell it by some sort of a "pound" spec., which makes things kind of confusing. They do carry the right thickness for checks, but I don't remember what they called it. I think that Pat Marlin was also selling copper strips or sheet or something over on the swappin & sellin section of the board. You might want to give him a shout if you don't have a good local source for copper sheet.

[StarMetal]

That's an easy one Joe. I haven't gotten an exact price on the Free Check because I refuse to buy off of ebay, but it looks like Pat's tool is about double the price. I'm sure it's a better tool but I don't shoot that many GS bullets.

Yup, Pats tool is much much better made. Notice I said made. The Freechex does work. Me I'd rather use Pat's die in my press then the way Freechex works. If you think Pat's tool is high think how fast you're pay it back making checks. Checks are way too expensive.

Joe

[StarMetal]

Aluminum checks worked well for me in a microgroove 30-30. I saw no performance difference between copper & aluminum in that gun.

The aluminum fouled the living daylights out of a chrome lined barrel in another gun. It was really hard to clean out of there.

I got most of my aluminum out of aluminum Bud Lite beer bottles (not cans). The aluminum bottles have much thicker walls than the cans do. I've also used aluminum flashing from Lowes with good results. Just bring your calipers with you if you go to buy flashing. The thickness of flashing varies quite a bit. I can get copper sheet from a local metal shop called Industrial Metal Supply Co. They sell it by some sort of a "pound" spec., which makes things kind of confusing. They do carry the right thickness for checks, but I don't remember what they called it. I think that Pat Marlin was also selling copper strips or sheet or something over on the swappin & sellin section of the board. You might want to give him a shout if you don't have a good local source for copper sheet.

I shoot aluminum checks out of both chromemoly barrels, stainless barrels, and chromed barrel. I get no fouling at all, nothing just powder carbon. What kind of lubes you using?

Joe

[JIMinPHX]

Joe, I was using Lyman Super Moly or LLA. One or the other, not both at the same time. Velocity was in the 1400-1800fps range when I had the problem in the chrome bore. The 30-30 was good at 2300fps with the Moly Lube.

[StarMetal]

Joe, I was using Lyman Super Moly or LLA. One or the other, not both at the same time. Velocity was in the 1400-1800fps range when I had the problem in the chrome bore. The 30-30 was good at 2300fps with the Moly Lube.

Jim,

What I've found with my chrome bores is they are immensely easier to clean, even with jacketed. With cast they can be cleaned merely with a patch. Interesting you get aluminum fouling. Must be those the beer can aluminum or the coating they put on it.

Joe

[JIMinPHX]

Chrome bores always cleaned up easily for me too...until I tried the aluminum beer bottle checks in them.

[StarMetal]

Chrome bores always cleaned up easily for me too...until I tried the aluminum beer bottle checks in them.

Shot the daylights out of my 7 twist AR Colt HBAR at high velocity and get nothing in the bore....nothing except powder carbon. It's gotta be those beer cans. My checks are from hardware flashing.

Joe

[felix]

Beer cans are made of scrap aluminum. You can get a good batch, but you cannot count on it. For example, the alumina slag from Noranda aluminum is delivered to can manufacturers. ... felix

[Daryl]

Can anyone direct me to the source for Pat's check maker?

Thanks



Like Joe says check out Pat's ck. maker. No hammering fits in your loading press.
Mugs
IHMSA 5940L

[Mugs]

Scroll down under Active Group Buys you'll find him there.
Mugs
IHMSA 5940L

[Black Wolf]

Freechex works good. I have had one problem though. In trying to get a Gas Check to stick on my .314" bullet (.303 brit) I found that .0125" flashing was too thin and wouldn't crimp tightly. So I measured a Hornady GC and bought some .020" sheet aluminum - which is close to the thickness of a Hornady GC. Well, the GC punched out ok but one side was lop-sided - meaning, it wasn't even all the way around edge. It was like one side of the edge got squooshed harder. So far, I haven't had much luck with those .020" thick GCs due to this - I think it's making the bullet wobble because it's not evenly balanced. I used the same load with copper GCs and shot well.

Now I have used .0125" on .30 cal bullets and it worked fine...but those are just too loose for my .314" bullets.

More experimenting and trial/errors I suppose.

[StarMetal]

Read this carefully. All caliber gas checks (talking factory Hornady) are not all made out of the same thickness material. Number two...all gas check shanks on the bullet are not all made for the same thickness gas check. Taking Lyman moulds for example....hardware flashing will work from 22 caliber up to 6.5. I don't have a 270 mould but probably it's more close to the 7mm mould and that's where the next thickness goes up. So whatever brand of check maker you have, you have to determine what thickness of material to use. Don't be surprised if you buy a check maker and fine that the thin materials won't work because I'm telling you here.

Joe

[Tazman1602]

I wouldn't because I don't know enough about the properties of aluminum to make that decision based on price when it comes to MY barrels....................sounds like a good idea.

I've noticed the Freechex tool and talked to Pat Marlin about his tool also.

Hands down even if it's more expensive Pats tool wins --- HE answers emails................and it's machined much better from what I can see in the pictures.

..........now if wife would let me drink the beer out of the can before I made gas checks out of it I'd have to say yes I would......

[pistolman44]

I clicked on his name at members products and an advertisement for log splitters poped up. Does he still make this tool? Is there another I can go to get to see his GC maker tool?

[mrbill2]

This one works for me. http://www.lsstuff.com/patmarlin/checkmaker.html

[MT Gianni]

Hi,

I just ordered some of the Gator checks at under $20 to try - but those are all dependent on group buys and not readily available - and will always be dependent upon copper pricing.

You can order any size Gator check from the mfg, group buys just give you a better price.

[Daryl]

You can order any size Gator check from the mfg, group buys just give you a better price.

Where is the Mfg? I could not find it Googling?

[Cactus Farmer]

Someone here was working on a check maker that made a GC with every stroke of the press, but my CRS kicker in and I can't remember and failed to find it with the search mode.
Anyone remember this?

[Lloyd Smale]

still waiting for pat to make a 44 and 45 cal version

[Marlin Junky]

still waiting for pat to make a 44 and 45 cal version

Second that motion... 44 first, please. :-)

MJ

[wistlepig1]

Jim, I made an Electric cleaner from a web sit and it would be interesting to use it on a bore with Al in it. On copper it works like a charm. I tested it by cleaning my 22-250 with copper out, then Hoppies 9, about 2 hrs total time with the SOAKING time, the used the electric clearner and was surprised by how much I got out. It cost about $10. to make. I would be happy to lookup the sit and give it to you if you are interested. martin

[mrbill2]

"It cost about $10. to make. I would be happy to lookup the sit and give it to you if you are interested. martin "
Martin
I'd like to see the link to that sight and I'm sure others would also.

[wistlepig1]

MrBill. Here is the site

http://eightbits.home.att.net/copclean.html#TOP

The one I made is a 2 cell fashlight that is Mod with a neg and *** leads, drill two holes, take the leads out. I would strongly suggest you limit the run time to 15 min's at a time. Most of this is talked about in the articles. After you see how simple this device is I think you will be suprized. If you or anyone else has question just PM me and i would be happy to help.

I have used this in my guns for alittle over 2 years and no problem. I last thing, put 3 or 4 pieces of elecrtic tape up and down the ROD and for sure at the muzzle. If picture would help I can do that if you need. martin

[Daryl]

Mr Bill,

That article is really neat - I think I'm going to give it a shot. Does this do anything for lead removal?

[wistlepig1]

Daryl,
I have used it on leaded barrels alittle and I will say that it worked "ok". I have limited experence with lead but with jacketed stuff it makes a Big Diff.

If you do use one, two things, limit your run time to 15 min., and on the rod that goes into the barrel put 3-4 pieces of electircal tape spaced up and down the lenght and for SURE one at the muzzle. If I can be of help just let me know.
martin

[Daryl]

Thanks, I'll watch those things. It does look incredibly simple once you get it figured out and put together.




Daryl,
I have used it on leaded barrels alittle and I will say that it worked "ok". I have limited experence with lead but with jacketed stuff it makes a Big Diff.

If you do use one, two things, limit your run time to 15 min., and on the rod that goes into the barrel put 3-4 pieces of electircal tape spaced up and down the lenght and for SURE one at the muzzle. If I can be of help just let me know.
martin

[HamGunner]

No matter what check maker one uses, if the mold throws the bullet under or oversized, the shank size will no doubt be the over or undersized. If a check does not fit tight onto the shank then the mandrel punch or similar part of whatever tool can be polished down to make the check smaller diameter on the inside. Same for the outside of the check. The die for the thicker material, if the material is being extruded and not coming out perfectly round or even on each side might need to be polished larger. Unless one uses the exact thickness and type of material that the check maker is designed for, it might have to be tweaked a bit to use other diameter material or to fit other than standard sized bullets.

Got to be smarter than the machine. I know that not all have the mechanical aptitude nor experience to alter a tool, so best to leave it alone unless certain of the outcome. But, I always read of someone whining about their tools not working as advertised. The tools can not do something that they are not designed to do. The design has to be altered or the tool and material used as designed.

[wistlepig1]

Monkey Dumb simple device, works for me and hope for you. If you try it tell all of use what you think good or bad! And it's cheap too!!!! cheap as# martin

[HamGunner]

In answer to the thread question about buying aluminum checks if available commercially. Yes, I would buy them if they were cheaper and as good a fit as commercial checks made out of copper. I would buy silver or gold checks if they were cheaper and fit my bullets. But not all commercial checks will fit all my bullets. Making my own to custom fit my bullets is not only a necessity, I find it enjoyable. Plus I know that I won't run out if the commercial check supply dries up.

[jbelder]

Hi,

I've been reading much about gas checks. What I gather is that only Hornady manufactures them. Lyman purchases from Hornady. I also see the Gator checks here that an individual apparently manufactures.

I've also purchased one of the FreeChex.

When I look for copper material suitable for gas checks, there seems to be almost no cost savings over just buying copper gas checks. I'm sure the manufacturers must get a much better deal. But, in any case, I'm sure the cost of copper sheet must be a big portion of the cost - so I'm guessing that is why no other manufacturers are jumping in - there must not be enough profit in it.

So, then, the FreeChex was designed primarily to create aluminum gas checks. The savings is to come from the cheaper material.

One of my questions is why have the manufacturers jumped in on this? Why not simply produce aluminum gas checks as a substitute good for the copper gas checks?

I think I would buy them if the worked equally well compared to the Hornady checks. I've not had the greatest success with the FreeChecks because they don't crimp on like Hornady.

What are your thoughts? Would you buy them if they were, say, $15 per 1,000 instead of the $30+ for copper for .30 caliber? I just ordered some of the Gator checks at under $20 to try - but those are all dependent on group buys and not readily available - and will always be dependent upon copper pricing.


How do you figure? I just picked up a 12" x 8' roll for 54 bucks I'm guessing I can get around 4500 or so. To me thats way cheaper than 36 bucks per thousand. But I'm also using Pat Marlins check maker which is far the best in my opinion. I figure I can make my own for half the cost. Also I won,t shoot aluminum in my guns but thats just me. Plus Pat's crimp on just like the Hornady's do.