Paper Patching the 6.5 Lee Cruise Missle to 7mm

[Bullshop Junior]

In the Next few days Lord willing I hope to try paper patch out of my 7mm/08. I Have two choices of boolit.
1-Lee 6.5 Group Buy Cruise Missile
2-Lee 6.5 Group Buy Karabiner
I Tried rapping paper around the 6.5 boolit, and it came to .282", the groove diameter of my rifle.
So any opinions? I was gonna try the cruise missile first. I have a 1/9" twist in my rifle, so I think that it will stabilize.
Has any one tried Paper patching 6.5 to 7mm before? How did it work?
Any opinions or ideas welcome!

[wmitty]

How much smaller than land (bore) diameter can the projectile be and still give acceptable level of accuracy?

.264 dia. boolet with say .276 " land dia. (just guessing) for the 7-08 barrel?

I'm looking at patching .311" Lyman 31141 up to .319 for a .32 Win Spec with a .314" land dia. so I'm interested in hearing your results.

[303Guy]

Well, I hope they work for you! I'll be awaiting your test results with interest.

How did you do your wraps and what paper did you use?

Any pics?[smilie=1:

Good luck!:drinks:

[Nrut]

Bullshop Jr.
I just got a 7-08 a few weeks ago and am trying to fit the 7mm, 135 gr. LEE Soupcan to the rifle.. Right now the base of the PP boolit is below the neck shoulder junction which I read is a no-no for PP but we'll see.. I may have to taper the nose to get the boolit base back into the neck...Most likely I'll wait until next spring to range test.
Good luck with your Cruise Missle..

[Zeek]

Dear Bullshop Junior:
Your 7mm barrel should stabilize that PPCBoo so long as it is no longer than ~1.3". Let us know the results, please, and include the alloy hardness, especially for any load running under minute-of-hippo-tush.
Regards, Zeek

[bearcove]

I bought a 6.5 cruise missle mold for just that. I'm gonna ream it out to something larger. Probably try .274 to start then go a bit larger if I need. It might be small as it casts now. Be worth a try though, let us know how it works.

[Bullshop Junior]

FAILURE!
The cruise missile did not even hit the 100 yard target, and the Karabiner was grouping about 6", and was making slightly oval holes.
Maybe tomorrow I will try sizing down, then PP 270 boolits, if I have a lee sizer the right size.
BTW-The rifle shoots good. After trying PP I tried some 120gr Hornady V-Max for the first time. Worst group was 1.25", and best was all in the same hole.

[303Guy]

Dang! That's the wrong result!:sad:

If you happen to have any leftover cruise missile castings you could cut of a portion of the bore-ride section and test them again to see whether it was the boolit length or the patching thickness that caused the problem.

Umm.... what were the loading details? Velocity? Pressure guestimate?

I have had very poor test results but always with contentric, round boolit holes suggesting that in my case boolit stability was not the problem.

[docone31]

You need to go to .290.
Were it me, I would use a cigarette roller for this. It seems to make a rock hard patch that sizes easily.
We are talking smokeless here, not BP.
I do not know what dia they drop from the mold, but, I would at least size it down to advertised mold dia. I believe, this makes feathers on the downwind side of the sizeing on the lube lands and this helps hold the patch in place.
My technique with the .30s is to size to .308, wrap twice with computer printer paper, then size down to .309. I get a good, dense, wrap.
I feel, this makes a good jacket for down bore riding.
I use start data for the jacketed loads of the same weight. In my .303 British, I use 44.4gns of 4895.
I would start there with your patching. Twist the tails, snip off when dry. I use just a touch of Turtle Wax to lube through the sizeing die. I do not use lube on the finished patches. The sizeing really makes the sides of the patching shine! That is all I use. Too much wax and the patch becomes unstable.
Good luck.
That is what I would do.
When I do my .25-06, That is what I will do.

[Zeek]

. . . My technique with the .30s is to size to .308, wrap twice with computer printer paper, then size down to .309. I get a good, dense, wrap. I feel, this makes a good jacket for down bore riding. I use start data for the jacketed loads of the same weight. In my .303 British, I use 44.4gns of 4895 . . . .

Dear Docone31:
Can you also please provide your estimated alloy hardness. That is a major factor, and most folks on this site make no mention of it, which makes it very difficult to really give your approach a try . . . have to re-invent the wheel, sort of.
Thanks, Zeek

[Bullshop Junior]

Dang! That's the wrong result!:sad:

If you happen to have any leftover cruise missile castings you could cut of a portion of the bore-ride section and test them again to see whether it was the boolit length or the patching thickness that caused the problem.

Umm.... what were the loading details? Velocity? Pressure guestimate?

I have had very poor test results but always with contentric, round boolit holes suggesting that in my case boolit stability was not the problem.


I tried to boolits, and both failed.
I was shooting 42gr of IMR 4831.
It was to cloudy today to set up the crony.
I think the boolit was to small. I was running them in a .285" die, and the paper was coming off about half of the the time.
I think that the 270 boolit will work better, and I hope to try it soon.

[Bullshop Junior]

Were it me, I would use a cigarette roller for this.

Were it me, I would use a cigarette roller for this.

I don't have a cigarette roller, and don't want to spend money on one.

[303Guy]

This may not relevent here but I have just experienced flame cutting on half a patched boolit base. Hard alloy and suspect breach of the patch on the boolit base edge.

Another point which may not be relevent is a patched boolit that left no visible mark on the paper but on firing left healthy rifling impressions on the core and that at low velocity/pressure. Soft alloy.

Well, I guess you are a busy man so you wouldn't want to spend too much time experimenting with all the variables. (Pity though! [smilie=1: ) In the meantime I would like to repeat my test that produced flame cutting but can't 'cause I chose to switch to beer!:mrgreen: :drinks:

[Nrut]

BSJr..
I didn't have any success with grossly undersized boolits patched up either when trying to use .314" boolits sized up for my 8X57 several years ago.. If the as cast size of your .270 boolit is .277 or larger and you can get your boolit patched up to throat dia. I think you'll have a fighting chance.

[Bullshop Junior]

BSJr..
I didn't have any success with grossly undersized boolits patched up either when trying to use .314" boolits sized up for my 8X57 several years ago.. If the as cast size of your .270 boolit is .277 or larger and you can get your boolit patched up to throat dia. I think you'll have a fighting chance.


I think it drops at .278".
My gun is very tight, with a groove at .282" There is almost to throat. When I push a boolit upside down in a fired case using the chamber the boolit base it flush with the case mouth, unless I trim the cases back about .0010" from the trim length.

[Nrut]

Man that is a short throat and tight groove!
And your sizer is .285"
I am stumped!
I don't see how you are going to fit a 2X wrapped PP boolit in that chamber and still have the core casting larger than bore dia.

That would leave the dreaded GOP (glue on patch) which is a computer label wrapped around the boolit one time (in this case).. Avery brand labels wrapped once would give you +.006 to your .278" boolit dia, for a wrapped dia. of .284".. I still think the butt of your boolit will be below the neck shoulder junction..
If you have any shipping or computer labels .003" thick cut a patch long enough for one wrap. No need to cut on a angle as a butt wrap will work, if this works at all. Wrap a few "tight" between your thumb and fore finger, put them in a tin can and set the can on another can so the boolits don't get to hot on your wood stove.. This will dry the glue so the paper departs at the muzzle..
If you can get the boolit base into the neck that would be good..
For your load use Hodgdons 60% rule using H4895 ie. 60% X max. load gives you starting load.. I start a few grains above the starting load..Keep raising the powder charge until you get some accuracy.
Will this work??
I don't know..:shock:
I tried it when I first started PP spring before last and my accuracy was terrible but I figured out later I was sizing my core casting down to small before PP back up.. I went to 2X wrapped conventional PP and haven't tried GOP since but will in the future on special problem situations when I get some time.
I learned about this method on Veral Smiths Forum on the GreyBeard website..
There maybe another way to skin this cat but I am already in enough trouble posting the above so I'll keep to myself for now..:roll:

If someone else comes along and can help you get a conventional PP boolit to fit go with what they say..

[Zeek]

I think it drops at .278".
My gun is very tight, with a groove at .282" There is almost to throat. When I push a boolit upside down in a fired case using the chamber the boolit base it flush with the case mouth, unless I trim the cases back about .0010" from the trim length.
I am looking at the chamber print for the standard 7mm-08. The throating (forward of the usual 45-degree-Basic step-down from the chamberneck) is a ~1/8"-long cylinder of 0.2845"-to-0.2865" diameter transitioning to a 3-degree-Basic leade cone. Therefore, your rifle has a waaaaay-strange throating if the GC of a 0.284"-diameter GCCBoo (inserted GC-first) hits the leade cone (if there IS one) so very far short of 0.125" in front of the case mouth (ignoring trim-to-length considerations). ~~~> Nothing you couldn't clean up by hand using the right throating reamer. First, though, consider making an impact casting using soft lead, as follows.

Buy a 3-foot section of W-1/0-1 tool steel round rod stock from your local machine shop. Insert it into a fired case until it bottoms-out and mark at the casemouth, then cut if off there and flush-file-and-deburr the cut ends. The short rod goes into the case. Cut off ~1/2" of 5/16" diameter extruded lead wire (available from fishing supply places) or just use ~1" of the 1/4" diameter lead wire. For the 5/16" stuff, continually rotate it between light hammer blows until it will insert into your muzzle cleanly. With the muzzle pointed up, chamber the case/short-rod assembly and then drop the lead wire piece down onto the top of the rod-in-case (which will act as the anvil). Insert the longer piece of rod from the muzzle. Hold that rod at the muzzle and continue to tap on the rod's end with a stout hammer until the lead is pooched-out to completely fill the throating (hint: if you raise the rod a few inches and then drop it back down the bore, the rod will rebound once you have complete fill-out).

Remove the case/short-rod assembly and knock out your finished impact casting with the long rod. At that point, you can SEE what your throating looks like.
Regards, Zeek

In order to win the war, fight the battles that will achieve that end, and avoid those that your enemy so kindly offers you.

[Bullshop Junior]

One other thing. I one time shot 270 boolits out of it thinking they where 7mm (we have two identical moulds in the two calibers and shot it at 100 yards. Accuracy about 1.5". I thought that was good, till I realized that I was shooting 270 boolits......
That was full power loads.

Now saying that, I tried a 270 patched boolit and there is not way I am going to get that to chamber.
So for now PP experimenting is done with my 7mm/08.

[Bullshop Junior]

Man that is a short throat and tight groove!
And your sizer is .285"
I am stumped!
I don't see how you are going to fit a 2X wrapped PP boolit in that chamber and still have the core casting larger than bore dia.



I know, and it is a factory savage too!:veryconfu

And it wont go in the chamber.

[leftiye]

BSJ, Size em down to fit your groove diameter after you wrap 'em. Believe it or not you could even go with 7mm boolits and wrap 'em, then size them. The paper compresses and become like manila folder paper (just an illustration). If the paper sizes all that it can, then the lead sizes down. Viola (sp ya think?) groove diameter patched boolit. Docone does this all of the time. Lube the patch a little (not a lot) before sizing.

[docone31]

Very well described!
The patch does get very hard, and stable. I size it to .001 over groove.
My mix is either pure wheel weight, water dropped, or 50/50 with 2%zinc.
The castings with the patch size right down. In time, if they have not been loaded, they do grow .001. I have 50 I have been too lazy to load that grew that much.
I have probably by now done several thousand this way. I love it. I have fully loaded the magazine with the patched loads. No issues there.
I do not crimp, I just use the Lee FCD to tension the neck.
I get real good confetti on firing.

[Bullshop Junior]

Ok, I might try that