Ruger wiggles, Smith sits still

[shooting on a shoestring]

Dry firing my 4 & 5/8 New Model Blackhawk, the sights wiggle during trigger pull and dip as the hammer hits the frame. Dry firing my K-frame 4 inch Model 67, the sights sit still during both trigger pull and hammer fall.

The BH has a good trigger job and breaks as clean and creepless as the Smith. In both instances I use the same push-pull technique. The Smith sits still for me, the BH wiggles around.

I think that explains most of why my groups with the K-frame are 2 to 3 times smaller than I can shoot with the BH.

[Catshooter]

Interesting observations.


Cat

[geargnasher]

Is that one-handed? I find I shoot SAA-style plowhandle pistols much better with one hand than with two, just let the gun float in the air and let the dynamics sort themselves out. When I use two hands the extra physics and tension seems to make the gun jerk horribly as compared to a full-size grip as found on S&Ws.

Ruger's hammers weigh about twice what a comparable Smith's hammer does, plus the transfer bar in a Ruger seems to add to lock time. It has been recommended to me to change the springs in a Ruger to fix the lock time issue.

Gear

[dubber123]

Three things come to mind. 1- How much overtravel does the Ruger have Vs. the Smith? 2-, compared to the S&W, the locktime on the Ruger is well, not fast. More time on the way down, more time to move. 3-, the "hump" at the top of the DA grip helps lock it in you hand more securely.

Consider an extra power mainspring for the Ruger to speed up lock time, and possibly an overtravel stop. Maybe some "grippier" grips on the Ruger? Good luck

[smkummer]

with Colt single actions. Still love them today but I was doing my best to work an accurate load out of my 44 special 5 1/2 Colt SAA. I finally after many careful reloads was able to get 5 shots in 1 3/4" at 25 yards. The very FIRST group I shot with an old Colt trooper 6 in. .357 and target stocks was better than that. Now I have officer model and python groups that measure under 1 in.. That is when I knew the plow handle grip and long hammer arc were unchangeable items when it comes to single action limitations. I also agree that you have to let the recoil ride with a plow handle. just my observations I have had under 2 in. groups with my super blackhawk but the original stocks were replaced with pachmayrs to tame recoil.

[GP100man]

DO a little searchin on the ruger forums , some shooters shim the rear site to "stabileize" it & seems I`ve heard talk of a "lightening" hammer , which is a skeletonized hammer to speed up lock time.

2 cent worth , spend it anyway ya like!

[shooting on a shoestring]

Further investigation. I just dry fired my 7&1/2" .45 Colt Blackhawk. It sits almost as still as the Smith. Drastically less movement than the 4 & 5/8 Stainless .357 BH.

In all three I used my two handed hold with a push-pull technique.

Now the 7 & 1/2" BH was the one I broke the aluminum grip frame off a couple of years ago and replaced it with a brass grip frame I got from a gentleman on this board. The brass grip frame is slightly wider than the standard BH grip frame and is noticably fuller in my hands. That has to help. Also that long barrel has greater momentum and leverage to dampen movements of the frame.

I've spent almost two years trying to get this four inch SSNMBH .357 to shoot well. Its dimensions are great. Sights are great. Trigger is great. Tried short boolits to long boolits each with fast to slow powders. Played with alloy hardness and neck tension.

Shooting rested (all different position, resting the barrel, resting the frame, the trigger guard, under the grips, under wrists, eveything but C-clamped). I occassionaly got a tight group, but could never get repeatable tight groups. The fact that I got random tight groups precedced and followed by bad groups from the same load, made me start thinking the problem was me b/c I am the most variable variable in the system (when shooting the same load, getting a random good groups). Sure enough. Repeated dry firing shows me I just do not hold the revolver motionless while I pull the trigger and when the hammer falls. I do hold other revolvers still, but not this one.

I have tried a Hogue grip on the SSNMBH a few months ago. They made the revolver sit very high in my hand and made it impracticalbe to reach the hammer with the same hand holding the revovler. Also, I could not determine they grouped better.

[Bucks Owin]

Well, seems you answered your own question. It's that dang 4 5/8" "belly gun" barrel! Dennis (see avatar) :kidding:

[shooting on a shoestring]

Just got back from the range. I intended to compare the 4&5/8 BH to the Model 67 shooting the same TL158 each at roughly 800 fps. It didn't happen. I wound up shooting a halfdozen loads in the Model 67 and didn't get around to shooting the BH.

It was a bit blustery, but the 4 inch Model 67 turned in mulitple 25 yard sub-2 inch groups with 3.4 gr Bullseye pushing TL158, 358091, 358477 and Lee 140 SWC. Some 5.0 gr Herco loads with 358091 and the 140 SWC barely stayed in the two inch range, but a got a couple of each just under 2 inches. They were moving on at just over 1000 fps.

I shot mostly from the Keith postion leaning my back against a pole, bracing two handed across my knees.

I have struggled for two years to get the BH to shoot 2 inches and have only a couple of lucky groups to show for it. Less than 2 months with the Model 67 and I have more sub-2" groups in one sitting than two years with the BH.

As a kicker, I had 3 people sharing the range shooting Glocks at about 10 feet at man-size sillywets, that kept an eye on my 25 yard targets with cute little 2 inch groups appearing in front of my little old revolver. That made my day.

I'll shoot the BH sometime when folks aren't looking.

[44man]

The hammer making the BH move is common. Nothing at all to worry about and it has never affected my shooting. All of my revolvers have over power springs so you should see how they move. :bigsmyl2:
My BFR's with 26# mainsprings can do an inch at 100 if I do my part with my vision.
That should not be the cause of poor groups and I would not worry about it.
Hold your BH VERY firmly and don't let the grip "roll" in your hand. Each different "roll" will open groups like crazy.
I love Pachmeyer grips on all of mine because they save my knuckle. They are narrow enough for a good feel, I don't like fat grips.
I don't like the Bisley either, seems as if an ounce difference in grip pressure will move a boolit. The old hog leg always gives me better groups.
Yeah, I'm strange! :veryconfu

[shooting on a shoestring]

44-Man, Thanks, I think.

I'm very surprised to hear your take that the hammer dip is not a problem. I've been approaching my revolver shooting like rifle shooting, and that is to hold the gun still as possible during the trigger pull and until the boolit leaves the barrel. I suppose your position would be that the hammer fall dip is repeatable, and hence is the same from shot to shot, moving your gun the same and hence not loosening up groups.

I definetly do have a problem holding on to the BH consistently. The little .38 Smith shoots so easy, doesn't move around, and is so easy to hold, and hits so much better than I've been used to. I'm getting spoiled to it.

[44man]

Grips are funny things and I never had a problem with the S&W in a .357 but the model 29 was a different story. I had a BUNCH of them all the way to the 10-1/2" silhouette models, can't remember the exact length so bear with me. They could not be beat for accuracy and I was shooting 1/2" groups at 50 meters with them----BUT, only if I did not put the gun down. Picking up the gun again would still give me a 1/2" group but it would be 10" from the first group. I did the same on the silhouette range by hitting the first five chickens at 50 meters dead center. Clear and ground guns so they could set targets and the next five chickens were total misses. THIS WAS SOMETHING I COULD NOT CURE.
Now the SBH with Pachmeyer grips never gave a problem. I shot Creedmore and as target elevations changed I could shift my grip to get on target. That had no effect at all and I would hit where aimed. If my knuckle was getting sore, I would shift my grip and still not miss. Anyway I shot a lot of 40's with the SBH and won Ohio State with 79 out of 80. I was lucky to get 20 with a S&W. 1/2" groups were up in the air somewhere.
The Bisley is somewhere between the S&W and the hog leg, no change in grip allowed. That ounce difference in pressure or a thousandths inch change in your grip will ruin groups.
If you think a Bisley is better for recoil, you are mistaken. They beat me.
So far the Pachmeyer grips on the SBH and my BFR's has proven to be perfect. Other rubber grips do not come close and slippery grips like fancy wood, etc are hard to control.
So many of you that are shooting poorly might need to look at your grips and how you hold the gun.
Many hate the factory grips on the SRH but I will say with just a firm grip I was able to hit pop cans at 200 yards with a scope. Change the grips and you might ruin how you shoot.