Range Report: Lee 200 gr. / .308 Win.

[Kraschenbirn]

Haven’t posted for awhile but should have a little more time for the next couple of months.

Yesterday, weather was pretty crappy…low 40s, gusty cross-wind, intermittent drizzle/rain showers…but stopped by the range anyway to chrono a couple of loads. First one – 311291/H4895 in my Garand – needs more work: functions well but 100M accuracy is more like “minute of pie plate.”

Second load, however, turned out to be a genuine “keeper.” Lee 311-200-1R cast from Lyman #2, water-dropped, sized .310, and loaded over 26.0 gr. H4198 in milsurp cases (TW 68) with Win. LR Primers. Chrono recorded 1943 fps avg. MV with 21 fps SD for 10-round string.

First pic is the 10-shot chrono group at 100M. The “stray” at 10:30 was a called flyer and the other nine rounds went into 1.030”x.440”. (Incidently, due to rainy weather, rifle was not sandbagged, just rested on an old towel folded over the top of my range bag.) Second pic was last five rounds of the day (drizzle was turning into steady rain)…200M, no sight adjustment, holding on top edge of SR-1 target center...and measures 2.040”x.085.”

Rifle was my pet Rem. 700 with a 24” McGowan barrel (1-10 twist) and a Burris 6X-18X scope.

[Ben]

If you're lucky enough to have a Lee , 200 gr. RN with a nose dia. of .3015 - .302 " and bands casting .3105 - .311 " - - then you're in business ! !

This bullet has always shot well in a variety of .30 cal. rifles.

[Kraschenbirn]

Ben...

Yeah, from what I've heard and read, the noses on this design tend toward the small size. Mine, after lapping with automotive rubbing compound to smooth out the tool marks, casts .301+ at the nose and .3115 at the bands.

I believe my mould for this boolit is fairly recent production - bought it from Midway about six weeks ago and, prior to that, it had been flagged "out of stock" for quite a while. Originally purchased with my pre-war K-31 (original barrel) in mind, all I did after it arrived was deburr and lightly lap the cavities.

Bill

[Ben]

Bill:

By the looks of those groups that you're shooting with that bullet, I'd tend to follow the old adage " If it isn't broke, don't try to fix it."

That is some REAL GOOD SHOOTING !

Ben

[selmerfan]

Hmm, that looks like a keeper! I might have to pick up that mold for running in my .308 and .30-06!

[lead Foot]

I too had that mold it measured .3125 and nose .303 ~ would'nt fit the gun so I gave it to friend who now shoot's it in his .303 Brit. unsized. I might buy another now after that impressive display. Well done Kraschenbirn. If that was shoot with open sights :holysheep we will all be doomed to second place.
Lead foot;

[Ricochet]

I had one that measured about the same as Lead Foot's. Traded it off to another board member for a skinny nosed one to use in my K-31. I think that boolit with a .298" nose should be nearly ideal for the K-31. Haven't yet gotten around to trying it, though.

[GrizzLeeBear]

Hey Ricochet, was wondering if you had tried out the skinny mold yet. The fat one shoots well in my 30-06 Rem. 700.

[Ricochet]

Great! I'm looking for an opportunity to try out those skinny ones.

[Bloodman14]

I have some Lee 200 grainers if anyone is interested; shoot me a PM.

[kirill]

Hello,

I've tried these in my Savage 308 with an ER Shaw barrel. To get them to load I have to seat them so deep that the rear lube groove is mostly below the neck. At 2400 fps 9 went into a 1 by 2 inch group but had 6 fliers.

Has anybody else had to seat the Lee 200's this deep? Maybe my barrel has short throat.

Kirill

[kirill]

Hello,

In my previous post I "misspoke". It was the lube in the shank above the gas check that was below the neck not the lube groove.

If anybody else has had to seat them this deep, did that degrade accuracy?

Thanks

Kirill

[x101airborne]

May I ask..... Since you are shooting out to 200 yards, how does the spin drift effect your load? For my -06 at 100 yards with the 180 grain lyman round nose bore rider, I would hit center and at 200 yards, I would be 6 inches low and 6 inches right. I find this to be an unusable load since I have the regular opportunity to shoot out to 300+ yards. For certain applications, this would be huntable, but when you only carry one rifle and may shoot 5 yards to 500, then have to guess spin drift, wind drift, drop, and distance, I am just not there. I would like to know how it worked for you. From the looks of where your group (excellent, by the way) landed, I would say you are experiencing close to the same results.
Thanks.
Trey

[Kraschenbirn]

<May I ask..... Since you are shooting out to 200 yards, how does the spin drift effect your load?>

Yup, sure does but the drift seems pretty consistent...like if I correct about 8 (1/4 min.) clicks left to center up my groups @ 100M, I'll still be in the 10-ring of an MR52 target @ 200M.

Bill

[jimr]

using that same bullet & powder load i found by adding a dacron filler my groups were much tighter and about 2ins. higher then without.

is that a proven load or a one time group, just curious . and by the way i'll bet if you add some dacron to the 4895 in the garand you'll be much happier. jim

[TCTex]

That is some fine shooting!!!

I am working up loads right now for my 308, thanks for sharing the info!!!!!

[Dthunter]

Krashinbirn:

The spindrift doesnt have an appreciable effect at 200 yards yet.

When I shoot out well past a 1000yds (1200-2000yards) it starts to become very noticeable.
At one mile (1760yards), my 300 Win Mag has about 30" drift to the right. (right twist) in near perfect windless conditions.

I shoot my 200 grain, Lyman 311299's out too 600 yards so far. I still have some more load development to do, but I havent noticed any spin drift. I have to bias my scope mount angle by 10 MOA or so to make my set up effective to 650 yards. Funn stuff!

A boolet/bullets path is actually not perfectly straight. Generally speaking, a bullet/boolet continually pitches and yaws to some degree "all the time during flight". The better the stability, the less the pitch and yaw experienced by the projectile. Consequently, straighter/more predictable flight.

The bullets/boolets path is normally a tight corkscrew pattern around/near the line of site. The more unstable the bullet/boolet flight, the more unpredictable the path.

Brian Litz explains some of this phenomenon in his book "APPLIED BALLISTICS". Well worth the price of purchase. Very interesting and informative.

Hope this info helps someone.
Have fun, and straight shootin!

[Kraschenbirn]

...is that a proven load or a one time group, just curious . and by the way i'll bet if you add some dacron to the 4895 in the garand you'll be much happier. jim

1) Guess you could call it proven...my post starting this thread was back in November of '09 and I'm still loading it 2 1/2 years later.

2) According to my old notebook, that 311291/4895 load DID have a dacron filler. Never actually did get that boolit to shoot well in the Garand but the RCBS 30-165-SIL (also with a bit of dacron) will print consistent 2-2 1/2 MOA from the same rifle if I do my part...which is just about the same as it shoots with my handloaded equivalent of the old M72 Nat'l Match load using 175 gr FMJBTs.

Bill

[geargnasher]

Not spindrift going on there. Spindrift is predictable, affects mostly windage, and changes depending which direction you're shooting.

Sounds like typical groups to me at 200 yards at 2400 FPS. Back off to 1900 and they'll improve greatly. Getting even 2 MOA accuracy out of a ten-twist .30 caliber at 2400 FPS is more work than most of us want to do unless you paper-patch them.

Gear

[Dthunter]

Gear knasher: X2!

Spin drift is "not significantly present" at this range.

1:10" twist makes it near impossible to maintain decent accuracy much past 1900-2000fps.

It took me some time to get my 1:12" twist .308winchester up to 2424fps ave.
Although it shoots better at 2250-2350 fps. (311299,200 gr.) with IMR4831 & IMR4350.

Dacron filler is a good idea with slower powders. It typically reduces standard deviation and extream spread. But also tends to boost pressures a small amount. I think the dacron tends to aid in sealing gasses behind the boolet during the firing process. As well as stabilizing the load density/burning characteristics.