Saeco 301

[Marlin Junky]

Anybody enjoy using SAECO 301? How does it cast and what diameter boolits does it drop in say, WW metal seasoned with tin?

MJ

P.S. Also, I was wondering if those SAECO 4 cavity molds are any good... they can be special ordered through Midway.

P.P.S If anyone has ever compared SAECO 301 to RCBS-30-180FN from a match bullet stand point, I'd love to hear their exploits.

[Trailblazer]

I used the Saeco 301(new to me) in the 30-30 at the last silhouette match. The design used to be called the RG-4. I have never used the RCBS bullet but the Saeco bullet can be very accurate. E. H. Harrison spoke highly of it in the NRA Cast Bullet book.

From WW and maybe 5% linotype mine casts about .309" to .310" on the driving bands. A .310 size die just touches in places. And it casts .299" to .300" on the nose as it is not round. It happens to fit my 30-30 fairly well. The best load I have tried so far in the 30-30 produced a 2.4" 5 shot group at 100 yards with receiver sight and globe front sight. Four of those were in 1.28". These were not perfect bullets as they were from my first casting session with the mold and the mold developed lead deposits in the cavities. I expect the nose to fill out a hair more when the cavities are clean and maybe they will be rounder. Then I am going to try it in the 30-06 too. I expect good things!

Molds vary of course and I have heard of a couple that cast small. You pays yer money and takes yer chances.

[Marlin Junky]

Not round... hmmm. What temperature is your melt during casting? I'll bet you're casting at less than 750F. Are you casting with a ladle or a bottom pouring furnance?

What do you think you are gaining with the addition of 5% Linotype to wheel weights? Can I assume your wheel weights are of the clip-on variety only? I can see adding 5% 50/50 solder but not 5% Linotype.

MJ

P.S. Does anyone have a BC for SAECO 301, AKA RG-4?

[Trailblazer]

Like I said the mold built up deposits in the cavities. I need to clean it and cast some more. The areas without deposits measured larger than the areas with deposits. And I don't know what the temp is. I use a Lee 4-20 bottom pour pot. It is set fairly high. I don't remember where. I bought a Lyman thermometer years ago. It was never right and I never bothered with a thermometer again.

What I gained with 5% LT is I didn't have to empty the pot. I had about a half a pot of 10% LT mix already in the pot for some other purpose. I just topped it off with WW and carried on. The WW's are whatever came in the bucket. Mostly clip on with a few stick on weights.

I know a 2.4" group isn't very impressive. It impressed me because the rifle was very dirty. Another load with the Saeco 311 that shot good before was scattered all over the paper. I had shot several matches without cleaning and the last match I used WC852 which left heavy fouling just in front of the chamber. It didn't burn to well with the lighter bullets. Quite a buildup of greasy powder caked on there.

I will cast more up in the next couple weeks. Might do it tomorrow, if I have time. I will let you know how they drop from a clean mold. There will be less LT this time!

They drop from the mold at 205 grains and go 210 with lube and check.

[kodiak1]

trailblazer I am next to positive that the stick on ones have zinc in them!!!!!
Don't melt them throw them in the reject pile that sh*t will kill you, plus it really screws up your mix. Zinc is bad bad stuff.
Ken.

[Marlin Junky]

Trailblazer,

Well I'm going on faith alone here 'cause I ordered a 301 from Midsouth this afternoon with no other knowledge of it other than what I could find on the Internet today... which wasn't much. If I get real lucky and it drops .3105" on the bands and .3005 on the nose like my RCBS 30-180FN, then I should be in business. If it disappoints me like #352, then I've got yet another mold to store.

MJ

P.S. As far as the deposits in your mold are concerned, if you soak your mold in Hoppes #9 for a couple days and the deposits don't simply brush away with a soft toothbrush, then I'd be inclined to believe that those deposits are indeed zinc.

[D.Mack]

KODIAK 1 Most stick-ons are almost pure lead, But you are right some are not . To tell the differance twist them, if they twist they are lead, if they don't I don't care what they are, I dump them. D.M.

[Buckshot]

[QUOTE=Trailblazer] I know a 2.4" group isn't very impressive. QUOTE]

.............I don't mean to hi-jack Marlin Junky's thread, but I wanted to interject a PERSONAL observation. I do not think that 2.4" group is necessarily bad. You mentioned pot luck alloy. I am assuming 'run' boolit's & thrown charges in like headstamped 30-30 brass. All fired from a levergun although you don't say. I would be satisfied with that, especially since 4 went into less then 1.5", but even that is beside the point.

Heck, take out a ruler and look at 2.4" and visualize that at 100 yds. Doesn't take but a couple thou sight mis-alignment back on the line to made a bigger difference.

If I'm just gonna load some shooting ammo (and considering distances and targets) it is rare indeed that I will scale boolits and powder charges. I'm opening myself up to flyer's and groups no doubt larger then more time and effort spend on reloading would yield.

Let me hasten to add I'm just your average cast lead shooting junkie. I've never competed in an organized benchrest deal shooting cast boolit's but I've read enough to know what all is involved. I've jumped through the hoops and spent the time to produce the finest ammunition I was capable of on several occassions over the years to satisfy myself that I can do it.

However I am seldom willing to spend that kind of time for the shooting I do the most of. Add to that that some days I just seem to do better then others :-)

................Buckshot

[Trailblazer]

Good luck on the mold, Pat. You never know until you drop some bullets from it. My Saeco 311 casts .301" to .302" on the nose and right at .310" on the bands. It shoots good to. What does your #352 cast at? I got one with the #301 and it casts about perfect for my 356 Win. It does look like somebody reamed the bore riding portion somehow. Not a real beautiful job but it seems to shoot OK. One cavity is better than the other and if I get anal I might mark a cavity so I can sort them. Good enough for a hunting bullet the way it is though.

Nothing wrong with my alloy as I cast from three other molds with it and they came out fine. What went wrong is poor mold cleaning. These four molds were from my latest mold purchase. All were heavily coated with grease. I didn't use my normal mold cleaning methods on the Saeco 301. Usually I wash them in white gas and then again in acetone. That works well. The NRA Cast Bullet book recommends denatured alcohol. It's a joke - don't believe it! I cast a LOT of wrinkled bullets before I got anything resembling a decent bullet. Then I had deposits in the mold. I let it cool a little and cleaned it with a brass bore brush in a drill and tried again. It immediately developed deposits again, although not as bad. These molds had light rust patches under the grease and the deposits collected in the spots that are rust stained. I washed the other molds in white gas and and acetone and then boiled them in detergent. Much much better. They cast good bullets immediately and no deposits.

I am with you all the way, Buckshot. I ain't no bench rest shooter either and my methods would horrify many here with their thermometers and hardness testers etc. I don't weigh charges either. I look for bullet fit and a suitable powder for the desired velocity which generally runs 1800 to 2000 fps and bullet fit and then make sure the bullet fits and find that minor variations in alloy produce minor variations at the target. Other than load testing all my shooting is off hand. Holding and squeezing are a lot more important than MOA accuracy for me. Someday when I have the time I might push the envelope and see how accurate I can get. Until then, just having fun!

[Antietamgw]

I've been pretty lucky cleaning with plain old Brake Clean. I store my molds in ammo cans with a desicant pack. I put them away warm and havn't had to resort to oil or lube on my iron molds. The desicant pack is about 3-4" square and I put it in the oven maybe once a year at low temp to dry it out. Even after lapping or clean up of a new mold the Brake Clean seems to do a good job of cutting the lube as long as the mold is disassembled. I'll be interested in hearing how the Saeco works out for you - it's a design i've thought of for some time. If I were to make a mold I believe I'd try that design as it appears pretty uncluttered and (I think) would be easier to make for first attempts.

[buck1]

The SAECO MOLDS ARE MY FAVORITE......Buck

[DLCTEX]

All the "stick on" weights I've found from my sources here in the Texas panhandle are pure lead, as my tire man says they must be to be formed to the shape of the wheel so they will dependably stick in place with the sticky tape. I too only worry about accuracy to minute of prarie dog, jack rabbit, coyote, etc. Even less when supplying ammo for teen agers, who seem to enjoy laying down a "field of fire" more than minute of angle accuracy.

[Marlin Junky]

Trailblazer,

The only other reference to SAECO #352 in this thread is the one in my post. Is "...What does your #352 cast at?" directed at me? If so, the bands come out at .358 +/- .0005". I tried lapping the gas check shank and trailing band out but ended up just polishing them with 320 grit on a boolit lap. I doubt I added even .0005" to the diameter. I decided to store the mold and wait for a tight groove .35 to come my way or sell/trade it for something else. I shot a few through my .360+" 336A (1951 vintage) and the groups were pretty sloppy at 75 yards. If I don't see consistent SUB 2 MOA potential in a rifle/boolit combination I loose interest pretty fast because I like to shoot my rifles at silhouettes after the load development phase is complete. Carbines are another matter.

MJ

P.S. You guys sure know how to wander off topic and now I'm guilty of same. I sense bad influences here. :-)

[redneckdan]

Even less when supplying ammo for teen agers, who seem to enjoy laying down a "field of fire" more than minute of angle accuracy.


Have them start loading their own ammo. They'll break that habit real quick like. At least i did...:roll:

[Trailblazer]

Marlin Junkie, I must confess I got you confused with Pat Marlin. Sorry about that.

My Saeco 352 casts about .359", maybe a hair less. It wouldn't hurt a thing if it cast another thousandth bigger. I just started loading them so I don't know how they will work out.

[Marlin Junky]

Trailblazer,

No problem, but that's Junky with a "y" not an "ie" :Fire:

Sometime before the next time I cast with SAECO 352, I'm going to tap the alignment pins out a tiny bit in an effort to get more diameter. I really had high hopes for this boolit in my .35 Remington because it seems like an ideal heavy-weight (240 grains) for this cartridge.

MJ

[sundog]

Marlin Junky, unless you have a way to accurately measure the pin movement, it might be more conducive to try beagling it first. That is 100% non-destructive. Just an idea. sundog

[bobthenailer]

saeco moulds are my favorite, i have 9 - 4 cavity and 6 - 8 cavity, and 3- 2 cavity, all work excellent!. bob

[David Henzler]

I'm looking for a nice RG-4 mold. Don't want to spend a bunch on it. But it needs to be unaltered, and clean. Preferably with handles.:cbpour:

[Le Loup Solitaire]

I should have bought an RG-4 back in the day when they were still made. Years later I got a 301. The dimensions are right with the body at .310-.311 and the nose at .301-.302. I use it in 30-06. It is a "bore-rider" and shoots very well in my 03-A3 with its 2 groove barrel as the broad lands positively guide the long nose. It also shoots very well in my 1917's where again the five groove rifling has lands that take up a lot of the bore diameter and also make use of the long nose. The quality control on the Saeco molds is still pretty good. LLS

[runfiverun]

the 352 must be specced at the close to 359 as mine is a hair over 3585 with a 4/6 alloy.
the beagling option is a good one,as is the lapping.
slow going with the leaded steel/mehanite molds.

[kirb]

I have a 301 and the RG4 great boolit mine cast 311 driving bands the 301 cast out at 302 the RG4 nose is 301 shoots great in my 300 whispers, 30-06 and my K31 sets a little deep in the k31. My alloy is 50/50 ww and lino except for the whispers

Kirb

[runfiverun]

that would splain whos those were, i found in the backstop.
:lol: