1 1/2 Wrap Patch

[barrabruce]

Anyone had any luck with a 1 1/2 wrap patch??

Any way to get even side thickness. (concentric to the bore)

How do... you ..go about it??

Just thinking.

I have tried with some sort of reasonable success. Less than 2" at 100yrds.
But haven't full explored this wrap.

I don't here much of it.

Maybe indexing might help :redneck:

Least its easy to do and no dicky ends to meet up just so.

Bruce

I'm a problem child...acdc

[montana_charlie]

Any way to get even side thickness. (concentric to the bore)
I don't see how you could...
CM

[RMulhern]

:groner::killingpc:confused:

[1874Sharps]

Bruce,

I admire your thinking outside the box and looking beyond conventional wisdom. However, I must say that conceptually I do not see how it would work out very well. Alignment with the bore is critical (consider how many BPCR paper patchers use patched boolits that are bore diameter so that bore alignment is perfect).

[Kenny Wasserburger]

I am not sure you can call that thinking outside of the box. More like not thinking at all, lights are on no one at home comes more to mind.:kidding:

Anyways I see Mulhern got it right!


Dast Lunger

Wheezing bad today.

Next infusion at 1pm tommrow.

[docone31]

You know, it makes sense.
Since it will only be in one direction before firing, and it will put the space somewhere in a circle during flight, it all makes sense.
Helps save on paper also.

[Lead pot]

:coffeecom Well I guess if you shoot sling shot distance or bow & arrow it wont matter

[rhead]

I do not understand the physics behind the hoped for gains over going ahead and using two full wraps. Explain please.

[bcp477]

I have to agree with others here...... the "old-fashioned" two-wrap technique ain't broke...... so why do we have to fix it ???? :groner:

[bearcove]

OK, half has one thickness of paper, half has two thicknesses of paper.

Concentric?

[303Guy]

One has to think outside the circle here. One and a half concentric wraps is easy. Spiral wind it with a binding overlap on each wind. I've done it. It should work with the right sized boolit and might even work with just the overlaps being groove Ø or above and the single wrap being bore Ø or above. I only tested this in my 'test tube'.

The spiral groove left by the overlap should be reasonably concentric in total. The patched survived the trip down the bore and came of in small pieces at the muzzle.

I used this sample for a different trial but it shows how it was done.

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-351F.jpg

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-353F.jpg

This was a different wrap but still the same principle and shows the grooves (and it's the only pic I can find!)

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-102F.jpg

[pdawg_shooter]

Again, why. Two wraps has work for 150 years or so, is easy to apply, and dont take that much more paper!

[303Guy]

Again, why.Aah, well, yes .... curiosity I guess.
At the time my prime castings were two big to take two wraps of notepad paper and cig paper wasn't working out so I was just experimenting with different stuff and ...
I also wanted to see whether a single layer of paper would hold up.

[docone31]

With the new Prez, new rules, laws of physics have been rewritten.
Of course it wll work.

[montana_charlie]

One has to think outside the circle here.
The spiral groove left by the overlap should be reasonably concentric in total.
The spiral wrap results in a concentric bullet because there are two thicknesses of paper on all sides of the bullet.
When measuring the outside diameter, it is identical to having a properly patched bullet...with two solid wraps.

It does not duplicate the condition the o/p asked about where one complete side of the bullet's circumference is covered by only one wrap.

CM

[softpoint]

I goofed up and cut some a little too short on a paper cutter for my 45/70 boolits. A bunch of 'em. And while they were more than 1½ wrap, they lacked ⅛" at least going the full second wrap. I loaded some and shot them anyway. They grouped at about 2 to 2½ inches at 100 yards, which is about as good as that rifle and load does anyway. (Marlin lever):coffee:

[bcp477]

Generally, in my experience, a gap of (up to) perhaps 1/8" in the end of the final wrap doesn't matter. I've shot lots of bullets like this, side by side with those wrapped completely. I've seen no discernable difference in accuracy. Only MY experience on the matter, though.

However, that is a long way from deliberately wrapping only 1 1/2 times. I can't see why anyone would even entertain this......

[303Guy]

Maybe so but if someone tries it and finds it makes no discernable difference then I would like to know about it out of interest. But why entertain the idea? Fun I guess. And curiosity! You know, I take a lot of trouble getting my patch ends to meet just so - no gap and no overlap allowed. A bit anal really! Now I am discovering I can relax a little, thanks to this thread. (Although I dare say I won't actually relax - I just like the look of neatly mated 'ends'! :mrgreen:)

[barrabruce]

Sorry but been away for a couple of days...

The reason why I asked is that Iv'e seen it in several photos of paper patching.
Don't remember where but it seems the people thought that was the way of the old west.

NO don't get all up 'n get yer blood boiling about it.

Tis easy to do though.
No great angle of dangle needed
Quick and...above all.....cheap.
No concentration required.

[smilie=w:

Thought that them 'ol times had it wrong and could never figure out how they could get it to work.
Mind you 2" at 100 yrds anit bad if you we using open sights and shooting at things besides bits of paper.. Still gunna put the hurt on most things you would be aiming at.

Still I may run a few indexed "just to see if they perform better than higgil'd de pigil'dy" For ****s and giggles as the Yanks say.

:D
Barra

[rhead]

How does the accuracy compare to two wraps? I have heard 2 inches at 100 yards with 1 and 1/2 wraps. what did that bullet do in the same rifle with two wraps? Best developed load vs best developed load? Not necessarily the same load although that data would also be interesting. Does it take less powder per 100 fps? Give more accuracy? Is longer range stability enhanced or deteriorated?

[barrabruce]

No chrono R head.
But loaded up till it was slapping me around somewhat.
With "hard as the hops of ..ell" cast 165 fp commercial stuff sized thou a hand drilled sizer and whacked through with a hammer and punch.
All gyro-ed and landed a bit wonky keyholed nosey in no particluar regularity though the target.
Best
Groups were 1 1/2" 2x wrapped 100 yrds seated normal seating depth.
Started to wizz of into the scrub with gay abandon with 4-5" groups at 150 yrds.

2" with 1 1/2 wrapped affairs at 100 yds same seatring depth.
Didn't try no further as I thought it no good.

Seated to the lands didn't yeld as good with more flyers and less consistancy for some forsaken reason.

They just made more pressure and slapped me around off der bags ....till... I wasn't gunna put no more stink'n powder in that stupid thing.

Around startin loads for jacketed and a touch more ... my rusty trifle (thuddy thuddy) liked the most and only bucked and booted more with less refinment in the hitt'n what yer aim'n at department. with more powder throwin in
Ohhh I found that I had some errrrhh ahhh ... leading issues after a 100 or so rounds.

Don't know if it acuured from the first few to till mostly all the way though the test but it didn't seem to hurt any.
looked clean enough at the time!!!
Didn't seem to bother it much anyhoo!!!

I have now become "re-fined" and more "gentry like" and now sport a set of fancy drilled out dies for my press that once were for a rifle I have no longer.

Honed and everything.
Concentic to the press ..who knows but me boolits shoot all nose first now.
Worser accuaracy with a 309180rnd mold.thou.

Best I got so far is 1 3/4" at 100 yrs.velocity @ 17-8000 fps in me rusty triffle (30-30)
But the bullet shoots around moa ... ish plain lubed @ 1100 fps mark.

I'll try both types of wraps when next at the range and be playing @ 1500 fps

Maybe it'll like that!!


Will sumit my official report when done


Bruce:wink:

[softpoint]

Fun and experimentation is why most of us PP anyway, Not many of us couldn't afford a single box of jacketed bullets to hunt with! Try 'em and see. I've heard that one wrap works as well as two, given you can reach the correct size. I've tried that too, but I have a devil of a time getting one wrap to stay put on the boolit, and tearing them when trying to twist the tail, too especially if they are a bit wet.:razz:

[barrabruce]

Yeah I'm working with cig papers for the 2x wrap cos it seats too deep if I don't and I can just get away with 1 1/2 wraps of 2 thou paper. with my mould in this gun.

If I though I could seat the bullets deep in the case and get away with it I'd try more conventional stuff.

Bruce
Ohh soft point I could afford to load a box of conventianl stuff to hunt with ..but I would hurt too much to aimlessly shoot merrily at the range having fun and practice thou.
So me guns would just sit there and become safe queens. :( :(

[303Guy]

Exactly! It beats sitting there watching the telly! :drinks:

[barrabruce]

Well I did try a few different things today.
Tried to get a faster powder to burn in the 1500 fps range.
Windy and gusty veriable.
2x cig papers about 2" at 100yrds
The 1 1/2 wraps about 3" at 100 yrds.
So I will not continue any more along this line.

So I proved to myself that yes the formula for success is not in 1 1/2 wraps for me.

My greaser load I shot @ 1 1/4 " in these conditions.
Best break through was I forgot to change the dipper back to the best of what I could come up with.
Loaded some 2x PP with out any lube and at 100 yrds had 3 nearly touching and two beside each other 1" higher.
Has good potential but the un lubed ones are very easily cut when loading or seating.

Barra

[303Guy]

Barra, are using cig paper for its thinness? (I did and actually gave up on it, opting for sizing or casting a core small enough to accept notepad paper) But there are so many variables - we could have heaps of fun experimenting (I suspect my current alloy is too hard for the design I am using - we'll see).

[barrabruce]

303 yep. For the thinness.
When I win the lottery I'll buy me a lathe and knock one up that will suit better.
For now just have to make do.

Maybe Santa will bring me one....Iv'e been good Honest..well I would be if'n he'd give me one.
Till I forgot how to anyway.

Barra